It’s educate, AGITATE, organize

edit: putting this at the top so people understand the basis for this:

You may well ask: “Why direct action? Why sit ins, marches and so forth? Isn’t negotiation a better path?” You are quite right in calling for negotiation. Indeed, this is the very purpose of direct action. Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word “tension.” I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, so must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood.

Letter from Birmingham, MLK

  • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
    105·
    7 months ago

    Just because someone does not want to vote for Biden does not mean they want Trump to win.

    Oh, yes it fucking does. That’s what a FPTP system implies. That people failed High School Civics and seemingly still managed to get their degree isn’t a refutation of this.

    That is a reductive argument and its the root of the issue with the system in the US. Picking the lesser evil is not a viable method for electing people to positions of power.

    It’s the only means; it’s just more naked under FPTP which effectively reduces the issue to two, instead of three or four.

    What if the dems also nominated someone openly fascist, not just genocidal?

    It’s not the case, so suck it the fuck up and work against fascism.

    If it was the case, the right decision would be revolt.

    Would we pick the least fascist, fascist? The Democratic party needs reform, and unlike the Republican party they might actually listen because they at least say they will. Its either that or were already in a fascism and were being gas lit by the democratic party to think we have a voice.

    Being told that voting strategically for the ‘no’ vote in an election that is effectively a referendum on whether or not America should become a fascist state is the only real choice is not ‘fascism’, unless you define fascism as ‘reality’.

    • infinitevalenceEnglish
      48·
      7 months ago

      I find this situation unacceptable, I will not be held hostage to the democrats because they cant be bothered to enact real reform when they should have, nor when they bent over backwards to let the court be stacked by fascists.

      Were here, because of them, the republicans have been crystal clear since basically Nixon that their goal is a white christian fascist state. I cannot and will not continue to reward a do nothing party when they manufactured this situation to force me to vote for them because the “other guy” is worse.

      I also will keep fighting fascism, but I will NOT pick up the democrat’s flag and wave it as though I support them.

      If not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump, then its the Democrats fault because they ran Biden, not mine. I will vote my conscience, and I will vote based on the best evidence in-front of me.

      If the Democrats want me to vote for them, they know where I am, and they are more than welcome to reach out and talk to me and listen.

      • TigrisMorte@kbin.social
        51·
        7 months ago

        Liar. At no point could anything more like “real reform”, regardless of what you mean by the vague term, get passed. You are making excuses and sound far more like you are pushing a narrative than supporting a position.

        But perhaps I am too harsh. Please do tell of this “real reform” so we can understand your issue. Be specific and include detailed explanation as to how this thing could have been done at any time in the past four decades.

        More likely however, you’re agitprop project apathy third party is a fail.

        • infinitevalenceEnglish
          15·
          7 months ago

          We can start with recent history first:

          https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/01/21/filibuster-voting-rights-manchin-sinema/ The democrats have not had the balls to stop filibuster abuse

          https://www.npr.org/2018/06/29/624467256/what-happened-with-merrick-garland-in-2016-and-why-it-matters-now The Democrats did watched as a justice appointment was stolen, and did nothing substantial.

          https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/democrats-used-rail-against-dark-money-now-they-re-better-n1239830 Remember Citizens United, and how we all knew that it would open the flood gates to dark money… Well now that the Democrats are on the receiving end you will notice how silent they are about any campaign finance reform beyond lip-service.

          What about the two most important redistricting, where were the democrats in protecting voting rights and fair elections? The Heritage Foundation enacted a plan to sweep red leaning people into key positions throughout the US in 2000 and again 2010.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REDMAP https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/685691 https://www.vox.com/22961590/redistricting-gerrymandering-house-2022-midterms

          So much of this goes back as far as the 1920’s https://history.house.gov/Historical-Highlights/1901-1950/The-Permanent-Apportionment-Act-of-1929/

          So, what real reforms do I want, and have I been pushing for at local to state levels?

          1. Money is not speech, and individuals can donate, but corporations should not be able to do so.
          2. First Past the Post always produces a 2 party system, we need to switch to something like ranked choice, or other voting system where my vote counts, and i can vote for candidates who I actually want to win.
          3. I want redistricting to be non partisan by law, and proportional universally as was the intent in the constitution. If that means that we need to expand the house (which we do) to keep at the 30,000:1 ratio defined in the constitution then we should do so.
          4. I want voting right to be treated as rights. Automatic registration, paid national voting holidays, and overturning felony disenfranchisement.

          Its crazy, that I would ask the Democratic party to enact actual democratic policy that protects, and encourages citizen participation.

          • TigrisMorte@kbin.social
            4·
            7 months ago

            “have not had the balls”, you mean Votes. They have not had the Votes.
            “watched as a justice appointment was stolen”, again you mean, didn’t have the Votes to do anything to stop it, Senate being in Republican hands and all.

            You are either an idiot or total agitprop. There is no third alternative.

            • infinitevalenceEnglish
              22·
              7 months ago

              I would guess idiot because I have no clue what “agitprop” is.

              I am having a hard time understanding why you are attacking me, and my level of intelligence rather than providing evidence or reasoned arguments to better help me understand why my positions may be invalid.

              I dont disagree that they did not have the votes, and that is the problem, they never have the votes when they need them, and never use them when they have them. The Democrats are a loose coalition and calling them a party is laughable.

              If they want my vote they have to earn it, because every single election they pull the same shit saying that this republican is the most evil. They did it with Regan, with Bush Sr, with Bush Jr, and again with Trump. And yet somehow the most evil always shows up the next election, and nothing changes. Having a most evil is how they maintain power, and is a requirement for it to continue. If the Democrats really cared they would have already made this type of fascism impossible without having to beg and plea with the population that this time is different, and this time we just have to win to save the country, and maybe, maybe if we beg enough we can make a difference this time…

              Maybe there is a third alternative, maybe you have Stockholm syndrome and are in love with your jailer.

              • TigrisMorte@kbin.social
                2·
                7 months ago

                I’d suggest until you do, don’t talk about politics because you’ve no clue what you are spreading as these are not your ideas but those fed to you. https://www.britannica.com/topic/agitprop ag·it·prop
                /ˈajətˌpräp/
                noun
                noun: agitprop; noun: agit-prop

                political (originally communist) propaganda, especially in art or literature.
"agitprop painters"
                • infinitevalenceEnglish
                  11·
                  7 months ago

                  Money is not speech, and individuals can donate, but corporations should not be able to do so. First Past the Post always produces a 2 party system, we need to switch to something like ranked choice, or other voting system where my vote counts, and i can vote for candidates who I actually want to win. I want redistricting to be non partisan by law, and proportional universally as was the intent in the constitution. If that means that we need to expand the house (which we do) to keep at the 30,000:1 ratio defined in the constitution then we should do so. I want voting right to be treated as rights. Automatic registration, paid national voting holidays, and overturning felony disenfranchisement.

                  So, these are not my ideas and they are being fed to me, by who? Also yes not a single one of them is my idea they are concepts that I have found through research, discussions, and deliberate thought.

                  You keep attacking me personally but providing no rational rebuttal to any of the references or points I have made. I really am open to adjusting my opinions when provided with better evidence or better arguments (logical not emotional). I really dont understand what you want from me, do you want me to just vote for democrats because Trump is evil? Do you want me to just vote because you think every vote counts? Do you think I have an agenda to get people not to vote for Biden because I disagree with his support of Netanyahu?

                  Could you please take a moment to stop attack and help me understand?

            • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
              13·
              7 months ago

              “have not had the balls”, you mean Votes. They have not had the Votes.

              Willingness. They haven’t had the willingness. They would rather protect their Jim Crow era excuse for inaction than protect abortion, trans people, and democracy itself.

      • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
        52·
        7 months ago

        I find this situation unacceptable, I will not be held hostage to the democrats because they cant be bothered to enact real reform when they should have, nor when they bent over backwards to let the court be stacked by fascists.

        Oh, cool, you will oh-so-bravely volunteer minorities to be killed because you won’t be ‘held hostage’ by the democrats.

        If not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump, then its the Democrats fault because they ran Biden,

        “I don’t agree with the only group of people large enough to be viable in the election on their compromise coalition candidate; I should get to choose the coalition candidate!”

        not mine. I will vote my conscience

        Apparently your conscience says “If I check the box that says ‘throw away my vote’, I’m not responsible for the millions of minorities that will be killed because of the candidate I allowed in by doing so”

        Great conscience you got there.

        If the Democrats want me to vote for them, they know where I am, and they are more than welcome to reach out and talk to me and listen.

        How very egotistical of you. If we lose the election, I hope you’re prepared to smile at every one of us in the camps and say “Sorry, but the Dems just didn’t reach out to me; what was I supposed to do? Support a coalition candidate against fascism?”

        • infinitevalenceEnglish
          34·
          7 months ago

          I dont think you get it, I can’t vote against any of these things, they are not options in my state. I dont get choice, we did not have a primary, the democrats are NOT viable in my state.

          My plan is to stand between the fascists and my neighbors who are identified as part of any “other” group. Fascism already runs my state, and they are just waiting for the rest of the country to get on board.

          The only choice left to me is to physically risk my life and the life of my family, because even protesting is against the law in my state. So when it gets to that point, it will be what I have to do.

          • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
            31·
            7 months ago

            I dont think you get it, I can’t vote against any of these things, they are not options in my state. I dont get choice, we did not have a primary, the democrats are NOT viable in my state.

            If they were, it wouldn’t matter - you made it clear that you won’t be ‘held hostage’ by them if your vote WAS the difference between fascism and non-fascism. What a heroic stand you’ve made in favor of fascism!

            The only choice left to me is to physically risk my life and the life of my family… So when it gets to that point, it will be what I have to do.

            How convenient it is for every would-be martyr that martyrdom is the only option they’re willing to go through with, and not any of the long, boring, tedious, thankless work the rest of us do day after day to stop things from getting to that point. If we succeed, you don’t have to do anything except crow about how nobly you were ready to sacrifice yourself. If we fail, we won’t be in any position to demand you follow through on your rhetoric.

            because even protesting is against the law in my state.

            I somehow doubt that.