I wanna play a game with story interspersed with fun action combat… not keen on dying a million tonnes until I learn the timings for each enemy in order to be able to defeat them and get the next bit of story. Soulslike games aren’t accessible to me.
I mean, Souls is accessible to you, it sounds like it just isn’t for you. There are tons of games that I wish were made in a way that I’d enjoy more, features I’ve disliked, etc. But in almost all of those cases, someone loves those features the way they are, as is.
Like, for example, I don’t love JRPG combat. I would love to play and enjoy Persona 5, but eh, I’m just not interested in investing in those systems to play that game. But that game is beloved, as is. I would never go petition Atlus to make Persona 6 into a Soulslike so that I “could” play it.
And that’s great, there are a ridiculous amount of great games coming out every year, far more than I or basically anyone but full-time streamers have the time to play. So just… go play what you like?
Trying to make games that are “for” everyone is how we end up with soulless bland titles like Ubisoft keeps pumping out. Good games have to take risks, and make interesting decisions that alienate some and engage others.
I enjoy souls games and I’m okay with their difficulty but I honestly don’t get how the possibility of an easy mode upsets so many people. It doesn’t require much development time, if any, to scale down enemies.
This isn’t like implementing something that doesn’t exist or that fundamentally changes the gameplay. Scaling already exists.
It has literally 0 impact on your experience and would allow others to enjoy the game as much as you do.
This isn’t like implementing something that doesn’t exist or that fundamentally changes the gameplay. Scaling already exists.
Scaling sounds like it’d work, but in actuality, these games are designed with tough mechanics that you really have to learn before they make things more difficult. Take Sekiro for example. The endgame bosses will absolutely bully you. I’m not sure even 10x damage and health would help you get past the final boss if you don’t know what you’re doing.
While playing through the game, I got stopped in my tracks several times, stuck on a boss for hours while I learned how to parry, manage my stamina, deal with perilous attacks, etc. If I had been given a massive power boost, it would’ve only delayed my being forced to learn. And then, later, a much tougher boss would’ve stopped me in my tracks anyway, and I would be so behind on learning that it might turn into an impossible wall. Suddenly your “easy mode” has a much rougher difficulty spike than normal.
And the games are full of things that aren’t made easier by just… scaling. Like managing deathblight, areas like Lake of Rot, stuff like the awkward parkour and areas where you have to play around not falling off. That stuff would have to be reworked to accommodate a player who hasn’t learned proper positioning, or blocks, or just… the general tools of mastering the gameplay.
Slapping a basic scale on the game is a poorly thought out approach that would do more harm than good. To do “easy” right, you’d want a proper balanced game, with reworked timings and boss movesets, and frankly, I don’t think it’s worth the effort and extra development time and cost.
It has literally 0 impact on your experience and would allow others to enjoy the game as much as you do.
Two things here.
A) Adding an easy mode actually would make the game worse for me. When I’m stuck on a hard boss, grinding attempts for hours, that isn’t immediately fun. It builds to a worthwhile payoff, which is why I love these games. But when you’re in it, an easy mode makes you feel like an idiot, wasting your own time suffering when you could walk right past at any moment. Except that lowering the difficulty to bypass something feels terrible, and also, puts you in the position I described above. It robs you of the satisfaction of conquering it and replaces that with guilt and feeling like you couldn’t do it.
B) Someone cruising through on Easy wouldn’t “enjoy the game as much as I do”. Engaging with, and mastering these mechanics is a huge part of what makes these games enjoyable. Skipping that side of the game, jumping past the difficulty robs you of the satisfaction of beating it.
Also, I think many people would enjoy the experience Souls offers, if they’re willing to give it a shot. One of my best friends used to play every game on easy, “why struggle when I could move on and see more of the game?”. He got into Dark Souls 1, and had a hell of a time with it. But because there wasn’t an easy mode, he persevered, and found he loved the stiff challenge and the payoff of beating a boss that really challenged him, and in finding mastery in the mechanics. He’s now a diehard, who’s done SL1 runs of many of the games, and usually starts new games on Hard these days. In a world where DS1 offered an easy mode, he never would’ve tried the designers intended experience, and Souls would’ve been just another decent action adventure.
Souls is offering a rare experience, with tons of alternatives that do offer an easier time. Why not let it shine and highlight what it does better than anyone else?
I don’t really think this is a good argument. Other games offer enjoyable experiences on normal difficulties and then offer a serious challenge by scaling up in higher difficulties. I remember original God of War (ps1 or ps2) was stupid easy on default difficulty and quite hard on the highest difficulty.
Your point 2) is just your biased view of the world, really. You think other people can’t enjoy something as much as you unless they do exactly as you. Different people like different things and it’s nice to have a choice. I don’t think gatekeeping game genres just because is a good thing.
Sure, lots of games offer high difficulties, but often, those aren’t nearly as good as a game that’s tailored from the ground up to make that experience good in the way Souls is. Scaling Health and Damage makes things hard, but frequently just turns enemies tanky and slow to kill, or forces you to play the game super cautiously. That’s fine, and an easy to add option for diehard players, but it doesn’t hold a candle to what a game designer can accomplish when creating a bespoke experience. That’s what Souls is, and what has made it such a smashing success.
Also, I don’t think it’s just a biased worldview here. What you’re suggesting is just subtracting mechanical depth and mastery from the experience. It’s not like an easy mode would add anything to the game, it would only take my favourite things about it, and move you out of the carefully designed, bespoke experience into a crude imitation of it.
Your agency is taken away here for good reason, so that you don’t make the experience worse for yourself. If From Soft didn’t believe in the experience they’ve crafted, they would’ve added a simple scaling difficulty like you’re suggesting years ago, but the artists who make these games have consistently decided to resist the pressure and make the game they want to make.
Exactly, my point is that the design of Sekiro is so fundamentally unforgiving that giving you a stats advantage wouldn’t make the final fights substantially easier, and letting you get there without properly learning from the content beforehand would be like trying to teach a child factorials before you’ve ensured they properly understand addition and multiplication.
In this very thread, there’s a comment from a person playing Sekiro with a mod to scale the game down substantially who’s still finding the game prohibitively difficult. That problem is only going to get worse as they get further, and there’s good reason the devs haven’t implemented a naive difficulty scaling like this.
Exactly, my point is that the design of Sekiro is so fundamentally unforgiving that giving you a stats advantage wouldn’t make the final fights substantially easier
I don’t agree with this. Fundamentally being able to tank more hits, being able to make more mistakes would make it easier.
letting you get there without properly learning from the content beforehand would be like trying to teach a child factorials before you’ve ensured they properly understand addition and multiplication.
You’re misunderstanding, someone can know how to do it entirely, that doesn’t mean they can input reliably enough to not make mistakes.
In this very thread, there’s a comment from a person playing Sekiro with a mod to scale the game down substantially who’s still finding the game prohibitively difficult.
That’s not what their comment said. They said they’re still finding it difficult, and imply it would be prohibitive if it weren’t for the mod. So yea the stat scaling is working for them.
In addition to the other comment, you can easily choose to make the game easy. The developers just ask that you pay attention. You can go explore and increase your level and improve your equipment to trivialize almost everything. If you choose the right gear, most bosses are very easy. You just want the victory handed to you, which is fine but that’s not the game they made. It’s totally OK to not like the game, but don’t pretend that’s the same thing as accessibility. You’re perfectly capable of completing the games. You just don’t want to. That’s cool. Go play any modern AAA that coddles you.
I wanna play a game with story interspersed with fun action combat… not keen on dying a million tonnes until I learn the timings for each enemy in order to be able to defeat them and get the next bit of story. Soulslike games aren’t accessible to me.
I mean, Souls is accessible to you, it sounds like it just isn’t for you. There are tons of games that I wish were made in a way that I’d enjoy more, features I’ve disliked, etc. But in almost all of those cases, someone loves those features the way they are, as is.
Like, for example, I don’t love JRPG combat. I would love to play and enjoy Persona 5, but eh, I’m just not interested in investing in those systems to play that game. But that game is beloved, as is. I would never go petition Atlus to make Persona 6 into a Soulslike so that I “could” play it.
And that’s great, there are a ridiculous amount of great games coming out every year, far more than I or basically anyone but full-time streamers have the time to play. So just… go play what you like?
Trying to make games that are “for” everyone is how we end up with soulless bland titles like Ubisoft keeps pumping out. Good games have to take risks, and make interesting decisions that alienate some and engage others.
Exactly!!!
Not every game is made for you!
Don’t like the gameplay or the challenge, you are welcome to switch to something else.
Why do people expect everything to cater to their preferences?
I enjoy souls games and I’m okay with their difficulty but I honestly don’t get how the possibility of an easy mode upsets so many people. It doesn’t require much development time, if any, to scale down enemies.
This isn’t like implementing something that doesn’t exist or that fundamentally changes the gameplay. Scaling already exists.
It has literally 0 impact on your experience and would allow others to enjoy the game as much as you do.
Scaling sounds like it’d work, but in actuality, these games are designed with tough mechanics that you really have to learn before they make things more difficult. Take Sekiro for example. The endgame bosses will absolutely bully you. I’m not sure even 10x damage and health would help you get past the final boss if you don’t know what you’re doing.
While playing through the game, I got stopped in my tracks several times, stuck on a boss for hours while I learned how to parry, manage my stamina, deal with perilous attacks, etc. If I had been given a massive power boost, it would’ve only delayed my being forced to learn. And then, later, a much tougher boss would’ve stopped me in my tracks anyway, and I would be so behind on learning that it might turn into an impossible wall. Suddenly your “easy mode” has a much rougher difficulty spike than normal.
And the games are full of things that aren’t made easier by just… scaling. Like managing deathblight, areas like Lake of Rot, stuff like the awkward parkour and areas where you have to play around not falling off. That stuff would have to be reworked to accommodate a player who hasn’t learned proper positioning, or blocks, or just… the general tools of mastering the gameplay.
Slapping a basic scale on the game is a poorly thought out approach that would do more harm than good. To do “easy” right, you’d want a proper balanced game, with reworked timings and boss movesets, and frankly, I don’t think it’s worth the effort and extra development time and cost.
Two things here.
A) Adding an easy mode actually would make the game worse for me. When I’m stuck on a hard boss, grinding attempts for hours, that isn’t immediately fun. It builds to a worthwhile payoff, which is why I love these games. But when you’re in it, an easy mode makes you feel like an idiot, wasting your own time suffering when you could walk right past at any moment. Except that lowering the difficulty to bypass something feels terrible, and also, puts you in the position I described above. It robs you of the satisfaction of conquering it and replaces that with guilt and feeling like you couldn’t do it.
B) Someone cruising through on Easy wouldn’t “enjoy the game as much as I do”. Engaging with, and mastering these mechanics is a huge part of what makes these games enjoyable. Skipping that side of the game, jumping past the difficulty robs you of the satisfaction of beating it.
Also, I think many people would enjoy the experience Souls offers, if they’re willing to give it a shot. One of my best friends used to play every game on easy, “why struggle when I could move on and see more of the game?”. He got into Dark Souls 1, and had a hell of a time with it. But because there wasn’t an easy mode, he persevered, and found he loved the stiff challenge and the payoff of beating a boss that really challenged him, and in finding mastery in the mechanics. He’s now a diehard, who’s done SL1 runs of many of the games, and usually starts new games on Hard these days. In a world where DS1 offered an easy mode, he never would’ve tried the designers intended experience, and Souls would’ve been just another decent action adventure.
Souls is offering a rare experience, with tons of alternatives that do offer an easier time. Why not let it shine and highlight what it does better than anyone else?
I don’t really think this is a good argument. Other games offer enjoyable experiences on normal difficulties and then offer a serious challenge by scaling up in higher difficulties. I remember original God of War (ps1 or ps2) was stupid easy on default difficulty and quite hard on the highest difficulty.
Your point 2) is just your biased view of the world, really. You think other people can’t enjoy something as much as you unless they do exactly as you. Different people like different things and it’s nice to have a choice. I don’t think gatekeeping game genres just because is a good thing.
Sure, lots of games offer high difficulties, but often, those aren’t nearly as good as a game that’s tailored from the ground up to make that experience good in the way Souls is. Scaling Health and Damage makes things hard, but frequently just turns enemies tanky and slow to kill, or forces you to play the game super cautiously. That’s fine, and an easy to add option for diehard players, but it doesn’t hold a candle to what a game designer can accomplish when creating a bespoke experience. That’s what Souls is, and what has made it such a smashing success.
Also, I don’t think it’s just a biased worldview here. What you’re suggesting is just subtracting mechanical depth and mastery from the experience. It’s not like an easy mode would add anything to the game, it would only take my favourite things about it, and move you out of the carefully designed, bespoke experience into a crude imitation of it.
Your agency is taken away here for good reason, so that you don’t make the experience worse for yourself. If From Soft didn’t believe in the experience they’ve crafted, they would’ve added a simple scaling difficulty like you’re suggesting years ago, but the artists who make these games have consistently decided to resist the pressure and make the game they want to make.
No one’s talking about not knowing what they’re doing, they’re talking about physical difficulty performing it unforgivingly
Exactly, my point is that the design of Sekiro is so fundamentally unforgiving that giving you a stats advantage wouldn’t make the final fights substantially easier, and letting you get there without properly learning from the content beforehand would be like trying to teach a child factorials before you’ve ensured they properly understand addition and multiplication.
In this very thread, there’s a comment from a person playing Sekiro with a mod to scale the game down substantially who’s still finding the game prohibitively difficult. That problem is only going to get worse as they get further, and there’s good reason the devs haven’t implemented a naive difficulty scaling like this.
I don’t agree with this. Fundamentally being able to tank more hits, being able to make more mistakes would make it easier.
You’re misunderstanding, someone can know how to do it entirely, that doesn’t mean they can input reliably enough to not make mistakes.
That’s not what their comment said. They said they’re still finding it difficult, and imply it would be prohibitive if it weren’t for the mod. So yea the stat scaling is working for them.
In addition to the other comment, you can easily choose to make the game easy. The developers just ask that you pay attention. You can go explore and increase your level and improve your equipment to trivialize almost everything. If you choose the right gear, most bosses are very easy. You just want the victory handed to you, which is fine but that’s not the game they made. It’s totally OK to not like the game, but don’t pretend that’s the same thing as accessibility. You’re perfectly capable of completing the games. You just don’t want to. That’s cool. Go play any modern AAA that coddles you.