• SlopppyEngineer@discuss.tchncs.de
        12·
        1 year ago

        Italians (Latin) and Greeks were salty before them. And the Anglo-Saxons will be salty when Chinese, Indian or an African language becomes the new lingua franca. That’s

        • Pelicanen@sopuli.xyz
          103·
          1 year ago

          Why would the lingua franca change again? No type of Chinese, Indian, nor any African language has even remotely the same spread as English does. I’d wager some proficiency in English exist in a sizeable part of the population in almost every country on earth, same can’t be said for most other languages (if any).

          • SlopppyEngineer@discuss.tchncs.de
            111·
            1 year ago

            If history is anything to go by, the English speaking world runs into some trouble. Nothing much new comes out in English while somebody else becomes dominant in research and publishes in their language. That’s getting picked up in academia and politics and if anyone wants to be up to date, they learn that language. The other language now starts to distribute their movies exposing more people who pick up that language and spreading from there.

            Sure, that can take a few generations. It’s not like everybody just decided to switch right now

            • Pelicanen@sopuli.xyz
              81·
              1 year ago

              The thing is, we can’t exactly go by history since we’ve never been as interconnected as we are now. Intercontinental travel could potentially be seen as “just” a huge step up in transportation compared to the past but the internet has fundamentally changed how we communicate. When it comes to technology and science, English is the de facto standard and it’s gonna take something pretty huge to disrupt that.

              • SlopppyEngineer@discuss.tchncs.de
                42·
                1 year ago

                Disruptions are in the near future. Energy systems are changing, climate change is going to wreck things, wannabe dictators starting wars and others. Usually one of those isn’t a problem but a lot of those at the same time wrecked past civilizations. But you can’t predict how it’ll all turn out.

                • Pelicanen@sopuli.xyz
                  1·
                  1 year ago

                  Yes, but the prerequisite is kind of that they will wreck the west (which is the main region keeping English as the lingua franca) but not the other regions when the west is likely going to be less impacted by a lot of issues than other parts of the world, for example just due to geography.

            • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
              3·
              1 year ago

              Never in history though has there already been a language this dominant across the world, has there? I look at it this way, two things need to happen for a new language to become dominant – there needs to be both an impetus and a strong candidate.

              I’m not entirely sure what impetus there would be. What we’ve had so far is everyone else using the language. What would cause that to happen? You’d need a sizable number of people who simultaneously have global influence and don’t typically use English. Right now one precludes the other. It’s why there isn’t a strong candidate either – the language would need to have widespread use and honestly be the preferred language in some fields globally.

              I can think of two possible candidates, but it’s still a stretch. Latin is probably the most widely used, but no one uses it conversationally. Japanese goes along with your comment about movies – the anime industry has been successful on a global level to the point that people prefer to listen to it in Japanese even if they don’t understand it.

              I think that’s the bellwether we need to look for. Whatever the successor language is, it will need to be adopted by people who don’t understand it but still prefer it. It faces the challenge of supplanting the dominant language for the entire globe, not just a region of the world.

      • droans@lemmy.world
        2·
        1 year ago

        The term lingua franca derives from Mediterranean Lingua Franca (also known as Sabir), the pidgin language that people around the Levant and the eastern Mediterranean Sea used as the main language of commerce and diplomacy from late medieval times to the 18th century, most notably during the Renaissance era. During that period, a simplified version of mainly Italian in the eastern and Spanish in the western Mediterranean that incorporated many loan words from Greek, the Slavic languages, Arabic, and Turkish came to be widely used as the “lingua franca” of the region, although some scholars claim that the Mediterranean Lingua Franca was just poorly used Italian.

        • Llewellyn@lemm.ee
          3·
          1 year ago

          I know. Joke is that frenchies see their language on the highest pedestal possible. And additional joke is in similarity of words “French” and “franca”.

    • raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world
      62·
      1 year ago

      Erm. English is the world language. In science and all international bodies. Why wouldn’t we use English to communicate with people from other countries when not at least one person speaks the native language of the other (yes, that happens, and then we don’t speak English)?

  • June@lemm.ee
    15·
    1 year ago

    And I deeply appreciate it.

    I learned Spanish in high school, but I never really had the opportunity to use it (grew up in a very insulated community where minorities weren’t exactly celebrated and ‘you’re in America speak English was a common sentiment) and lost it. I can still say ‘your mom smells like cheese when it’su see water’ and a few other things, but any semblance of conversational Spanish is gone.

    • Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      4·
      1 year ago

      I used to get mad at this meme because as an american we have a worse time in school learning other languages than europeans do. But I’ve dropped the shame and started spanish again from almost nothing. Maybe one day I’ll be fluent.

    • ???@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      2·
      1 year ago

      This. I appreciate everyone who has learned English, but more so than that I think having to learn it before moving to an English speaking country like mine is like expecting a baby to walk before it has been born. Take it from a half-Colombian who can’t understand a word of what my mom says on the phone to family members and friends, if you want someone to learn a language, the easiest way is complete immersion into a society that speaks it.

      Worst of all is any asshole who, say, goes to Mexico and thinks “because I’m an American and we are nationally owed $$ by Mexico I am entitled to be so arrogant as to think people should have to speak English when I go to Mexico on vacation”. It’s not just America to Mexico obviously, I could say Quebecios to Western Canada or Englishman to (insert country here) or Chinese to (insert country here) but I’m sure you get the general formula. Arrogant wealthier-than-average tourist, different culture with less material wealth, inevitable offensively bigoted comment.

      In such a case, I would absolutely tell the arrogant tourist that just because they’re rich and live in Nation X, does not make them entitled to being catered to, albeit with more colorful language because somehow idiots like that tend to realise they’ve gone too far and either apologize and stop or give one last angry quip and storm off to ragequit the conversation.

      The meme feels too accusatory, but I understand that language-wise I got lucky and most people have to work up to knowing a language with critical user mass. I will never expect anyone to HAVE to speak my language for any reason.

      I mean, with the specific caveat that if it’s an emergency and they know some English, ANY at all, we should probably go as far as we can to speak each other’s languages in a temporary pidgin until nobody is hurt or in danger. Aside from such time-sensitive situations, I’m definitely willing to learn from them as long as they acknowledge I hope they try to learn some English from me, but no obligation should be involved either way.

  • vsis@feddit.clEnglish
    152·
    1 year ago

    I envy native english speakers. They don’t have to waste time learning english.

  • Eochaid@lemmy.world
    13·
    1 year ago

    I write simple explanations in english because developers can only write simple instructions in code.

    • Ulv@feddit.nu
      2·
      1 year ago

      Perdon no hablo español. The only frases i know are una hamburguesa con patatas fritas y una cola and perdon por llegar tardes.

  • VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf
    143·
    1 year ago

    I speak (well, mostly write) English because it’s the only language that the vast majority of the world knows, including my girlfriend.

    Also, I’m a linguaphile and it has more words for me to play with than any other language 😁

    • raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world
      33·
      1 year ago

      Also, I’m a linguaphile and it has more words for me to play with than any other language 😁

      You are definitely missing a few…

        • lud@lemm.ee
          22·
          1 year ago

          But can you combine words to make up new grammatically correct words on the fly?

          We can make all kinds of words in our language.

            • lud@lemm.ee
              21·
              1 year ago

              Infixes are not very normal though and I would assume most languages have prefixes and suffixes.

              I mean more in the terms of people will get annoyed if you didn’t write two words together and instead separated them. And that is becoming pretty common since English is used a lot and you never do it in English, so people started doing it to our language as well (I’m also guilty)

              • VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf
                1·
                1 year ago

                Some people will always get annoyed when you play with language, doesn’t matter how you do it or with which language.

                English just happens to be exceptionally malleable and fun to play with, compared to most other languages including my native Danish 🤷

        • raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world
          12·
          1 year ago
          1. quantity of words has nothing to do with the potential of playing with a language / double meanings tc
          2. don’t believe every website you find in a google search
  • lemmonade@lemm.ee
    9·
    1 year ago

    in many cases, it’s the only language that all participants in the conversation understand, not the only one for each.

    but to be honest, if I could exchange my knowledge of my native language with the same amount of experience with something else (e.g. programming, math, etc.) I might take that deal (after moving to a primarily english speaking country of course).

    • gibbosus@thegarden.land
      4·
      1 year ago

      Would you really? (: Language not only is everywhere, but also determines your ability to express your thoughs and moreso also shapes them, as your conciousness is deeply comnected with language. Your whole worldview is heavily intertwined with it.

      I mostly realize this, when I do have to use another language to formulate my thoughs. It just feels like constantly having a giant headache. Just like right now :} I wouldn’t for anything trade the skills in my native language.

      • lemmonade@lemm.ee
        3·
        1 year ago

        not sure if I would, but I will definitely not rule that out. I think almost anything you learn changes how you think and can express your thoughts, although language does it in a more direct way.