[Breathes in…] it’s a breath of fresh air.

Translation: you have a fulfilling career and an actual life, rather than e.g. health issues that required some downtime as I did over the past year:-).

But I went through similar shock multiple times in my life, finding out that people are not what I thought they were. This recent USA election was yet another one, and the one that originally elected DT as well. It helps me understand people, which might be good I dunno, but it also makes me lose faith in the entire democratic system, especially in this post-information, disinformation age. It is like the system is under the assault of a foreign agent, which causes cancerous growths, yet we seem to have had zero immune system response to it. At which point this “body” is not “ours” anymore, it has been taken over. And yet, this is also the way that it has always been - e.g. predating the Civil War - but we were just fooling ourselves to think otherwise, again and again.

Anyway, back to the kids: they think differently than we did growing up, and also we ourselves did not pay attention at the time, but we too thought differently than others around us. That’s the reality to have to deal with, or else change careers.

A look at video games is instructive: before I was born even there were more “frustrating” games (that still persist today) like D&D where you go to all the trouble to make a character, then they die in some campaign, which gives people a “sad” feeling. Hence, most games don’t do that, preferring instead to build characters up and keep reintroducing them even if they leave, to really tell a STORY where they are the main character(s). Anyway, back to people irl: they prefer not to feel any sort of frustration at all - and btw if they do, it is the school’s fault (No Child Left Behind said so) - and instead just want short, simple, straightforward hops right into the magical “job-land”, where jobs are passed out like candy, yet do not involve doing the 4-letter word “work”.

Also, we could totally be surveilled by corporations here - everything is free and open to the public, including these very words I say right here & now. It is just that their surveillence does not dictate our user experience, as it did on e.g. Reddit, before we left it. And ofc they don’t want to resist - they hope to get jobs IN that very corporate hegemony!

Speaking of capitalism, the phrase “Make America Great Again” keeps reminding me of how the top marginal tax rate was like 90%, so the literal thing that made America GREAT was basically socialism, and government regulation reigning in the worst excesses of capitalism, i.e. I mean the slavery part. Unions were strong, protections were put into place, but then we (collectively) forgot, so now we’re losing them. It’s our own faults:-(. However, rather than return to the greater level of socialism that we had then, to make America truly GREAT again - an example could be to limit the purchasing of housing by corporations that have zero plans to actually live inside of them - we instead will turn to fascism, b/c that always ends well in history I suppose (by those who refuse to learn either “from it” or even “it” to begin with).

Get those thoughts out of your head: it will never happen. I am not saying that resistance is futile (hehehe), just that it needs to not be naive. The Democratic campaign we now see was not savvy enough to function, and if we were smart enough and could be open enough to have seen that, then we could have tried other things - e.g. perhaps Kamala Harris could have risked angering the extremely wealthy in a more desperate bid to keep DT from the throne, rather than act assured that she would win regardless. What the Fediverse is good for though - imho you understand ofc - is not to be subversive, and rather to enjoy, as you say, out from under the bootheels of corporate advertising. NO ADS is a fantastic selling point, even to those of us who use ad blockers to begin with.

BTW the mealtime videos moving has nothing to do with hexbear - it’s really a complicated situation that has little to do with anything toxic, and much more to do with how it would be preferrable to not have every single community on the entire Fediverse located at Lemmy.World. But if it is hexbear drama that you want, here is a perfect post to read: https://discuss.online/post/13387124. TLDR: they aren’t “leftist”, they are trolls who only pretend to be thus, exactly like the MAGATs that claim that they are “defending” (rather than overthrowing) democracy. And what’s more, they know it - they just don’t want you to say it, exactly like a toddler seeing what they can get away with.

Don’t forget the guy in The Matrix who CHOSE, nay BEGGED to be put back in. Apes Humans just want to “be comfortable”, it would seem. The thing that seems to get people out of that is pain, as the mother of innovation and all of that. 1984/Animal Farm. People are Sheeple. Like a drowning victim, you cannot help someone who refuses to be helped: you can only encourage / try to motivate them to try to change their own direction.

Which is why I think you will be a good teacher: b/c you care! Either that or a bad one, if you allow everyone to take advantage of you along the way and then break from the strain - b/c man is that whole system becoming predatory these days! Please, PLEASE take care of yourself - whatever you have to do in order to make that happen.:-)

Well said.

I mean on the one hand kinda yeah, and it was always going to be thus. On the other hand, allow me to encourage you by reminding you that your job was not to teach them about freedom & open-source goodness so much as critical thinking skills. So even if they don’t get it NOW, so long as they have the tools to get it LATER that will be enough.

If you are in America, then realize that No Child Left Behind did a grave disservice - sorry if you said that earlier and I forgot, though also, I am hearing of similar occurrences all around the world as the wealthy do not see a need for the middle class to exist any longer, hence are pushing to cut back funding for edumacashun.

Add to that how the current generation is all about achievements involving “scores”, not really intellectually curiosity - plus, how could they truly know much of anything anyway when the body of knowledge is now so much vaster than what a human brain could hope to comprehend? Which was always true in our lifetimes anyway, but now it’s true even for one field or even sub-field underneath a field, plus Googling existed - or at least did, whereas its demise lately might feel like a blip while we merely await its return, being rebirthed from the ashes of a purifying fire, a Phoenix of internet searching if you will? :-P Anyway, in the absolute height of irony, they literally cannot afford to be too curious, or they will be kicked out of college for refusing to “learn”.

But give them a few years after leaving it and… maybe they’ll turn around, some of them anyway? Perhaps your REAL job is to inspire in them a lifetime love of learning? :-P

It does bug me that spez was correct though - he really did see clearly into the hearts of the lazy bums who endlessly mindlessly scroll through content regurgitated from decades past, plus those actual niche subs that are too frightened to move away. Then again, we can be pretty toxic here as well, just like there, so is it really all that different here, vs. there, except that here we lack the content that they have there? I strongly, vehemently maintain that the MAXIMUM experience here is better, and probably the average is too but e.g. I was reading a post this morning where someone said that they thought that lemmygrad.ml was named that way as a joke and almost joined it, before realizing that it was serious - if they had though, then its being defederated by almost other instance would have enhanced its echo chamber effect enormously, by bringing in next to no outside material, only what is local on that instance itself. And could you imagine joining hexbear, or even making a post there unawares? I still shudder from my own experience of merely making a singular reply to a comment there, all of ONCE (something middle-of-the-road such as “at least Biden brought gas prices down just prior to the midterm elections, which helped Dems win those crucial Congressional seats, which isn’t nothing” - and I got my ASS handed to me for several WEEKS and WEEKS where they would just all pile on, long past when I was so done with it, and ngl after I made the same mistake in lemmygrad.ml I very nearly left Lemmy myself rather than put up with such a barrage - all from different accounts, mind you, so that blocking is horribly inefficient).

We are still fairly new, and dynamic, and all of us still learning how to make things work - e.g. https://slrpnk.net/post/15217190. But that’s also what makes it “exciting” for some of us. And yet, the interface and interactions are legit less polished overall, so it really does seem to endear itself more to those of us with an “early adopter” mindset. And maybe that’s okay, especially for now, and all the more so if that is what keeps us kind and worth coming here to:-).

Don’t lose heart. In the assignment sure, but deeper than that, you’re doing a good work - which I can say with certainty b/c you care, and that right there is basically everything? The details you’ll work out later:-P.

Okay but… blaming the other side gets tiring after a few decades. When will we blame those who allowed it, and moreover how much did Kamala Harris spend by comparison?

If it’s still too raw and early for such, please just ignore me. I’m still spinning, like all of us, and seeing desperately for some reasoning to help make sense of it all.

Yeah, advocating for literal murder, e.g. of someone who chooses to own stock, we have not only a toxicity problem but overall a quite shocking divergence from the experiences visible on other more moderated platforms, such as X (which also advocates for murder these days I hear, but only in such matters as are soon to be approved by The State, like giving cops free reign to murder anyone they choose - but only lasting for one hour, bc otherwise that would be just ridiculous, you know!?🤪🫠).

On the one hand, getting out from under the thumb of regulations is fantastic, compared to not being able to do thus at all. While on the other, people can be so unfriendly and waste so much of our time having to sift through such nonsense (as is sponsored by The Other, Opposing State).

So yeah, I guess it is a bit like 4chan? (Not that I’m speaking from personal experience, but from the stories told about it, it shares similarities?:-P) But then again, Internet 1.0 did not offer the ability to federate as we now can, so actually I think it’s a step forward, more than merely back - yes we are rolling back some features that were quite bad (corporate sponsorship), but we get to keep most of the good - e.g. the ability to view images and even videos directly inside the post without having to leave the site to view them elsewhere and then return. We have the best of both of those worlds!?:-)

That’s so cool! Do be careful but yeah, it is such a wonderful experiment. On the one hand, if I didn’t have access to Lemmy, I would never have found out that e.g. after Biden forbade the railway workers from striking (two Christmases ago iirc?), he worked with them for MONTHS to get them all the things they needed e.g. time off with paid sick leave. The corporate media (for the most part) refused to cover it, probably bc it was boring and they couldn’t sell ads as effectively with such content as well as something that bleeds and thus leads.

On the other hand, Lemmy also allows disinformation campaigns to spread too, e.g.:

(For one it ignores how both Russia and China are doing genocide - relevant bc on Lemmy.ml where it was posted you are only allowed to criticize such things when the “other side”, meaning Western capitalism, does it, so like you can say how the USA aids Israel’s genocide but you can not say how Russia is doing similarly in the Ukraine, or China to the Uyghurs, etc. - and it ignores that Trump has said that he will write Israel a blank check to do even more, instead seemingly pointing blame at Biden’s administration for doing genocide, all without ever saying so explicitly but that seems the implication, given the timing of it being released just prior to the USA election? Oh well, surely anything that fosters apathy among the voting populace could never influence the outcome now could it…? Edit: And the list of criticisms just goes on and on and on and on like that - still another is how it ignores how most “humanitarians” and even most PEOPLE in the USA are not okay with the genocide that is going on, so how is that not a strawman to say that “none such exist” as that would want to stop it, as distinct from the leadership that might also want to stop it, yet isn’t doing so, thus doesn’t seem to want to stop it bad enough, though it can NOT be inferred from that, imho at least, that human rights don’t exist here at all, or are not cared about at all - that seems quite hyperbolic to me, and again ignores how Trump will now do more than Harris would have.)

Setting politics aside now:-).

You might point people to !newtolemmy@lemmy.ca, and post to that community yourself anything that you want a new user to know?

Also check out PieFed - it lacks significant polish, e.g. if you tag my username there like @openstars@piefed.social I will not receive a notification bc that feature hasn’t been implemented yet, but especially for a student has such great resources so it at least is something to be very aware of and kinda show off what the Fediverse has to offer now plus where it is heading in the future. Especially as so many people want to get away from the “tankies” - e.g. Lemmy.World announced wanting to support a different project, Sublinks, though that one might be stalled at this point:-(.

Do let us all know how your experiment turns out? I mean make a post somewhere (and please tag me to make sure I see it!:-) so we can all be enriched by your efforts and the fruit that they bring:-). If you need a suggestion for a community, maybe… !fediverse@lemmy.world or !fedigrow@lemm.ee.

For people that enjoy using Arch btw Linux, we’re good yeah. Although occasionally some of us will die or whatever, and we need to have some level of growth or else accept that we will pretty much just shrink from now onwards. i.e., people talk as if we will go mainstream, or rather as if content will spring up magically from nowhere. If we want the small niches like Reddit has, we would need the userbase first. And to get that, we’d have to ditch our toxicity issues, make the UI more functional, and above all else make better moderation tools. Which I am doubtful will happen as the Lemmy devs seem happy with their current pacing and direction of changes - that’s 99% fine with me btw, as it’s theirs to do with whatever they please; though I am all the more happy to now see the likes of PieFed grow much quicker, even though it started out so very much further behind.

Fair point about PieFed being extremely tiny, and there are only 3 of them that are open to the public to join (https://join.piefed.social/try/) - though I am somewhat surprised to see the number of users for Mbin being so low. Yeah, I suppose they must be going back to Reddit, or perhaps Bluesky, or something else.

I am not sure how much to worry about the number of instances - on the one hand the long-anticipated 0.19.6 software release came out just today, which should fix the federation issues with Lemmy.World for many of them. On the other hand, smaller instances weren’t likely to want to pull down the entirety of the Fediverse to begin with, as an actual multi-user one (even if on the small side, like Discuss.Online or Aussie.Zone) would, plus once gone, wouldn’t we expect them to never come back, i.e. regardless of the software release today? So whatever turned them away… it would have been interesting to have known (though introverts would be the last to have offered such:-).

(The USA election surely - also talked about by people outside of the USA, e.g. I saw quite a few posts on lemmy.ml about it…)

Not… entirely. In March we had 54k Monthly Active Users, while now we have only 45k, that’s a not-entirely-insignificant drop of 17% of users. Also, personally I’ve created some alts during that time-frame, so if others did similarly… the real drop could have been much larger.

Ofc, it could have been that people simply dropped their older alts and are now happy with fewer alts but the same number of people - but that gets to that very old argument that Galileo had with others about whether the moon was perfectly smooth (due to spiritual implications) or not: he observed that it was not, though others raised their objections and tried to counter with the notion that perhaps there were mountains on the moon… but that if so, surely the valley regions were covered with glass, so that the moon retains the property (again, for reasons of spiritual purity) of being a perfectly spherical object?

Ofc you can guess what Galileo said to that: surely there must indeed be glass on top of the valley regions, so that they fill in the height of the mountains with an equal height of the glass valleys, which we cannot see b/c they are made of glass, <eyeroll>, yes indeed “surely” that “must” be the case - but also, in addition to that, there is EVEN MORE glass on top of the mountains, height proportional to how tall they are, and while we cannot see that material either, that is what is causing the differences in shadows, which he could measure with his spyglass that he pointed upwards into the heavens.)

Moral of that fun story: we can conjecture such matters all day long, and how fun that would be for both of us! But at the end of the day, all we have are the facts and numbers in front of us, however imperfect they may be:-).

That said, these numbers may particularly be bad, e.g. if anyone left Lemmy and went to Mbin and/or PieFed, then I think they would not be counted in those charts? I am not 100% certain about that, or much of anything really, but pretty darn close b/c of how the “software” field seems to work on that site, with the other buttons like List and on a particular chosen instance to look at more details, the Main Data tabulation (and see e.g. https://mbin.fediverse.observer/piefed.social, click to expand the Main Data, and that JSON output has “softwarename”: “piefed”, but nothing at all with the text string “Lemmy” there).

The total number of Lemmy instances has also dropped 24%.

Although the total number of both posts and comments has gone up rather than down - so we see a lot more activity, from a significantly smaller number of people. I wonder how sustainable that is though, e.g. next year won’t be an election year in as many countries as this one was. Overall I am worried about the health of the Lemmyverse, though less worried than ever before about the health of the overall Fediverse b/c of the newer software alternatives that have and are still coming:-).

Can you send us an example of such a post as you are talking about? B/c I am not seeing it. (Edit: oops that was old and I forgot to remove this sentence - see below.)

The most recent content on lemmy.blahaj.zone that I see from sh.just.works is from 2 hours ago: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/1688895/11494679, so those two definitely are federated (I checked and don’t see either one in the others’ instance blocked list). However, as expected the user https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/u/CDRMITTENS@sh.itjust.works has no content more recent than 7 months ago. They both say that they are running the same Lemmy version - 0.19.5.

Searching… seems not to work for these style of posts, b/c while the searches pull up zero results for common things like a single space, a colon (inside a URL?), the single letter “a”, etc., there actually are such posts, e.g. https://sh.itjust.works/post/27811262.

Also, !noncredibledefense@lemmy.blahaj.zone only has 10 posts total, but none are from cdrmittens.

So yeah I think you are correct - the old content that was already there in Blåhaj Lemmy’s database remains, for their content posted to !noncredibledefense@sh.itjust.works, but after the ban anything that the Blåhaj Lemmy tries to pull in for that user just gets discarded, and not added to the database. i.e. it has the old but not the new content, for that user. Most likely votes as well as posts or comments (b/c why would that be different?). Though since !NonCredibleDefense@sh.just.works has nothing to do with lemmy.blahaj.zone, they can continue to post on their own home instance - it is only Blåhaj Lemmy that will not see those posts, by design, b/c of the ban.

I hope that makes sense!:-)

I don’t know all the answers - nor have any of my own alts ever been banned so I did not have an occasion to look until now, but I see where the account is not removed, and in fact can be un-banned later. Here’s an irl example: https://lemmy.ml/u/sagxd (which we can see ourselves without an account on that instance - plus it is also visible from elsewhere e.g. https://lemmy.world/u/sagxd@lemmy.ml). You can read the story behind that incident in https://lemm.ee/post/45204357.

Most of the time how it seems to show up in the modlog, at least whenever it happens from lemmy.ml, is a slew of being banned from every community on the entire instance. Although there does seem to be a modlog entry to do differently (note the presence in the pull-down menu of “banning from site”), which despite not seeming to be (commonly? ever?) used from lemmy.ml, is indicated as often being used from other instances.

In particular I don’t know if a banned account can give or receive voting - I think I’ve heard people say both ways. I’ve saved your post and I’ll check back in later to see if someone can say with some actual knowledge what is going on!?:-)

Very true and very well said.

Though multiple things can be true at once - if both OP was acting in bad faith (I didn’t look) and people get banned from Lemmy.ml at the drop of a hat, i.e. moderation is done in bad faith as well.

I get what you are saying - and yes, compassion is awesome - but also, look at the history of that instance and you’ll see what I mean. If they really have lost the faith then they could step down as moderator of that instance and allow someone else to take that burden. Or just shut it down entirely (that’s what the dmv.social instance did, when they felt like the pressure was too much). Not that I am advocating for either option (especially since the next person who replaces them would likely be actively worse at this point?), but just pointing out that after receiving the bad vibes, spreading them further is still a matter of choice.

Yeah unfortunately it’s not quite ready for mainstream yet. I’ve noticed over the last several days that I’ve been using it a bunch of small UI things that would really frustrate someone without a high level of tolerance to such. e.g. you get a notification telling you that you have a message, you click it, but there’s no message; so you do a control-F to try to find it… nope, still no message; next you have to hunt through the entire page for every “expansion block” and “Continue thread” (which takes you to another page) and those “auto-collapse” (based on comment threshold), and I disabled “auto-hide” but surely that might really be a problem if there’s a Notification for something that becomes impossible to see later without changing your configuration settings.

For extremely basic things it’s fine… mostly. Just never edit your messages and someone will be fine. I say that b/c you can’t edit comments in-line in the page where they are at, and once you are done editing one, it doesn’t take you back to it but rather to the OP thread instead. Whereupon again you have to hunt for your comment all over again as mentioned above. Which is especially annoying when you have to do it multiple times, b/c there is no Preview feature to let you know what is coming after you submit it - did you insert a space between your [alttext] (link here)? did you mess up your "quoting" rules? does an image not render?

(the above on purpose:-)

On the other hand, they can allow YouTube embeds without having to wonder what is on the other side of that sus-looking link and click and leave the page. And personal instance blocks - that actually work - and categories, and like it will tell you, for every comment, both the time something was posted and the time it was last edited, woot!:-) There’s just a ton of fantastic features, more so than Lemmy in many ways, and yet at the same time less too - if that makes any sense at all.

But then again, more people know how to code in Python, so I hope it will catch up soon:-). That might even be what we’re seeing now - the core UI needs to be not monkeyed around with by a bunch of people all working at cross-purposes, but then all these nice little additions could each be someone’s side project? But they need to get the core working too.

Not really. Well, instance admins can defederate from it, but as a normal user you have a pitifully small list of all not easy choices. First, a couple apps like Sync and Connect can (but for them I don’t know if they would block e.g. images from there); second is move to PieFed or Mbin (I moved to PieFed myself, but could not find this post there so had to come back to my previous account, as an alt now I guess, to be able to reply here - so it’s got issues); third is move to one of only 3 tiny instances that I’ve ever heard of that have blocked it; fourth is spin up your own instance, and defederate from them. The long version.

Edit: oh, there is a basic Lemmy “instance block”, which blocks only communities on those instances - but not users, their posts, replies, votes, etc., and even that much was rolled back somewhere between 0.19.3 and 0.19.5 so that they can now send notifications to you. So it is very misleading named. The last one there is what almost caused me to leave the Fediverse entirely when I accidentally replied to one comment in ChapoTrapHouse and another somewhere in lemmygrad.ml. The replies to each kept coming in for WEEKS and WEEKS, long after I wanted it to end. The rule “remember the human” seemed to not apply to them.

Uh oh, but you said that you would never say the words “not good”… /s :-P

But yeah, the wisdom of the ages seems to tell us that “what goes around comes around” and “whatever system you choose to use to measure others with, you will end up using the very same system of measurement against your very own self” - i.e. if you don’t want others to be a certain way, like hypocritical, then don’t be that way yourself. It probably has to do with formation of the superego portion of our personalities, but however it is implemented, it seems to be an accurate description of human psychology.

So if we say that others are “stupid”… then isn’t that surely what we think that we do ourselves, at least sometimes? In contrast, if we allow ourselves to realize that others may not be “stupid” but merely “misled” or “mistaken in this particular area” or “in possession of incorrect facts with which to base conclusions upon” - all of these being very distinct from such thoughts as “they are most definitely dumb as a post” - then we see others more clearly, and also thereby are more accepting of our own very selves.

Which in turn allows us to see still other things (in the world, including both them and us) more clearly as well - i.e. instead of muddying the waters, we aim to see whatever is truly there. So it’s not even something that we need to do for the sake of “kindness” (to either them or ourselves), so much as it is necessary for deeper logical introspection as well.

Anyway, to me these words seem to conjure a thought like “don’t judge someone until you’ve walked a mile in their shoes”. Or the political variation “surely the leopards who eat everyone’s faces off would never eat my face off in particular!” The converse of either of these points to a weaker, lesser, lower, unclear form of thinking… that will ultimately wrap back around to hurt our very selves, despite how at first glance someone could think that they only intended to be negative against other people. But there is a better way, and that is to realize the truth of this principle: “what goes around comes around”. So simple… yet missed by what seems like everyone that I’ve ever met (including, you guessed it, myself! 🤣).

Enemies should think twice before “pissing off” (hehe) someone who has access to a crapulence cannon!

Sometimes a critique can be most helpful, especially if delivered with kind intentions.

Oh man how did I never hear of the great wide-open world of Star Trek pharts? :-P

- source

Definitely Reddit’s buildup was smart. The transition to profitability not so much. Although we’ll see.

Man, remember all those who kept arguing against it? I would say “Reddit is dying”, and these new accounts that had never visited my sub before we decided it should go dark suddenly appeared and started talking crap about anyone who criticized Reddit. That should have been a smoking gun alone for people to realize what was going on. But instead, people just said “yup, that’s Reddit for you”. Which extremely unfortunately… they were right, bc that is what it had become by that time.

i.e., spez didn’t kill Reddit by denying the usage of third-party apps - that was merely the final nail in the coffin for many of us, topping off a process that had begun several years earlier.