Transphobia in the fediverse - Discuss Online
discuss.online
I’ve only been on Lemmy a few days and I’ve already witnessed a lot of thinly veiled transphobia, anything from people dismissing the existence of trans people, to trying to claim we are predators. I’ve also seen people downvoted in the general communities for expressing trans support, or seemingly for no reason other than simply being openly trans or visibly queer. I know it’s an ongoing effort to moderate transphobia on Lemmy, and the fediverse as a whole. We have to also address mentions of thinly veiled transphobia and transphobic users. Transphobia isn’t just a differing opinion, it is a dangerous hateful sentiment which causes harm to vulnerable people and it needs to be addressed, at the instance and community level. We need to put in the effort to identify transphobic dogwhistles and language used by transphobes to eradicate this type of behavior from our communities and servers alike. Some people will argue that the light stuff isn’t something to worry about, but that’s not true. This is a tactic they use to blend in with normies and make them think that nothing they are doing or saying is wrong. It’s what transphobic right-wing YouTubers and Facebook users do to avoid being banned for hate speech. We are better than these corporations though, Fediverse is run by communities and for the users, we should not let these things slide as easily as Corporations do, they’re in it to make money, we… We’re in it to create a community for the users. Part of that means kicking out those who don’t have all our best interests at heart.

cross-posted from: https://discuss.online/post/12273255

I’ve only been on Lemmy a few days and I’ve already witnessed a lot of thinly veiled transphobia, anything from people dismissing the existence of trans people, to trying to claim we are predators. I’ve also seen people downvoted in the general communities for expressing trans support, or seemingly for no reason other than simply being openly trans or visibly queer. I know it’s an ongoing effort to moderate transphobia on Lemmy, and the fediverse as a whole. We have to also address mentions of thinly veiled transphobia and transphobic users. Transphobia isn’t just a differing opinion, it is a dangerous hateful sentiment which causes harm to vulnerable people and it needs to be addressed, at the instance and community level. We need to put in the effort to identify transphobic dogwhistles and language used by transphobes to eradicate this type of behavior from our communities and servers alike.

Some people will argue that the light stuff isn’t something to worry about, but that’s not true. This is a tactic they use to blend in with normies and make them think that nothing they are doing or saying is wrong. It’s what transphobic right-wing YouTubers and Facebook users do to avoid being banned for hate speech. We are better than these corporations though, Fediverse is run by communities and for the users, we should not let these things slide as easily as Corporations do, they’re in it to make money, we… We’re in it to create a community for the users. Part of that means kicking out those who don’t have all our best interests at heart.

    • Blazingtransfem98OP
      236·
      2 months ago

      Just as well, the Lemmy.world one was filled with transphobes and transphobia apologists. No progress to be made there unfortunately.

      Lemmy.world might be a lost cause, maybe defederation of .world should be more widely considered…

      • MBM@lemmings.world
        14·
        2 months ago

        The lemmy.world thread reminds me of a similar “racism on the fediverse” thread, and the occasional thread about misogyny (dismissive, uninterested and/or personally offended)

        • Blazingtransfem98OP
          92·
          2 months ago

          It does have all the worst qualities of Reddit, including the hate speech and the hateful downvotes, I saw many people on Reddit heavily downvoted in unrelated threads because they were openly trans on their profile. I’ve unfortunately seen the same thing on Lemmy from Lemmy.world comment sections and that’s just in the first 5 days of being here.

            • Blazingtransfem98OP
              2·
              2 months ago

              Yeah, and Reddit is one of the most toxic cesspits out there, they only banned subs like fatpeoplehate and itsafetish because of being advertiser friendly. If they hadn’t complained those subs probably still would be up spouting hateful garbage.

              • LustyArgonian@lemmy.worldEnglish
                1·
                2 months ago

                Yes I’ve been asking around, was new to Lemmy when I made my account, and have narrowed it down to 3 instances but am not totally sure which one to pick. I want to be able to post nudity, and I also do not want to be around people who are authoritarian (eg tankies) if possible.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                  5·
                  2 months ago

                  You can always just have multiple accounts, if you’re specifically trying to avoid Marxists but also liberals, dbzer0 is probably what you want, but you could also have a Lemmynsfw.com account as well.

                  Lemmy is lacking in Anarchist and NSFW instances from what I know of, so either you will want to go with a general purpose instance that doesn’t block NSFW instances and deal with liberals and Marxists also federated with the general purpose instance, or maintain 2 accounts. Some apps let you swap at the press of a button without needing to relog in. I personally have a Hexbear.net account and a Lemmy.ml account, the former for relaxing and checking the news, the latter generally for trying to get liberals to read theory, so I use Jerboa for Lemmy.ml and Hexbear.net through my browser (so I get access to the unique Hexbear emotes). Works well for me!

                  • Blazingtransfem98OP
                    1·
                    2 months ago

                    If going with lemmy.zip I recommend staying out of most of their local communities, a mod there who runs a good amount of the local communities on lemmy.zip is a transphobia apologist, maybe it won’t bother some people or won’t be an issue to them but generally I find that hanging out in communities run by people like that doesn’t end well when they eventually use their mod powers to push an agenda.

      • NaevaTheRat [she/her]@vegantheoryclub.orgEnglish
        6·
        2 months ago

        vegan theory club defedded world and while I miss some content the quality of commentator went up dramatically. Yeah I see some stuff I disagree with and I’m sure I bother some people too, sometimes accidentally ;) but that place is a fucking cesspit.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
          41·
          2 months ago

          Browsing Hexbear’s All vs Lemmy.ml’s All is night and day different in terms of average post and commenter quality. Lemmy.world and similarly aligned right-wing instances really drags down the average quality of discussions.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
      112·
      2 months ago

      Typical LW L. From the mods literally admitting to being anti-Marxist to failing to protect trans users, LW is sowing its own destruction.

      • Schmoo@slrpnk.net
        124·
        2 months ago

        Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds. This is just typical liberal progression.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
          105·
          2 months ago

          Yep, the mods have even openly expressed disdain for Marxism, referring to it as “a phase in college.” When you take a deliberately anti-Leftist stance, you become a welcoming space for the far-right, hence why instances that block Hexbear or Grad tend to be home to the most right-wing individuals on Lemmy.

          • Schmoo@slrpnk.net
            84·
            2 months ago

            instances that block Hexbear or Grad tend to be home to the most right-wing individuals on Lemmy.

            Don’t take this as a hard rule. My instance blocks hexbear and we’re a bunch of anarchists, we just saw the inter-instance drama and don’t want all that noise. Our memes community is often a target of derision for lemmy.world liberals. We tolerate liberals there but we absolutely don’t tolerate right-wingers.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
              93·
              2 months ago

              Not to be mean or anything but I’ve seen right-wing and “left” anti-leftism from slrpnk.net, hopefully y’all have cleaned that up more. I think an issue with Solarpunk is that ultimately it’s an aesthetic, not an actual strain of Socialism or anything, so it’s easy to coopt.

              Again, typically blocking Hexbear and Grad is a negative when it comes to the ideas held by the userbase of an instance in my personal experience.

              • Schmoo@slrpnk.net
                62·
                2 months ago

                “left” anti-leftism

                I mean, that sounds like your referring to anarchists criticizing authoritarian communism, which is certainly not something slrpnk admins and mods would have any interest in “cleaning up” given they are anarchists themselves. If you meant liberals then I did say that we tolerate them there, at least on the memes community. We believe in outreach.

                I think an issue with Solarpunk is that ultimately it’s an aesthetic, not an actual strain of Socialism or anything, so it’s easy to coopt

                That’s fair. Solarpunk is primarily an artistic movement, so it is vulnerable to co-optation in the same way that any artistic movement is. IMO socialists are in desperate need of a strong modern artistic movement and if we don’t want it to be co-opted we should be embracing it.

                Again, typically blocking Hexbear and Grad is a negative when it comes to the ideas held by the userbase of an instance in my personal experience.

                Perhaps it was an overreaction, I can’t say for sure because I think most of that drama played out before I joined lemmy. I have also never personally experienced right-wing anti-leftism on slrpnk.net so I might assume that we have cleaned that up.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                  33·
                  2 months ago

                  I mean, that sounds like your referring to anarchists criticizing authoritarian communism, which is certainly not something slrpnk admins and mods would have any interest in “cleaning up” given they are anarchists themselves. If you meant liberals then I did say that we tolerate them there, at least on the memes community. We believe in outreach.

                  Being anti-Marxist is definitely a big negative, especially since you tolerate liberalism. Believing in “outreach” by allowing liberals yet rejecting Marxism is where you get “left” antileftism. It would be better to be an enforced anarchist community intolerant of liberalism, which would help y’all avoid the problems I see with slrpnk.net. Grad has a strict Marxism-only platform, and it has no issues, Hexbear has strict left-unity and has no issues, but solarpunk isn’t defined by anything other than the aesthetic, so it becomes a source of “left” antileftism rather than just an Anarchist community.

                  That’s fair. Solarpunk is primarily an artistic movement, so it is vulnerable to co-optation in the same way that any artistic movement is. IMO socialists are in desperate need of a strong modern artistic movement and if we don’t want it to be co-opted we should be embracing it.

                  As a Marxist, I want to point out that this is more Utopianism, ie trying to come up with a formula and enforce it, rather than trying to steer development. The Superstructure, ie art, culture, laws, etc, comes from the Base, ie the Mode of Production. Art naturally follows and supports the Base. Trying to force an aesthetic onto a utopia, ie a better form of society you wish to implement directly, is difficult and prone to coopting.

                  Perhaps it was an overreaction, I can’t say for sure because I think most of that drama played out before I joined lemmy. I have also never personally experienced right-wing anti-leftism on slrpnk.net so I might assume that we have cleaned that up.

                  To be clear, calling Marxism “authoritarian Communism” is a form of left-punching. You may not believe anti-Marxism is anti-leftism, but the fact that you allow liberalism but not Marxism is where the issues come in. It would be better, again, to be a strictly Anarchist community, or to allow both liberals and Marxists, blocking out left-wingers in favor of right-wingers is where the cooption comes from.

                  Therefore, I would say you have 3 good solutions:

                  1. Unblock leftist instances like Hexbear and Grad, while retaining liberals as well. This way, outreach balances itself out

                  2. Block liberalism, this keeps Anarchism as the focus

                  3. Add lots of resources for theory and discussions for theory that go beyond how this “utopia” may function, ie how do we actually get there? I see lots of “what we stand fors” on the sidebar but very little in the way of actual praxis, which adds further to the cooption process. Hexbear has anarchist and marxist theory linked everywhere, even in the sidebars and taglines, same with Grad (which even maintains a wiki and beginner reading list). Solarpunk kinda just has the manifesto. Even a simple theory reading list can do wonders for the theory levels of your userbase.

                  Of course, you’re free to continue as you see fit, I’m just going to have the same issues with slrpnk.net. You don’t have to appease this random Marxist-Leninist, you don’t owe me anything, but I do think you’re harming your server by being more tolerant of right-wingers than Left-wingers you disagree with on practice.

                  • Schmoo@slrpnk.net
                    51·
                    2 months ago

                    You’ve given me a lot to think about but I do want to clarify my personal views a bit. I’m not anti-Marxist, I don’t believe authoritarianism is inherent to marxism, just that those tendencies are present. From my perspective authoritarian communism is to my right, so I don’t see it as left-punching, but I think the left-right metaphor is reaching the limits of its’ usefulness here.

                    Vladimir Lenin referring to “left-wing” communism as an infantile disorder is more in the ballpark of what I mean when I refer to authoritarian communism.