By that token though, are there any true leftists alive or dead that ever existed on planet earth? The issue with such an ideological purity test is that it keeps shifting around, forever trying to distinguish the pure and correct ones from those on the periphery who are somehow worse than those entirely outside bc these at least should have known better. I’m not even saying that you are wrong - obviously there’s a spectrum and obviously some people are more along it than others, but I’m saying that that entire mode of thinking is problematic in the practical sense. Example: isn’t my very own message hypocritically doing exactly this, and I would have done far better to have been more accepting of your words? 😜 So it’s like the trolly problem: not meant to find a practical solution, just something to consider in case it’s fun to do so.:-)
(in my head, I like to think that “real liberals” simply have no representation in politics right now, or ever, but then the opposing argument to that is that the purpose of a system is what it manages to accomplish so… I cannot in good conscience continue to do that)
None of the working class has representation in government. Our government represents capital, bankers, and corporations. All of which have convinced voters there are only 2 options for which right wing corporate owned party they want to select.
Possibly the difference being which set of “traditional values” are being upheld. Still, this take ignores a lot of details, chiefly that the two are nowhere close to being equally so.
e.g. right now would it be fair to say that black people are roughly considered to be ~4/5ths of a person?
If so, conservatives want to return that to being perhaps 3/5ths, while liberals want that to remain 4/5ths, and leftists want that to be expanded to 5/5ths. Both only look right-wing with respect to the POV of being at the left, which we are currently not, since mainstream America is shifted so extremely right-wards.
By that token though, are there any true leftists alive or dead that ever existed on planet earth? The issue with such an ideological purity test is that it keeps shifting around, forever trying to distinguish the pure and correct ones from those on the periphery who are somehow worse than those entirely outside bc these at least should have known better. I’m not even saying that you are wrong - obviously there’s a spectrum and obviously some people are more along it than others, but I’m saying that that entire mode of thinking is problematic in the practical sense. Example: isn’t my very own message hypocritically doing exactly this, and I would have done far better to have been more accepting of your words? 😜 So it’s like the trolly problem: not meant to find a practical solution, just something to consider in case it’s fun to do so.:-)
There is nothing purity about it. Liberals are more aligned with Republicans than they are leftists.
Sigh… fair point:-|. I hate that it’s true, but…
(in my head, I like to think that “real liberals” simply have no representation in politics right now, or ever, but then the opposing argument to that is that the purpose of a system is what it manages to accomplish so… I cannot in good conscience continue to do that)
None of the working class has representation in government. Our government represents capital, bankers, and corporations. All of which have convinced voters there are only 2 options for which right wing corporate owned party they want to select.
Possibly the difference being which set of “traditional values” are being upheld. Still, this take ignores a lot of details, chiefly that the two are nowhere close to being equally so.
e.g. right now would it be fair to say that black people are roughly considered to be ~4/5ths of a person?
If so, conservatives want to return that to being perhaps 3/5ths, while liberals want that to remain 4/5ths, and leftists want that to be expanded to 5/5ths. Both only look right-wing with respect to the POV of being at the left, which we are currently not, since mainstream America is shifted so extremely right-wards.