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“I can’t delete bloatware” - all 3 of them
I would say you can on do that on Windows and Android, but it is not intended by the OS and you have to work around certain measures. Linux just lets you do everything, even if it is a really bad idea
you could do that on windows. no longer.
linux is fine, just don’t sudo under the influence.
All of them are pushing generative AI that many users don’t want and you have to manually opt out on Windows and Mac.
And you’ll often just be opted back in the next time there’s an update.
nah windows will not let you disable things like windows defender and telemetry, even if you have windows enterprise edition. It might be possible to delete it some of the bloatware, but it’ll just reinstall itself in an update.
My favourite thing about updates on my work Mac is when you say ‘try in one hour’ thinking it’ll ask you then an hour later it aggressively closes your programs. I use Linux, Mac and Windows regularly and Mac has by far the worst update experience out of all of them imo.
Yes but it also reopens everything exactly as you left it, meaning you can update and not loose anything mission critical; ymmv ofc but in my personal experience MacOS has the best update experience from mainstream OS
Definitely. I’ve used macos for work for 10+ years now and never had an issue with updates. Windows updates on the other hand…
I’ve clicked the “install updates tonight” button a bunch of times, it consistently fails to update and then I have to force it to update the next morning. Incredibly poor experience.
You can also remove the fr*nch language pack via
rm -fr /But in all seriosity, i tried to install Linux dual-boot with Windows on my dad’s computer last weekend, and it broke the windows install because it doesn’t support bitlocker (apparently). Maybe i could have gotten it to work, but i abandoned the project after the first failed attempt. Still a bit salty about that. Especially since it was meant to be a demonstration how “quick and easy” installing Linux nowadays supposedly is.
I was installing Linux on sb else’s PC, to skip the Bitlocker warning I had to boot Windows, use cmd to assign drive letters to recovery partitions and disable bitlocker on them, again from cmd. The owner was confused because they had disabled bitlocker on C: but got Bitlocker warning on Linux installer anyways, I was looking at stackoverflow threads to find the right commands right next to the owner because I hadn’t used Windows for years and forgot how to do things lol. Fun times.
The best way to dual boot windows and linux is with separate drives, not partitions imo.
You’re missing the last step, throw out the windows drive.
Sounds great in theory, but there are still things that only work on windows for me.
If something does not work, mostly it either has a kernel level anticheat or it’s Adobe. I just learned to live without these, I think it’s for the best. You can even do VR on Linux nowadays!
VR runs terribly on linux and I don‘t want to coinflip whether or not my racing wheel works.
Additionally if my friends want to play something with anticheat I am not going to say no. Keeping a rarely used Windows Installation is worth it to me.
SteamVR runs terribly on Linux, Monado/WiVRn is pretty playable.
I prefer to drag my friends toward games without integrated rootkits. Better for them, better for me. Thankfully, there are plenty of games to choose from today.
I’d recommend separate computers
In separate buildings.
It is quick and easy. Maintaining any other OS side by side is always a bigger ordeal than not doing it. It breaks the other way around as well - If you were running some linux distro and then tried dual booting by installing windows - no way you’d be able to boot into linux without extra tweaking.
non-pqréservéè-rootònn
Linux: i can’t stop dumb users (me) completely destroying everything with a bad console command
I much prefer that to Apple’s approach of “you probably didn’t want to do that, so you can’t”. I’ve literally had to boot into Linux to fix things on Macs. Fucking infuriating.
I did this. Luckily, nothing was lost because I was only using it to learn at the time. It oddly boosted my confidence because if I could break the OS, I could learn how to use it.
I’m pretty sure that if you use elevated privileges to run commands you don’t understand, you can break Windows just as much as you can break Linux. Windows might pop up an extra “Are you sure?” box or two though. It’s been a while since I did anything on that OS.
You can, but on windows there is no need usually to run these kind of commands.
What happened was that years ago I was trying out Ubuntu but didn’t like the UI, so I followed some steps from someone to replace the gnome or whatever with something else (kde?), but then the ui completely broke down.
Given how fickle that system is in Ubuntu, I was probably using legit sources for the commands, but they were not fully up to date and something went wrong.
Ironically, something similar happened lately on my Ubuntu virtual machine, where the file explorer has rendering issues, but tbh I think this time it was because the virtual machine disk space became full mid update, so kind of my bad too.
The only thing keeping me in windows these days is that I just really like the UI, but I think next time I need to format (which admittedly might be year or two from now) I might move to GraphyOS anyway.
I would not recommend someone who does not know what they are doing replacing the DE, the process heavily varies depending on your current setup. If you want Ubuntu with KDE, just use Kubuntu.
A great learning experience to not copy paste commands yoj don’t understand.
Breaking things is a valid way to start learning. Reading man pages is very often difficult and confusing for new users. And much of the documentation is crap anyway-- it’s why distro forums exist. And I’m from a time when distro upgrades/updates were sometimes dicey, (they still can break things on occasions), and you complied your kernel and drivers from scratch.
Please, I don’t understand a single command I’m putting in. I’m just copying whatever some nerd posted on a message board.
wget url | bash
Nice, now your computer is mining crypto for someone else or part of a botnet.
Nice, now your computer is mining crypto for someone else and part of a botnet.
Ftfy
But that’s in my experience sadly very necessary especially in the beginning when you are getting into Linux. So getting into Linux has quite a steep learning curve because not knowing what you are copy pasting can have terrible consequences, but understanding everything before you copy paste is very demanding.
When out comes to my main rig, i never had the experience of everything just working out of the box. There was always something that required me searching for obscure fixes, hoping for the best.Very necessary
No it absolutely is not. When you’re looking up guides and come across an unfamiliar command, don’t copy and paste it and find out what it does. Google it. Man it. Research it. Stop copying and pasting commands you don’t understand.
My point is that if that is the case (and I do understand why) then i can’t possibly recommend Linux to people that don’t want their OS to be their hobby, because as for my experience they will come across something that needs some command line input.
And also don’t run commands that require you to type in “do as I say” before they run
Yeah. Reminds me of a dependency fuckup with steam on pop os that uninstalled the desktop environment when trying to install steam.
I’m still pissed off about how LTT reacted to that. The warning literally told you not to do it, you did it anyway, and somehow that’s Linux’s fault? That’s like eating one of those silica packets that says “DO NOT EAT” and then blaming the manufacturer.
I never messed up my computer despite frequently not knowing what certain command I am running does. Am I lucky, can I buy a lottery on this basis?
Linux: I can’t stop you.
It could. It just doesn’t want to. Why would it? Its your computer.
If you want to delete / including the EFI partition turning your machine into a paperweight you should be allowed to do so.
I don’t want my mom to be able to turn her computer into a paperweight…
Don’t give her sudo permission then.
How she will install anything then
My mom needs a computer for work, but she keeps bludgeoning people to death with it. What should I do?! Linux must have a solution for this!
Just to be clear, the person answering Flatpaks isn’t being flippant. Any tools, editors or games that Mom wants, she can safely install by searching and clicking ‘intall’, all without enough permissions to harm her computer.
Linux, for less technical parents, is genuinely really nice, now.
you can add
sudopermissions for individual users for certain commands only; and i recommend you would do that; i.e. give hersudopermission for installing/uninstalling applications, but nothing else.uninstalls the kernel package
My dad never uses anything other than a browser and an email program. I guess the file manager? I’m pretty sure he never installed anything on Mint so far.
He still needs sudo to uodate tho.Flatpaks
You can give her limited sudo rights; even limit her to install and upgrade operations.
While that is possible. You do have to go out of your way to do that in ways a typical user wouldn’t.
Aside from that like others have said. Just don’t give sudo perms and have them use Flatpak.
/j then you don’t love your mother enough to learn coding and make a mom-proof distro.
/uj oh my god I have ptsd from the one time my parents tried to switch to apple products. It lasted less than a week. Please don’t let them decide to switch to Linux and ask me things.
It’s a good thing that new and unexperienced users who want to learn 😃 on the internet get recommendations such as “use
rm -fr /to remove the french language pack and fix your localization issues” and then ending up with an expensive, broken hardware (/s)deleted by creator
rm -rf /only deletes everything on the / partition and any currently mounted filesystems, since efi is its own partition and not mounted it wouldn’t be touchednot mounted
I agree with you, the EFI variables shouldn’t be mounted by default. Unfortunately, on some systems, they are.
There was even a huge fight about that. I’m too lazy to look it up now, though.
Huh that’s very interesting!
snopes does not have that in their search results
SELinux: I’m sorry Dave, we don’t do that here.
Sudo !!
Can’t stop won’t stop.
Installing old Linux applications IS a problem. They’re available only if someone repackaged them for newer distros. If not they can’t run anymore because of dependencies mismatch.
nixsolved this by modifying LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to the desired dependency and/or modifying the binary itself.This is a good reason for static linking. All the dependencies are built into the binary, meaning it is more portable and future proof.
We don’t need flatpak for this!
And harder to fix vulnerabilities in a linked library, and more bloat in both storage space and memory used.
Trade-offs!
I’ll take a program that isn’t getting updates anymore or simply wasnt working in my modified environment using slightly more ram and storage over it not working at all.
I have firsthand experience with videogames made for one flavor of Linux not working on my machine due to dependency hell.
For occasional programs, or things like games, I’ll agree. For most software I use, no thanks.
Flatpak time
NCSA Mosaic flatpak my beloved
Just supply the dependencies with a chroot. That’s how we did it before distro maintainers started including the 32bit libraries into the 64bit OS.
I think this meme is referring to when Apple ripped out 32bit support in macOS a few years ago. I couldn’t use Wine anymore to play old windows games on my Mac after that update for example.
But… to be fair, are there any versions of Linux that let you do this either? Replacing the OS, especially jumping from 32 to 64-bit, is kinda a HUGE deal!? I’ve had numerous problems switching Linux distros, and some issues switching Mac software, and they seem more or less the same to me? - if anything, it was easier for me to switch on a Mac?
I don’t know about Wine and older games - I would guess that recompilation would be in order. I could see if they jumped the gun specifically for the newer (at the time M1) series, that such tools were not yet ready by third party apps as Wine. Though Mac switches chip architecture so exceedingly rarely that it is barely an issue, long-term, and if anyone using Linux switched architecture it would similarly require recompilation as well?
I feel like I am not expressing myself well here, but I’m out of time to edit and hopefully you see what I mean:-).
When distro maintainers started building and shipping 64bit versions, they didn’t include 32bit libraries. You had to make a chroot for a 32bit distro, then symlink those libraries in among your 64bit libraries. Once distro maintainers were confident in the 64bit builds, they added 32bit libraries. In the case of Windows, Microsoft created a translation layer similar to WINE called WoW64 (Windows on Windows64). Apple is the only one who said, fuck you buy new software, to their customers. Rosetta is the first time Apple didn’t tell their customers to go pound sand; probably not by choice.
Macs back then made a big deal about being backwards compatible, unlike Windows, at the time. Now the roles have switched, as you say. The transition from Steve Jobs to Tim Cook was rather impactful to the Apple ecosystem.
Still, the situation in the meme describes one event that happened 6 years ago, where Apple moved from x86 architecture to the M-series, all of once in the last 20 some odd years of computing.
But Linux has zero problems? (Again, according to the meme) I feel like I’ve occasionally had some problems with Linux, just as I’ve had problems with Mac, and between the two of them I’ve had far more issues with the former than the latter.
To be fair, emulators such as Parallels and VMWare Fusion are not free, while Linux is open source FOSS. But for perhaps that reason… why has nobody built a version of Wine that works on a 64-bit Mac (they have btw) and includes native support for the older 32-bit architectures? Like, isn’t this a failure of the Wine approach (again: FOSS architecture) to keep up with hardware, more than an actual problem with using a Mac? If somebody were to build that, then the problem would be solved? (Which again, it already is, by Parallels and VMWare Fusion, just not FOSS.)
In any case, I just don’t see the humor here, when all I see is the tribal “in-group good, but out-group bad” philosophy on display. There are plenty of issues with Macs - but this is hardly one of them, it seems to me. Especially when after digging in sufficiently deeply to understand it, you find that it’s actually a deficiency with Wine, not Apple.
Wine can run 32 bit apps on Catalina & newer with WoW64, only native 32 bit prefixes got busted. Ironically I had one such prefix on Mojave, now the Mac has only Linux but the OS + Wine prefix is backed up twice.
I thought wine on Linux pulls in a load of 32-bit libraries so it still works on 64-bit systems.
Yes, but apparently those libraries aren’t already present on a computer by default? So the Linux user has to download and install them.
While on a Mac, the user also has to download and install an emulator, such as Parallels or VMWare Fusion (or dual-boot with an older 32-bit OS). So it’s downloading and installing something aka extra work either way.
Except that emulators for Mac aren’t FOSS. Except Wine that while there is an unofficial 64-bit version that works on Mac, it does not support 32-bit games (on an M-series chip, emulating a x86 one). At a guess, someone did not bother making such bc Steam now exists that works so well?
But this meme suffers from inaccuracies by (1) pretending that nobody has ever had any problems with Linux, ever, and (2) that this singular event once in the past 20 years of computing, and this even 6 years ago already, makes Macs “bad”, and (3) somehow blaming Mac for the decision of the Wine developers to not make software that would work across both software (running Windows on a Mac) and chip architectures (running 32-bit programs meant for x86 chips on a 64-bit M-series chip instead). Why is that a problem with a Mac, especially if you don’t need or want to run such programs, or if you do, then you are willing to download and install an emulator rather than solely use Wine, which those devs have not made work in this case?
This meme is not very insightful, and instead perpetuates the stereotypical “in-group good, but out-group bad” philosophy, imho.
You got to build them shits from source.
First step install the old ass compiler version this can be built with.
I almost never have that problem! I feel like everything is gcc or cmake or whatever.
But I’m a dabbler, not a pro, so, my old-as-dirt compiling experiences are like, tome2-gcu (a total banger, btw).
Also, The Dabbler would make for a great Batman villain.
Distrobox would like a word, or so I’ve heard. Haven’t had to use it yet, as the AUR has pretty much everything.
Nah, skill issue. Get gud and resolve the dependencies manually. 🤓
It’s actually an ongoing problem with closed source Linux games. Devs don’t want to update, and don’t want to open source.
A lot of the time the Windows version will play better through Proton/Wine.
Just use a chroot. That’s what SteamRuntime is. That’s how we handled 32bit libraries on 64bit Linux distros prior to distros including them for gaming back in the day.
Time for nethack.
It’s gotten significantly better with containerization technologies like oci containers and flatpak. Yes it uses more storage, but the drive space pretty cheap
Speaking of not being able to delete system apps, a friend of mine with a Pixel phone says Google Play cannot be uninstalled from it. Anybody know for sure?
On adb use pm uninstall than package name. there is something called universal android debloter. Also you can use shizuku with canta to remove it.
You can via adb ( android debug bridge ) , no root needed, but you need a pc or shizuku. Although if he has a pixel device he should just install GrapheneOS imo. Edit: puxel -> pixel
No you can’t, 1 version of Google Play is bundled with the system image and cannot be removed. But you can uninstall updates and disable it to remove the automatically updated copy of Google Play.
Neither can the Chrome or Youtube apps, among others…
Ok then apparently his play store must have gotten hidden somehow. My theory is that he just fucked up.
I had something similar, and yeah you can replace the entire OS with a customized version, which took someone significant effort to strip away the GA (Google Apps probably?) from it. So the answer depends on how much effort you want to put into the task - it’s doable, but not easy.
I can’t remember the original version of the comic, what does each one of them say?
“I wish I wasn’t primarily bred to be food…”
The ultimate life form.
You can totally stop updates on Windows. Fully off. They don’t offer good options for updating on demand on your own schedule, but you can disable updates entirely and for pro and enterprise skus you can use GPO for additional delay options.
Wat. Enterprise does allow you to update whenever you want.
I honestly don’t remember the specifics of how I’ve got my Pro install configured for updates. I think it doesn’t notify of available updates until they’ve been out a month (keeps me from pulling down a bleeding edge update that causes more problems than it fixes), downloads them so they’ll auto-install on shutdown/restart for a week, and if I don’t uodate that week then it flashes up the “your organization requires you to update by [next week]” message. I don’t think it actually forces when that week runs out, so you’re probably right, but it’s been a long time since I’ve went two whole weeks without shutting down or rebooting.
I do know that I’ve got “feature updates” (read OS changes) set to only be available if I manually install them. So the whole “Windows forces you to upgrade to 11” complaint is pure BS at least.
I have feature updates disabled and security ones delayed for 4 days but that’s only for the notification. It doesn’t actually do anything unless I click “Update”. That’s why I don’t get what you mean by saying it doesn’t allow you to update on demand. I’m on Windows Education so it might be different for Pro since it has less features.
The apps aren’t supported
I was trying to delete a KDE program that I’ll never use, but Discover seemed to want to remove the whole pile of KDE Apps. I’m sure there’s a way.
Discover got the Pop OS vibe. You want to remove a small app?how about to remove the entire desktop emviroment and system components? Y/N
The K in KDE stands for kitchensink.
It may be that it wants to uninstall some kde-plasma-desktop metapackage, not the whole bunch of all kde apps. If it is uninstalled, nothing crucially important happens. Try to remove it with
aptif you’re running some Debian or Ubuntu flavour.The problem is that the all those apps installed as dependencies will get marked as unused and removed with the next
--autoremove(which you should probably do regularly to clean up old kernels.The real fix would be to mark all those apps as explicitly installed, but I don’t use apt-based distros regularly so idk how.
You can then either ‘install’ them with
apt, which does essentially only mark installed packags as manually installed or use e.g. synaptic for that.Yeah but you’d need to do it for *everything* that’s affected, which is a lot.
Not every package, but some of them. The remaining are dependencies. Essentially, one can (iteratively) copy paste the output list of
apt autoremoveintoapt installuntilapt autoremovedoesn’t want to uninstall packages one intends to keep.
have you like
ever actually tried installing an old app on linux
or accidentally had a power outage during an updateit literally can’t update without breaking and can’t install old apps lol
Can’t you just bury your head in the sand like the rest of us? Linux is literally perfect if you ignore all of its flaws.
Yeah I’ve installed heaps of old apps, it depends on dynamic vs static libraries etc but some people still use Emacs 25…
I have lost power whilst updating, can be a nuisance depending in the distro, but snapshots (zfs and btrfs both work well for me) have been life saving.
Mac and windows simply don’t have a lot of quality of life features. Working with them is painful. As self a documenting systems they are fantastic though, however, when I was younger we had things called schools that served to address that gap, these have fallen out of favour in modern times.
it depends on dynamic vs static libraries
why must the user think about this shit? i can grab a windows app made for XP and run it on 11, and it’ll run perfectly fine, and i don’t have to think about the way its dynamic loader figures it out
ill have lower chances of running an app made for RHEL8 on RHEL9 than that
That’s a fair point. But it also depends on the application as well.
To use the example from earlier, good luck getting Emacs 25 to run on Windows 11.
…but maybe another perspective is that it works really well with Windows because they prioritise backwards compatibility at the expense of development time and they can do that because they’re a large company and as a large company the community gets a very little say in the way that their operating system works.
Linux is your operating system. It’s community driven and community developed and one of the expenses of that is that users are going to need a higher degree of technical capacity. The trade-off is that you get more privacy, and more say.
However, I believe that it’s achievable for most users.
I mean this sincerely, how can I help? I’m not an expert but i did teach this to university students and I’m a big advocate of privacy. What would you like to see?
That’s literally just software stuff, not Linux’s fault lmao
And if it doesn’t affect Linux itself, it’s the developers fault
At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter whose fault it is.
Android hate not tolerated. Android can delete system apps, if you aee root. On linux you can"t install or uninstall anything if you are not root
Considering how difficult it still can be to get root on Android, I understand the shade, though.
It requires an unlocked bootloader and an installed recovery
Thanks. I’m aware of that…
On linux you can"t install or uninstall anything if you are not root
Wrong. You can install Flatpak apps as a user, which are very similar to apps on Android.
You can install
anand uninstall Flatpak applications in Linux as normal user.Lol wut?
On linux you can"t install or uninstall anything if you are not root
That’s not true at all. You generally can’t use your distribution’s package manager to install or uninstall without elevated privileges. But you can download packages, or executables with their own installer, and unpack/install under your home directory. Or, you can compile from source, and if you
./configure’d it properlymake installwill put it under your home.Standard Linux distributions don’t place restrictions on what you can and cannot execute; if it needs permissions for device access of course you’ll need to sort that out.
I’m running NixOS and my entire desktop environment is installed and managed without root.
I find it hilarious that the first architecture change in 10 years, that happened seven years ago, still causes anxiety and pain for people who don’t even use that operating system and probably never did.
I wonder how much Linux usership is owed to people being completely incapable of dealing with a minor inconvenience they once encountered (or only saw a meme about) on an apple product.
The sun puts out less energy than is wasted by people hating on Apple for completely and utterly irrational reasons.
An equal amount of wasted energy is output defending a trillion dollar corporation that doesn’t care about those defending them at all. Apple be fine. Let’s just use our computers and move on with our lives; it doesn’t have to be personal.
Defending the truth seems worthwhile to me. Even if for a mega corporation. There are valid criticisms to be used… but this is not one of them. We can do better!
I’m pretty sure the meme is factually correct: you can’t run 32 bit applications on current versions of macOS. Unless something has changed recently that I don’t know of. Doesn’t iOS also force updating apps? I have a vague memory of my partner not being able to use an “old” version of an app and also not being able to update it so they simply couldn’t use it. That could be on the app developer though. Both of those a relevant to “old apps”.
If the meme is referring only to arm64 then eh I guess it’s a bit of a stretch but whatever, it’s a meme.
I agree there are many more, and much more annoying, criticisms though.
Meanwhile i got an 1988 japanase source code to compile and work on windows 11 without any problem. I can even send it if you want to see. It was written by prof emeritus Haruhiko Okamura in 1988.
Neat, that says a lot about the programmer too, although Windows is famous for bending over backwards for backwards compatibility.
Doesn’t iOS also force updating apps?
I haven’t used iOS in 10 years, but I do recall that even on older Android devices, Netflix wants you to keep closer to the current version (oddly enough, even for a 1st or 2nd gen Chromecast?). So I think not technically, although I don’t know the current status, but even so, yeah, but same as Android too. Ofc, at some point the device gets so old that Apple won’t let you update it any longer, so that’s one way to get it to stop updating:-P.
In researching this a bit more, I confirm that 64-bit Mac not running 32-bit programs is a valid criticism. However, my original point stands: what Linux system can also allow you to do similarly? Especially across a different chip set - like why expect a 64-bit Mac M-something to run a 32-bit game compiled for Windows using a x86 architecture, without needing to install something else to specifically handle that transition? Here is an example of someone doing the same with Ubuntu, needing to first install multiple libraries before it will “just work”.
Even so, there are multiple ways to make this procedure work on a Mac. Other than dual booting with an older copy of a 32-bit OS, emulators can work at near native speeds. Granted, it’s not as convenient as Wine (I would guess?), and won’t be until someone puts in the effort to make a 64-bit version of Wine (which does exist) that will natively support 32-bit programs, again compiled for a different OS (Windows) and chip architecture (x86). It only won’t work until… you know, it does.
Which it already does, using the likes of either Parallels or VMWare Fusion, which yeah requires the complexity of downloading an additional program and setting up a VM environment.
On the other hand, notice how according to this meme, there are zero problems with Linux, like EVER. In comparison, having to download an extra program, due to an event that happened all of once in the last 20 years of computing, and even that was 6 years ago now… apparently that’s “too much work”? How did this meme creator (which seems not OP according to other comments here) figure out how to join a Lemmy - wouldn’t having to pick an instance first likewise be too much to handle?! 😜
I kid, but this kind of tribal thinking (“in-group good, out-group bad”) doesn’t help anything, imho.
Hmm the type of thinking that implies Linux users only say bad things about Apple because they don’t know what they’re talking about? :)
You can 100% run 32 bit binaries on Linux systems so the answer is all of them. The need for libraries isn’t the same as the complete inability to do so, any program with dependencies of course needs them and they of course have to be compatible. Hell with
binfmt_miscyou can even run arm32/aarch64 binaries, but that’s not fair I guess since it’ll be transparent qemu emulation, although still pretty cool.Also my view of this meme isn’t that it’s implying that there are no issues, just that it doesn’t force things on you or stop you from doing things which is generally true.
Where did I say “Linux users”? Or for that matter, “only”? We were discussing the OP meme, not extrapolating beyond that to stereotype all Linux users. I mean… I use Linux, so why would I stereotype myself like that as well!?:-P
Also where did “complete inability to do so” come from? You can use emulation software such as Parallels or VMWare Fusion, or you could dual-boot into a 32-bit OS. So there’s 3 ways to accomplish the task. Granted, none as easy as if the Wine FOSS had decided to implement the task by itself, but just because they choose not to does not mean that any of those other 3 approaches will not work (bc they will).
Though yeah, I could see your last point. Tim Cook’s Apple making that business decision to switch from Intel x86 to the M-series chips and then not provide a Rosetta internal emulation system definitely can earn that for-profit corporation some negative thoughts, in comparison to FOSS. Then again, it sorta makes sense to me bc it’s a very niche case, to emulate old 32-bit x86 Windows programs on a 64-bit M-series modern Mac. They decided that the cost wasn’t worth it to them, when Parallels and VMWare Fusion already can handle the situation. So following that logic, shouldn’t we similarly be making fun of Wine, for also not stepping up to fill this gap? And all the more so bc it’s not a greedy for-profit megamaniacal corporation, but supposed to be there to provide for people’s needs, free of cost? I wonder what the logic behind that was? Perhaps that Steam exists now, so the need for such is again… just like for the Apple corporatization… too niche to bother with? If both for-profit Apple and FOSS Wine are in agreement here on that point, then I don’t really see the meme as much of a humorous joke. But maybe I’m just too unfunny to get it:-D.
What does Wine have to do with anything…? Wine is an implementation of Windows ABI and APIs, it has nothing to do with Linux’s ability to run 32 bit executables on 64 bit machines. AMD64 CPUs can run x86 instructions. 32 bit executables run natively on Linux, no emulation or VM required. Old (pre arm) versions of MacBooks have hardware that can run 32 bit instructions, but the OS simply doesn’t let you run 32 bit executables anymore without jumping through hoops.
A lot of your comment here makes no sense, tbh it reads like you’ve reached the limit of your understanding. And no we shouldn’t be “making fun of” the Wine team getting paid basically nothing for making an amazing product. Wtf?
It’s probably more likely that they just needed to find something bad to say about Macs, and were too lazy to find one of the actual legitimate reasons (like it being closed source or something? probably bc the one used “sounds better”, to someone who can’t recognize that it is gaslighting).
The amount of purity whinging in Linux communities generally makes me sorry whenever I respond to one of these posts. On the other hand, I am not smart so here goes once more into the fray… 🤪
I just don’t get this delusion that “closed source” = evil.
Then again, I never “got” fanatical movements or beliefs.
I never “got” fanatical movements or beliefs.
Said the guy defending Apple on Lemmy. Oh, boy.
Do you often hallucinate things I never said? What am I not saying now?
I’m sure in your head that was a great comeback. Good job, champ.
This is a good thing 😊
Tbf, I think the idea is that closed source is not necessarily “bad” per se but rather “unstable”, like how Reddit was closed source and then enshittified, leaving no access to it. Which reveals the limitations of that style of thinking: part of what made Reddit so accessible was that it was centralized, so even if someone did spin up a new Reddit (didn’t that actually happen, now that I come to think of it? or at least an older version of its sourcecode?), it still would not work to replace the “Reddit” that we knew. There can be only one… for such a non-federated platform.
Conversely, Kbin was open source, and spawned Mbin after Kbin.social died and Ernst stopped working so much on Kbin. Then again… look at Mbin now, barely any further ahead than it was when it was still Kbin? (In contrast, PieFed is adding new features like mad!) And the OP meme seems to me more a reflection on how open-source Wine never bothered to add support for running 32-bit x86 old Windows on a 64-bit modern Mac running on an M-series chip. In contrast, there are multiple other solutions already existing: Parallels, VMWare Fusion, and dual booting with a 32-bit Mac OS to name 3 examples. Just bc Wine doesn’t do the task, doesn’t mean that other, non-FOSS software can’t and won’t.
And even on Linux, you still would need the extra step to install libraries to get 32-bit programs running on a 64-bit architecture. So downloading and installing stuff isn’t limited to just Macs, it’s Linux too, for this exact scenario.
Or, to hear the meme tell it, Linux never has any problems ever, i.e. “in-group good, but out-group bad”. Sigh…
Removed by mod
I was agreeing with you, you dick. (There, how’s that?:-P)
I’m definitely not gonna read that long ass comment.
Based on some of their arguments it feels like they’ve never actually used a Mac. “It’s for babies and old people” they cry, like there’s not an entire Unix system under the hood.
That’s like saying there is an entire Linux system under Android. Sure there is, but there is enough in the way to
make the kernel not really accessiblenot have access to many normal Linux functions (like ifconfig).Are Linux users really working in the kernel all that much? I’ve been doing support for Linux sysadmins for a decade and not once have I needed to touch the kernel.
I mis-phrased that, sorry. In the Android case, you can’t access a lot of networking functionality and other lower level access functions.
Running ifconfig responses with:
Warning: cannot open /proc/net/dev (Permission denied). Limited output.
Even though it is based on Linux, and has access to the ifconfig app, it’s not really something you can do. There are other things to consider like that. While you could try to give yourself root access, it’s messy and not something that’s really easy or encouraged.
In macOS’s case, it’s Unix to a point, but try installing NVIDIA cards in them (for CUDA cores). There are Unix drivers for Nvidia cards, for x86 and ARM, but even thought it’s Unix, it still won’t work.
How about running native Vulcan? It’s a major API for 3D graphics. It has a Unix driver, but still can’t work on macOS. Best that can be done is workarounds, but that’s not native and has issues.
There is Unix support for these, but macOS isn’t really Unix underneath.
Okay, that makes more sense. Though the amount of trouble I’ve heard Linux folks have with Nvidia stuff shouldn’t mean that it’s not Linux. Just that Nvidia sucks.
Also, Vulkan seems to have a ton of support for Apple Silicon.
And finally, Mac OS has been certified Unix 03 since 2009 except for version 10.7
You typically don’t need, and should not have access to the kernel, however, as there are custom kernels for android, it is possible. In fact, Android is far the best operating sytem ever created. Fast, highly secure, portable linux in your pocket, that is open-source, widely used, easy to use, and you can easily have full control over it, provided the hardware is allowing to unlock the bootloader
Mac is arguably more Unix than Linux is. Mind you, that doesn’t make it better, but yeah, why not allow people the freedom to choose?
Especially if your workplace is picking up the tab for the device, and all the more so if the only options are Windows vs. Mac bc that’s what the company has knowledge of due to them being used before.
Linux is great. Windows sucks ass. Mac is also great. What is so hard about saying that?
Mac is not great bc it is incredibly expensive and very restrictive, fully closed source. Most apps are paywalled too, you can barely do anything on a Mac if you are broke
Okay, but read my 3rd sentence. Though yeah, what you said is somewhat true as well - except that Mac OSX does provide a ton of stuff right out of the box, included in the price you might say, whoever pays it; also, many Linux programs require payment too, like a game on Steam, and also, many FOSS programs can work on Mac as well, especially if someone has already put in the effort to figure out how to get it to compile. So it’s not “barely anything”, even though it is lesser. Oh and also, if your work picks up the pricetag for the paid apps, then that solves that issue as well.
They both have their uses, by different people at different times - e.g. a Mac if you can get access to one, while a Linux at home if you cannot.
