• givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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    8 hours ago

    “Under the deal reached today, effective at 4:00 a.m. tomorrow, local time, the fighting across the Lebanese Israeli border will end,” Biden said in the White House Rose Garden.

    “This is designed to be a permanent cessation of hostilities,” he added. “What is left of Hezbollah and other terrorist organizations will not be allowed, I emphasize, will not be allowed, to threaten the security of Israel again.”

    Can never tell if Biden is saying what he means to say, or his mind went on a walkabout…

    But it sounds like that’s less of an equal ceasefire and more that Israel will restart if they hear anyone complain about Israel’s actions…

    Like, Biden is literally threatening them, that if they threaten Israel that’s enough for a war…

    And he probably legit believes this is fair and equal

    • maplebar@lemmy.world
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      7 hours ago

      Hamas is free to agree to a ceasefire at any time of their choosing, contingent mostly on their willingness to hand over the remaining hostages. Allah knows they’ve had many opportunities thus far, so what’s stopping them?

      • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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        5 hours ago

        Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.

        This isnt about the hostages, this is Israel engaging in Genocide to eradicate and forcibly displace the Palestinian people. Gaza has never stopped being under Israeli occupation since 1967. Hamas only exists because of the Apartheid Occupation of Israel and the daily violence that has subjected Palestinians to for generations. Israel has always been the obstacle for peace, and has been the one preventing a ceasefire.

        De-development via the Gaza Occupation

        Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah.

        Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.’ In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah.

        • Page 105

        Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986.

        • page 240

        In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60% over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50% decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (combined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million.

        • Page 402

        • The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy

        Blockade, including Aid

        Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.

        After the ‘disengagement’ in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of ‘dual-use’ Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted.

        The blockade and Israel’s repeated military offensives have had a heavy toll on Gaza’s essential infrastructure and further debilitated its health system and economy, leaving the area in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis. Indeed, Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, the majority of whom are children, has created conditions inimical to human life due to shortages of housing, potable water and electricity, and lack of access to essential medicines and medical care, food, educational equipment and building materials.

        Peace Process and Solution

        Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution

        How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

        ‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

        One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

        Human Shields

        Hamas:

        Intentionally utilizing the presence of civilians or other protected persons to render certain areas immune from military attack is prohibited under international law. Amnesty International was not able to establish whether or not the fighters’ presence in the camps was intended to shield themselves from military attacks. However, under international humanitarian law, even if one party uses “human shields”, or is otherwise unlawfully endangering civilians, this does not absolve the opposing party from complying with its obligations to distinguish between military objectives and civilians or civilian objects, to refrain from carrying out indiscriminate or disproportionate attacks, and to take all feasible precautions to spare civilians and civilian objects.

        Israel:

        Additionally, there is extensive independent verification of Israel using Palestinians as Human Shields:

        Deliberate Attacks on Civilians

        Israel deliberately targets civilian areas. From in general with the Dahiya Doctrine to multiple systems deployed in Gaza to do so:

        Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.

      • small44@lemmy.world
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        6 hours ago

        This like saying Ukraine is free to agree to Russians and make huge concessions

        • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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          5 hours ago

          Yeah if Ukraine invaded Russia, executed some children and took hundreds of hostages, then it’s exactly the same

          • small44@lemmy.world
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            5 hours ago

            Russia occupied part of Ukraine and Israel occupied the West bank and imposing a devastating blockade in Gaza. The comparison is very accurate. Arresting people including kids in occupied West bank is literally kidnapping. Israelis been killing Palestinians including kids since it’s creation

            • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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              4 hours ago

              Ok so Ukraine held part of Russia after a previous conflict and was kidnapping kids there, causing Russia to invade Crimea

              Sorry that’s a perfect comparison indeed

              Maybe you can draw parallels with the Khmer Rouge as well to clear things up for us

              • small44@lemmy.world
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                3 hours ago

                So you are going to ignore the valid comparison that Israel and Russia are the occupiers therefore responsible from the legitimate and illegitimate attacks by the occupied and you are going to ignore Israelis kidnapping and killing palestinians for decades?

    • iii@mander.xyz
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      7 hours ago

      What about Sudan Biden? What about mexico biden? What about DRC biden? What about Myanmar Biden? Eh eh eh ??!!

      Is this really how your mind operates?

        • iii@mander.xyz
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          7 hours ago

          I’m questioning the first comment’s rethoric.

          • small44@lemmy.world
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            7 hours ago

            He is asking Biden to at least advocate for imposing pressure on Israelis if it can’t do it

            • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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              5 hours ago

              I’m sure if Hamas agreed to retreat 20 miles from the border they’d get the same deal

              • small44@lemmy.world
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                5 hours ago

                I am sure if Israel didn’t decide to invade the West bank and Gaza in 67 they would live in peace

                • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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                  4 hours ago

                  I’m not sure if you’re joking, but if you’re not, you might want to read a little about the war you’re referencing.

                  Israel invaded those territories because Jordan and Egypt were using them to launch a surprise attack.

                  “Live in peace” is a bit subjective in your example lol

                • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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                  4 hours ago

                  I’m sorry I have to explain this. In the case of Hezbollah, they’re agreeing to retreat to a distance from the border from where they can’t (significantly) attack Israel again. The poster I’m replying to questions why Israel can’t (be forced to) make a similar deal with Hamas. I’m using sarcasm to point to an important reason why

            • iii@mander.xyz
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              6 hours ago

              That’s a surprising, to me, interpretation of that comment. Can you please point out to me where the comment argued for diplomacy?

                • iii@mander.xyz
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                  6 hours ago

                  Sure. Line-by-line we venture:

                  Sooo…what about Gaza, Biden?

                  No indication of argueing for diplomacy

                  What about Palestine, Biden?

                  Idem

                  Eh?

                  Idem

                  Eh??

                  Idem

                  In conclusion: to the best of my abilities, I fail to see how this comment argues for diplomacy.

                  “He is asking Biden to at least advocate for imposing pressure on Israelis if it can’t do it”, so far as I can see, that tought is not present in that comment.

      • maplebar@lemmy.world
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        7 hours ago

        This is what people acting in bad faith do; constantly moving the goalposts so that they are never satisfied with the people who they never intended to give credit in the first place. There could be a ceasefire in Gaza tomorrow and people would find some new shit to gripe about.

        Welcome to the hamster wheel of modern political hackery.

  • werefreeatlast@lemmy.world
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    5 hours ago

    I sort of recall that these hezbowlers and their friends eeeseeess pieces removed the thinking part from one of our comrades in the media. It’s been a weird sort of war. Accordingly Israel has actually murdered thousands of children, women and other innocent people including members of the media. The war was started by an attack from the loosing party. Israel shot and killed a woman Journalist named Shirin Abu Akhala may 2022 this before the war really started. Maybe she knew something the rest of us didn’t about the incoming war? Now the entire country has been erased apparently with a small portion of the population remaining. So now is the right time to stop? 😞🛑. I mean sure it should stop. But like we all thought it was time to stop right after it began and the reports started coming in about innocent people being murdered. Then came images of total destruction and murder by drone like remote extermination. Anyway, Trump is an idiot, so if a smart person didn’t stop the war, maybe a total retard can?

  • answersplease77@lemmy.world
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    7 hours ago

    A decision to instantly save money, save economies, save lives and people’s blood, save the climate, and start talking like humans instead of luanching metals into each other. I hate wars and the people who profit from destruction of the planet and mass bloodsheding of civilians. Israel’s war crimes fully sponsored, supported and funded by the US have shown their true image oppressing and genociding whom they illegally colonize.
    Their hypocrasy made putin look good taking over Ukraine, and legitimized China’s intent to take over Taiwan by so many levels. You don’t have the right to defend injustice and what you colonize from others wether your name was Israel, Russia, or China. and everyone is sick of hearing about those Western values then seeing them on display as ethnic cleansing and genocide against oppressed stateless people in a ethnostate aparthied.

  • iii@mander.xyz
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    8 hours ago

    So the clusterfuck Hezbollah - Lebanese government will continue.

    • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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      5 hours ago

      They were never going to eradicate them entirely. But their weight in Lebanon has certainly been reduced. Even more if they break the ceasefire again

      • Not_mikey@slrpnk.net
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        2 hours ago

        Their approval among there base of shias has only gone up since the conflict started, there approval among non shias has remained constant. Your assuming that Lebanese view the situation as western media portrays it with hezbollah as terrorists and the ones to blame for the destruction but:

        Seventy-eight percent of Lebanese respondents said Israel’s onslaught of Gaza was a “terrorist act”, while only 11 percent viewed Hezbollah’s attacks on northern Israel as “terrorism”.

        This jump in approval among there base is despite them being in government and a horrific economic situation in Lebanon, that’s how much the shia in south Lebanon hate israel and its genocide in Gaza.