I still flip flop between ML and anarchism to be honest. I’m ML because of climate change time constraints but anarchist in heart.
Really what I care about is improving things. And I will use whatever toolbox seems to be the best option under the conditions in order to achieve that.
the centrist leftist take
Am I an ML? An anarchist? Who cares, I just wanna grill (the rich)
you’ve just birthed a new tagline
You joke but I genuinely feel like this most days. If anything is getting done we’re gonna need to team up anyways.
A friend of mine always says “I’m an ML now so I can be an anarchist one day in the future”
that’s a good one
I have been converted to third worldism by all the contradictions. Something global historical materialism something super exploitation.
I think third worldism is about to be ripped apart by climate change. We’re going to see a very very rapid destabilisation occur from climate refugee movements numbering in the tens of millions. It took just thousands of Syrian refugees to provoke huge EU destabilisation that led to Brexit, Greece, Italy, far right movements, etc etc… What’s going to happen when the numbers are in the millions is going to blow it out of the water.
This rapid destabilisation is going to create a lot of revolutionary events.
Won’t that just accelerate fascism though? Though I guess you could apply the same argument to the third world as well, in terms of anti colonial nationalism that doesn’t go anywhere.
Yes. But everything that creates revolutionary conditions also accelerates fascism. It will win in some places, but I’m also quite sure that it will lose in others. We can not change the fact that these conditions are coming so we can only figure out what we’re going to do within them.
My belief is that we should be preparing for this situation so that we can act when it comes.
I agree with you there 100%. We need to prepare now
Yeah I would love for it to be possible for us to simply build our new world and show people a better way, but we are running out of time and more authoritarian measures are going to be necessary.
“more authoritarian measures are going to be necessary.”
Welp, that’s the gotcha for calling you ‘tankie’ according to these people.
Use state measures, and they would treat you as oriental orc with no sense… get crushed by authoritarians and they will publicly worship you while secretly celebrating a progressive defeat towards reaction…
Edit: I’m pro-Nakoichi, just to clarify…
it all depends on whether by “authoritarian” the liberals mean “classes, hierarchies, oppression, bigotry and exploitation” or if they simply mean “using violence to bring an end to classes, hierarchies, oppression, bigotry and exploitation.” I find that they tend to mean the latter. Hence, I leave it to Engels:
and also, oddly enough, Mark Twain:
no more half measures walter
Wait why won’t lemmygrad allow you?
It’s a joke, because I initially thought it wouldn’t allow me, due to a large waiting time. I eventually made an account of a similar name there later on…
I’ve definitely found myself exploring outside of the purist/dogmatic ML takes you tend to find from white cis het ML on twitter etc.
I consider myself a socialist and since I’m working towards communism eventually then im a ML because its what helps define communism within a industrialised nation right? That label would fit but living in the imperial core I view our struggle currently as less an adventurist revolutionary fantasy on the horizon like I think a lot of newer ML fall into and instead I see what must be done based not on the material conditions of the USSR and orthodox ML but ML applied to for me the UK.
So that for me is building local community, education, uplifting and building local socialism whether it’s mutual aid or whatever.
Like I just don’t see any form of large macro change happening in fortress Europe until people’s economic conditions really force their hand. When that happens whoever gets into power will be defined by the foundation of understanding around economics, either we slide into fascism or we rise to socialism I think.
Therefore for me I feel I’m doing right by engaging in local community stuff to build the foundations for socialism and eventually communism or whatever flavor of socialism we end up with frankly.
Conversely if we did what I think a lot of newer ML want and have a big barney now, even if the socialist won, we’d have our base slaughtered in the fighting by thr armies and police of our own states and have no larger prole force to create a dictatorship of the proletariat to start with losing our hard fought win to oppotunist fascism supported by the police and militaries.
So yeah I totally kinda get you cos while I’d say I’m ML, I feel really I’m just happy with any form of socialism and my ML combined with an intersectional analysis of minority struggle is how I analyse society as I see it.
Tl;Dr I just want to improve things too and feminism, intersectionality etc with broader socialist understanding vs specific ideological frameworks is how I’ve find the most success is improving things locally.
We definitely need several conditions to change in the UK before anything revolutionary occurs I’m with you there. Some things are economic and some others could be pushed via some electoral policies, although I don’t see a pathway to electoral policies with Starmer and the purge he pulled. A lot of union sentiment has improved, but translating into new union members? I’m not seeing it happen fast enough. Another issue is the misogyny and bigotry that currently exists among MLs in the UK, created by the bizarre attempt at allying themselves with terfs and appealing to the man down the pub. This has been created by tories posing as the bloke down the pub to appeal to reactionaries, and somehow MLs have bought it as the depiction of the average working class person of the UK which is just plain nonsense, they’re trying to appeal to a caricature created by the bourgeoisie. Undoing this false mindset is very important to get MLs focused on the actually-vulnerable people, problem is that leadership in these parties is pushing it and there isn’t any way to dislodge that leadership without massive entryism from lgbt people who have already almost all left those parties.
I view our struggle currently as less an adventurist revolutionary fantasy on the horizon like I think a lot of newer ML fall into
I don’t think there is any problem with having a laser-focus on achieving revolution. It should be the question that guides all work we do, how our work contributes to future revolution, what prerequisites must be met, etc etc. While it’s not available as an option right now we should be identifying prerequisites needed for it and working to achieve them.
Preach!! I fully agree, I don’t really have anything to add tbh lmao.
Omg don’t even get me started on the ML parties in the UK. Its why I identify as a socialist now vs a proud ML. Its not just the UK parties but they are such a fantastic example of the cis het whiteness of male ML I’ve came to really struggle with.
Obviously it’s not all and I apologise if I sweeping statement people and tbh its less specifcially ML but just male Marxists in general but I’ve found difficulties with cis het male ML regarding trans and feminism which I frankly struggle to tolerate or look past. It’s this weird blend of paternalistic chauvinism “awwh look at the women and their feminism, we men need to protect them” sort of shit and then when we do anything to organise for ourselves I always see one jumped up cis het ML going “could this not be more revolutionary” without firstly any understanding of feminism and systemic sexism and secondly no understanding of how women will find push back and criticism for ANY organising whether it be strikes or protests by men vs men facing less push back in work/life for the same activities e.g. union work.
Like for all their posturing about material conditions they never fucking engage with that analysis so yeah I found myself becoming increasingly alienated from ML I meet irl and online outside of hexbear for the above reasons.
Don’t even get me started on takes regarding trans women.
Agreed and I think you’ve articulated for me how I see it, I think what feels like the fetishisation of a bloody October revolution-esque struggle is what I find a bit immature. Like I’m building towards breaking down capitalism, I’ll take whatever form of functional and successful means of achieving that appears thanks and as we’ve both said I think that’s building the foundations currently in the imperial core.
Marxism-Leninism is a really good politics for being right about everything. Being right about everything is no fun when you’re losing.
“tankie” has become such a pavlovian response to these people that the second they hear it they’ve decided they no longer need to consider anything this person might have to say. Like conservatives the second they hear something is “woke” and they throw a tantrum
Don’t forget “Nazi”
My grandma forgot my birthday, she’s literally Hitler!
I haven’t come across any Anarchist theory that explicitly forbids tanks…
I mean we kind of invented them with the tachanka
sorry fam the czech hussite protosocialists under jan zizka have that honor
though the quakers were pretty inspired by certain sects of hussites, so proxy of a proxy at least
Ukrainian anarchist leader Nestor Makhno pioneered the use of the tachanka en masse during the Russian Civil War.
When Ukraine was cool…
Fediverse libs only know to say “Tankie!” and cry.
That’s not true. Every once in a while they can be seen eating hot chip too.
i gotta say i literally do not give a fuck if an ML state or anarchism happens first or whatever. I JUST WANT THIS HELL TO BE OVER
Funny you should say https://twitter.com/RefuseRaccoon/status/1488653392389890049
That’s basically the stance I put forth in my pinned twitter thread lol
classic mistake. u see, tankie-ism is when you criticize people who love genocide. hope that helps!
It’s just really funny when like, look at my pfp lol
tbf i think these people think anarchists are tankies
they dont have a concept of what the word actually means
tankie just means “anyone to the left of me”, exhibit #10392
tankie has been rhetorically whittled down from its original 1950s CPGB infighting meaning to just a worthless slander against any and all anti-imperialists, regardless of political tendency.
“Tankie” is when the anti-imperialist does stuff, and it’s more tankie the more stuff it does, and if it does a real lot of stuff, it’s redfash.
I once saw someone call an anarchist Mastodon instance tankie because someone said something about killing all billionaires
I once described to a liberal friend a dream I had about commandeering a tank, spray-painting the name “Autistic Saudade” on the side, and using it to disperse a neo-nazi rally meant to intimidate refugees and immigrants from “undesirable” countries. My friend said that I “went full tankie on them” and expressed that he was “glad that [I] wasn’t a tankie”.
…What the hell’s that supposed to mean‽ That I’m just supposed to let neo-nazis intimidate refugees without consequence‽
That user’s instance defederated with us.
Not because of your exchange but because they thought these posts were serious
I’m sorry what’s wrong with those screenshots? I see not a single problem in any one of those screens??? Jokes about Blahaj, the IMF and some other stuff, staying inside Hexbear, is not a reason to defederate at all. Weird.
People having a good time joking among themselves on Hexbear is not disruptive behaviour. It’s not trolling, it’s not disruptive, it’s not harassment or abuse. Are there tankies here? Damn right there are. There are also anarchists, democratic socialists and there’s probably a socdem hiding somewhere that hasn’t yet been bullied too much for being a lib. This is just anticommunism. “Tankie instance” is just “they allow communists”. It’s incredible colony-brained shit, these people need to decolonise their minds.
One of the screenshots is literally just someone explaining how our custom emojis work lmao wtf
It has tankie in the name, definitive proof that we are evil.
It was me, I’m the horrible red-fash tankie explaining emojis
And even a trot!
(Hi, it me. I’m new here!)
I apologize in advance for all the
memes.I don’t
these fuckers just can’t stop lying. how is it possible that so many people keep repeating that we mass-downvote posts when we literally disabled downvotes years before federating
And we upvote people from our own instance 😱 the horror.
I’m doing my part!
How did they not recognize the Grover Iraq pasta. Netizens these days have no appreciation of history.
pawb.social just stated that they’re “the Furry Community’s hub on Lemmy.” Will someone from their depleted and neoliberal instance please inform them that we too have a Furry Community, but it is a much bigger & more powerful one than theirs, and our Furries can shitpost!All power to !furry@hexbear.net
i mean its not bigger right, 650 subs vs 1k users on pawb
They’ve made like only 4 public posts in the past 24 hours, which tbh is the arena that really matters
Sorry I got us further defederated. I thought that if I was more pro-American, it would appease these anti-tankies.
Aww I was having fun with one of them, I almost got them to post a whole source to back up their claims!
Idk why furries feel so strongly about communism. Shouldn’t they be arguing about furry stuff.
they thought these posts were serious
No way
wait did they seriously cite me making a /c/traa community as a reason to defederate? lmaoooo fuck off transphobes
I’m assuming that screenshot is about the tagline.
Yeah maybe they should make that clear 🤔
They’re seriously claiming they defederated with us because they thought “Operation IKEA Freedom” was serious.
Fuckin’ lmao they screencapped one of my comments explaining how emojis work as evidence that we’re tankies
LALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOUUUU I CANT HEAR YOUUU
A real anarchist would wholeheartedly believe CIA and fascist propaganda pieces about their ideological enemies.
It’s been real funny watching lemmy ppl call users whose views I’ve developed a nuanced understanding of tankies.
we’re all tankies down hereIt’s tankies all the way down.
and so on
(am tankie, was anarchist)
Removed by mod
That person you’re replying to refers to themselves as both an anarchist and socialist, I think their political understanding is non existent
Last thing she told me was that she was an ‘anarcho-socialist’
Wikipedia page level ideology
Vaushites
in a nutshell.
