Trump freed 1500 criminals who wanted to kill elected officials in a terrorist-style seige of the capital.
But yeah, go punish a national hero.
US Government wants to kill a guy for politcal reasons.
Killing someone is exactly how you get a really fucking angry crowd who will remember his name seek revenge.
I think there’s even a word for it. Let me go ask my friend Marty R.
If Luigi Mangione get killed he will live forever as a martyr of the workers. His name will forever be etched into history and a new wave of revolutions will arrive, a working class united against the rising tide of fascism.
You’d think Trump would be aware of the martyrdom argument. Maybe not.
Question: Will “The Government’s most solemn responsibility is to protect its citizens from abhorrent acts” be on the gates to the concentration camps?
The wealthy will make an example out of him. Meanwhile, they will continue holding up Daniel Penny as the right kind of extrajudicial murderer.
Viva la révolution? 🔪
Vive* la révolution (français) ou viva la revolución* (espagnol)
Oui désolée vous avez raison, mais… por qué no los dos? lol
No le entiendo a tu español amigo
I combined French and Spanish in my first comment by accident. I did it intentionally in my response to the correction. The first part is French and says “yeah sorry, you’re right, but…” and the second part is how I’ve seen “why not both” used in Spanish. 2x the revolution, you know?
I’ll show myself out.
Good. They should try to get the death penalty which will put the jury under the maximum pressure to nullify.
I wonder if some of the legal fund can be used for public service announcements to educate the public on jury nullification. IIRC judges don’t like to hear that kinda talk in court.
I hope you’re right, but would bet against nullification actually happening either way.
Even if they find him guilty, he could be pardoned after the revolution.
Im betting trump personally assigns Eileen Canon to this case to ensure democracy is 100% dead and no jury verdict will be allowed
Nullifying it federally doesn’t matter if he gets life without parole in New York anyway.
No, but state nullification will still matter. And there are few New Yorkers who wouldn’t nullify in this case, I feel. Being in NY.
Anecdotal of course, but I’d nullify and am from NY and most ppl I know would as well. This is one of those few things that surpasses political divides due to just how unhappy ppl are with our healthcare system.
I come from a family of doctors. My older bro surgeon was telling me how weird it was to see even doctors celebrating the murder of someone, when they routinely save the lives of scumbags. That’s how reviled health insurance companies are. Doctors would rather happily save the life of a shot gangbanger over a CEO who makes sport of trading lives for money. They attribute far more deaths to him and hold him accountable for lives lost that could have been saved.
The only industry where you do your job, save lives, and then have to beg to be paid regularly, often needing to argue on the phone on a patient by patient basis, wasting yet more time from doctors. Have to employ whole departments of people whose only job is to talk to insurance companies and get permission for everything ahead of time (prior authorizations) and then an entire other team who will still appeal the claims when they inevitably get denied (medical billers). And then they STILL need to talk to the doctor directly to argue in what’s call Peer to Peer, where the doctor now has to argue against another doctor employed by the insurance company. They have to argue with a doctor who represents the insurance company instead of human life. Mind boggling.
It’s a completely shit show.
If he’s actually put to death, he’ll become a martyr. Saint Luigi Mangione. If this doesn’t spark a revolution, we’re fucking toast. I hate this fucking timeline.
He killed one of the Kings white stags on his lands.
St. Luigi of Hood.
He didn’t even kill. He’s innocent.
He’s innocent until proven guilty. But there does seem to be a strong case that he did kill him.
Impossible. Luigi and I were white water rafting in Idaho on the day of the murder. Luigi and I love white water rafting.
Nah, you were with his brother, Mario. It’s easy to mistake the two. I was with Luigi, he was vacationing in Denmark with me.
You are mistaken, you were with his evil counterpart, waluigi! I was with luigi, riding a mighty scots pine as it floated down the rivers of british columbia.
No no no. You see, you couldn’t have been with Luigi because he and I were horseback riding in Montana at that time.
Oh no, don’t tell her Waluigi fooled me again?
“I would have liked to have seen Montana.”perhaps Captain Borodin, in a another life. maybe even sometime say oh i dunno in the third arc of that life you’ll be a professor and run a failing dig site at Fort Peck Lake, Montana for fossils!
I can’t read the text 💀
If so, why is he pleading innocent?
He isn’t. There is no plea of innocence in the US system. He pled not guilty. There’s plenty of daylight between innocence and not being guilty as charged.
He pled not guilty. You don’t plead innocence in court.
He has to prove that he is not guilty of the case brought by the prosecution. That’s what not guilty means. He only has to disprove the specifics of the case brought against him.
Its the procetutor’s job to prove, it is the defendant’s job to disprove.
Pleading not guilty is the right choice. Either his lawyers think he’s not guilty, and this plea lets them beat the charges, or he is guilty and this plea delays the inevitable.
If he pled guilty that would skip the main part of the trial and go straight to sentencing. Pleading guilty is rarely a good idea unless you are making a deal for a reduced sentence.
The prosecution has to prove. The defense only needs to introduce reasonable doubt. Not that these are the sort of fine points that will matter when the show trial starts.
It’s all just game theory. It’s a 2x2 grid of (actually guilty, actually not guilty) and (plea guilty, plea not guilty). You add up the risks and rewards for each box and usually not guilty is the better choice
I think it was a case I heard about on Criminal podcast where a man who turned himself in for having killed a man a long time ago and took full responsibility ended up pleading not guilty at his lawyer’s insistence. He thought there was a reasonable chance for a more lenient sentencing that way than pleading guilty. Can’t remember what the reasoning was.
funny thing Witty dint even bat an eye, one of his underlings got shot.
This is so ridiculous. He killed a dude. That’s worthy of the death penalty (not in Texas)!? People have done worse to many people, or children, or… and not been sentenced to death.
Even if you’re 100% against murder in all circumstances and feel he should be locked up forever, you have to see this is just CEO’s exercising their outsized influence to discourage further punishment of the 1% and corporate leaders that prey on Americans…
Trump himself and all of his rich friends on Epstein’s island have done way worse than Luigi. At least I consider the systematic rape of children and human trafficking worse than killing a mass murderer.
The more that Trump floods the zone with bullshit, the more likely the defense can convince a judge that a fair trial is impossible.
They’re not even going to pretend that people are equal. The Donvict, President Musk, and the MAGAstappo deeply believe that rich white men are worth more than anyone who isn’t one of them, and will use the full force of the law as they interpret it to protect their interests.
Just you wait. They’re going to push for laws specifically protecting what they’ll call “High Value Citizens” or something to that effect. Give it time.
It’s called VIP and the concept isn’t new.
“VIP” getting you a special booth at a restaurant or preferential treatment at a business is one thing.
“VIP” giving you special legal protections and immunity to prosecution is another. As bad as “VIP” bias is now, just wait until it’s actually codified into law and you’ll see why “Second class citizen” is such a ubiquitous term for the systematically oppressed.
I’m sure the SCROTUS will find some reason to invalidate the Constitutional forbidding of a nobility soon. Like they ignored the Constitutional bar to holding office by participants in an insurrection.
Not codified?
Some opportunities are codified to only VIPs - e.g. you can’t invest in a hedge fund legally unless you have certain net worth.
Punishments? If a punishment for a crime is monetary (like a fine), it’s an absolute, not percentage based, so wealthy and not people are affected very differently by it.
What else do you want? Literal human hunting license?
So you are saying that VIP has a specific legal definition?
I see this as “if I’m going to get the death penalty anyway, might as well take out as many of them as I can.”
Murder is legal in self-defense or to save the live of another.
That’s how you need to look at this.
Self-defense and defending another person are both defenses against a murder charge. Neither of those acts is in itself murder. Killing another person is homicide. For it to be murder, additional factors have to be considered.
It’s not murder if it’s done in self-defense or to save the life of some other innocent person. It’s justifiable homicide.
Depends on what country you live in. In Canada that is not a valid reason to kill.
I understand what you’re getting at but self-defense requires an imminent risk of physical harm.
You can’t self-defense a bank employee who might harm you by declining your loan application.
You can’t self-defense your alcoholic neighbor because they might drive drunk later and kill someone.
Most legal systems would not justify lethal force to stop murder by omission unless the omission creates an immediate life-threatening situation and there is no other reasonable alternative.
We can even pinpoint the exact moment it becomes life-threatening without a reasonable alternative; When these spawns of the devil have a momentary self-reflective thought while moving their pencil to the checkbox to deny a valid healthcare claim. In that moment they either help their fellow human, or commit murder.
I call bullshit on that. Post the law that makes it legal.
Of which country?
I generalized the law of most civilized countries.
Look up murder by omission or something.
Or killing OJ
People kill people in war and they don’t go to jail. Luigi fought for us in the war against abusive healthcare monopoly prices. He is a hero and should be freed.
His is a wonderful use case for jury nullification. Just remember never to use that term during deliberations. Just vote not guilty, and if pressed, say that the evidence doesn’t support the charge. And say nothing more. Jurors are not obliged to explain their reasoning to the judge or to other jurors.
This actually isn’t enough, right? It just results in a hung jury, and the prosecution gets another bite at the apple. You need to actively convince your fellow jurors to render a not-guilty verdict.
This is so ridiculous. He killed a dude. That’s worthy of the death penalty (not in Texas)!?
goes looking for the charges
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Brian_Thompson
Charges
Federal
- Using a firearm to commit murder
- Interstate stalking resulting in death
- Stalking through use of interstate facilities resulting in death
- Discharging a firearm that was equipped with a silencer in furtherance of a crime of violence
New York
- First-degree murder in furtherance of terrorism
- Second-degree murder (2 counts)
- Second-degree criminal possession of a weapon (2 counts)
- Third-degree criminal possession of a weapon (4 counts)
- Fourth-degree criminal possession of a weapon
- Second-degree criminal possession of a forged instrument
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwypvd9kdewo
Mr Mangione is facing 11 state criminal counts in New York, including first-degree murder and murder as a crime of terrorism.
If convicted of all the counts, he would face a mandatory sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole.
Federal prosecutors have also separately charged Mr Mangione for using a firearm to commit murder and interstate stalking resulting in death. Both charges could make him eligible for the death penalty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luigi_Mangione
Stalking: Interstate via traveling from Georgia to New York
Stalking: Interstate via use of a cellphone and the Internet
New York State doesn’t have capital punishment. So I think that it’s the interstate aspect that made it federal jurisdiction and thus a capital crime. Otherwise, he’d just be facing life in prison without possibility of parole.
Wait, how is it two counts of murder? Are CEOs worth double points?
Hmm. That’s a good question; I don’t know of a legal doctrine that does that. But it’s three counts – one in the first degree, and two in the second degree.
kagis
I can’t find someone discussing this case in particular in a quick couple searches, but this does have another case — a policeman who killed a single person — who was charged with multiple counts of murder as well.
This is Illinois state law, but I’d guess that it probably works the same way elsewhere.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Ask_Lawyers/comments/1eiev8h/three_murder_charges_for_killing_one_person/
Hello,
I was reading about the murder of Sonya Massey by an Illinois police officer and saw that he’s been charged with three counts of first degree murder. I suppose what confuses me is that there was only one victim. Why do some states apply multiple murder charges when there is only one victim? Intuitively that seems odd.
It’s probably three different theories of the crime. The Illinois Murder 1 statute does have 3 theories:
Sec. 9-1. First degree murder.
(a) A person who kills an individual without lawful justification commits first degree murder if, in performing the acts which cause the death:
(1) he or she either intends to kill or do great bodily harm to that individual or another, or knows that such acts will cause death to that individual or another; or
(2) he or she knows that such acts create a strong probability of death or great bodily harm to that individual or another; or
(3) he or she, acting alone or with one or more participants, commits or attempts to commit a forcible felony other than second degree murder, and in the course of or in furtherance of such crime or flight therefrom, he or she or another participant causes the death of a person.
Each theory that the prosecutor thinks applies needs to be charged. (You can’t convict someone of something you forgot to charge them with.) They do this in case one theory ends up falling through. Maybe they think it was intentional, but if they can’t prove it was intentional, they think they can definitely prove that he knew there was a strong probability of death, and if they can’t prove either of those mental states, they think they can still prove that it happened during the commission of a felony. (I don’t know the facts of this case so I’m just speaking in generalities/hypotheticals.)
But even if he were convicted of all 3, the counts would merge and the sentence would not be 3x as long.
We in America are immune from double jeopardy, yes, but what about triple jeopardy?
Also very interesting to see that the federal government is all worked up when a firearm (gasp) is used to hurt some rich dirtbag.
a cop is one point. a ceo is 2 points. a horrible politician is three. and of course, the goal is to get the most points
It pisses me off that he can get charged si much for one potential crime. How can he get TWO counts of 2nd degree if it’s one murder?
He should’ve did whatever Kyle Rittenhouse did.
Be a right winger.
Hard to do that when you’re killing a CEO. Right wingers are known more for how badly they want to lick their boots. :/
Luigi has become such an icon and crystallized so many frustrations that I’m hopeful his conviction will finally spark the rebellion this country desperately needs. Hopefully in time before it turns into a fully fledged dictatorship - so, pretty soon.
It’s literally been the only light in the world of darkness for over a decade.
I started the Luigi Mangione “documentary” on HBO (I hesitate to call it that instead of what it is, propaganda)…and I didn’t even get 10 minutes into it and they were going on and on about how the UH CEO was such a good family man with so much good potential.
Gag!! 🤮
Which is funny because everything I’ve heard about him is that he was a huge prick.
I haven’t finished the doc, and I’m not sure I’ll be able to. It’s just offensive intellectually.
That reminds me of when I tried to watch the Hilary Clinton one on Netflix and the intro was just like five minutes of her shit talking Bernie Sanders and his supporters, and then the intro song was a punk song by The Interrupters. I wanted to throw the fuck up.
Omg! I’m glad I missed that one.
Yeah I shut it off after that. It was clear to me that this wasn’t going to be an informative documentary.
Wait wait wait, hold up. You’re telling me the CEO of an insurance company was a huge prick? Nah, there’s no way, I don’t believe you. That’s simply not possible.
Nah they’re all great guys! Anything else anyone tries to tell you is all liberal communist propaganda
Thank you for saving me the time.
Also I like your name, you a fan of VEEP?
Thanks! I haven’t ever watched it.
Oh, you gotta see it. It’s hilarious.
Yeah, I’ve heard it’s good. I do need to give it a shot. I’m a big Seinfeld fan, so Dreyfus being the main character is a draw.
Yeah. If you like arrested development too you’ll love it.
If they convict him there’s likely to be mass riots.
There’s no “if” here, it’s “when”.
Whether or not Luigi did it, somebody needs to made an example of by the ultra-rich class and the corporate world for murdering one of their own. That person is Luigi.
I expect a mistrial to be totally honest. They can’t shield the jurors from enough outside influence that not a single one buckles at least in my opinion.
No
Great contribution to the discussion there.
Yes
free luigi <3
Trump, in an executive order: “The Government’s most solemn responsibility is to protect its citizens from abhorrent acts, and my Administration will not tolerate efforts to stymie and eviscerate the laws that authorize capital punishment against those who commit horrible acts of violence against American citizens.”
Abhorrent acts like denying over 1/4 of healthcare coverage claims? Abhorrent acts like demanding surgeons scrub out and immediately call back the insurer to justify the surgery that they were in the middle of performing?
No, of course not.
The other side of that coin is that capital punishment doesn’t protect anyone from anything. In fact, it puts us all in more danger for a variety or reasons, including:
- The State can kill you with impunity if so desired
- Where capital punishment exists, people who commit crimes are more likely to escalate to more heinous acts in order to evade capture
capital punishment is only there to satiate conservative voters in the countries, they love this. otherwise the states wouldve all eliminated them already.
I only wanted to point out the hypocrisy, but you make a good point:
Where capital punishment exists, people who commit crimes are more likely to escalate to more heinous acts in order to evade capture
I forgot:
- Innocent people get executed a lot.
And this indirect effect, even when the person sentenced to death is undeniably guilty:
- Opportunity cost. The legal process of appeals that goes on before a convicted person is actually executed is more costly than life imprisonment. The money spent on that process is not spent on constructive public good.
By his own decree his 2020 administration should be facing capitol punishment for acts of federal agents in Portland and other cities during peaceful protests over unrest at the time.
This shit comes from the same mouth that incited a fucking riot and tried to overthrow the government. Fuck this piece of dog shit.
Trump wasn’t talking about Luigi, his act was about supplying lethal injection drugs to states with pending executions. Luigi hasn’t received any sentencing.
President Donald Trump ordered the attorney general to pursue the death penalty “for all crimes of a severity demanding its use” in an executive order signed January 20. The order ended the moratorium on federal executions enacted by former President Joe Biden’s administration.
1/3 which is much worst than 1/4 denial.
For science, here’s the fund if you’re curious…
I’m glad this turned out to be legit. I had wallet out on day one of this campaign.
It’s literally for science, considering the opposition.
Thanks. Donated.
