Everyone seems to miss the whole point of the story of Job.
The point is that he is pious even at the worst of times. His faith in Yahweh isn’t because his faith is rewarded, or that his life is good.
And that true faith overcomes and resists all temptation, even when times are at their hardest.
The story is however a great example of the objectification of women though, when his wife is replaced by a younger, hotter, one at the end.
Everyone understands that, that’s a surface-level reading not some secret hidden meaning. The problem is if you take more than a second to think about it instead of just taking the story at face value you see the real relationship here.
You have one horrifically vile being ruining someone’s life even though the victim worships them. The victim continues to worship them in spite of their atrocities just because they’re powerful.
It’s touted as a story about how you should just keep blind faith in the powerful but that’s really the exact opposite of what it shows. And it’s more relevant now than ever, I’m sure it’ll take you no effort at all to think of another toxic parasocial relationship.
This. ALL of this. I hate the story of Job because it just encourages people to accept abuse.
Unfortunately, this plays into why Christianity spread so far to start with. Storues like this reinforce class dynamics, which means ruling classes around the world want to implement them, and since they have more political power they have that ability.
This is a large part of why the vikings moved away from paganism to Christianity. It simply benefitted the rulers, from chiefs to kings. So they eventually forced their people to switch under threat of execution.
I think, and it’s hard for me as an agno-atheist to really put myself in a devout person’s shoes, making the religuosity too reward based.
Actually devout people aren’t that for an afterlife reward, they’re religious because of actual faith that it’s better for the world.
If anyone only holds to their faith for whatever it’s purported benefits are, they’re not pious, simply herd followers who would cling to whatever creed they were raised under.
I doubt this. Atheists (myself included) often get the frustrating question of “what stops you from harming people if you don’t believe in Hell?” when people learn about our lack of faith.
Many of them think that promises of reward and punishment are the only thing ensuring that people act morally.
If you’ve ever talked to a religious conservative American, many of them believe that religion, particularly Christianity, has a monopoly of defining what morality is.
The most important part of the story (to me) is when his friends come and tell Job that he must be evil to deserve misfortune. Job knows he has been good and faithful and he is strong in that belief, so instead of accepting their backwards reasoning, he goes to ask God for an explanation.
(This actually shows his belief in his own faithfulness is stronger than his belief that God will be good to the faithful and he is justified by the next part.)
After much begging and pleading, God gives him an explanation, but it is “sorry bro, Gods don’t really care about mortal suffering”.
Then after God proved his point, he rewards Job after all, but it’s honestly a cop-out to let the story have some other ending than just “and then Job fucking died”. I think the story is older than the idea of heaven or Job could have had his reward there. Might have gelled better with the New Testament.
OK, maybe I missed the memo on that as I keep seeing it as a go to to show that “belief is stupid” , or that “religion is dumb”, which there are far better story picks to show.
Cause the comic here making Job’s faith about protecting his family is not what Bible Job would pray for. But I’m probably putting too much into a cute little gotcha! comic for anti-thiests.
The point is that he is pious even at the worst of times.
that’s one take.
Another: the point is that if god will treat the most pious this way, when he likes job, what will he do to the nonbeliever? better have faith or else.
Everyone seems to miss the whole point of the story of Job.
The point is that he is pious even at the worst of times. His faith in Yahweh isn’t because his faith is rewarded, or that his life is good.
And that true faith overcomes and resists all temptation, even when times are at their hardest.
The story is however a great example of the objectification of women though, when his wife is replaced by a younger, hotter, one at the end.
Capitalist myth that working makes you a more pious person, no, being pious makes you a more pious person
Everyone understands that, that’s a surface-level reading not some secret hidden meaning. The problem is if you take more than a second to think about it instead of just taking the story at face value you see the real relationship here.
You have one horrifically vile being ruining someone’s life even though the victim worships them. The victim continues to worship them in spite of their atrocities just because they’re powerful.
It’s touted as a story about how you should just keep blind faith in the powerful but that’s really the exact opposite of what it shows. And it’s more relevant now than ever, I’m sure it’ll take you no effort at all to think of another toxic parasocial relationship.
This. ALL of this. I hate the story of Job because it just encourages people to accept abuse.
Unfortunately, this plays into why Christianity spread so far to start with. Storues like this reinforce class dynamics, which means ruling classes around the world want to implement them, and since they have more political power they have that ability.
This is a large part of why the vikings moved away from paganism to Christianity. It simply benefitted the rulers, from chiefs to kings. So they eventually forced their people to switch under threat of execution.
I think, and it’s hard for me as an agno-atheist to really put myself in a devout person’s shoes, making the religuosity too reward based.
Actually devout people aren’t that for an afterlife reward, they’re religious because of actual faith that it’s better for the world.
If anyone only holds to their faith for whatever it’s purported benefits are, they’re not pious, simply herd followers who would cling to whatever creed they were raised under.
You just described every religious person. Christians especially, waiting for the kingdom in heaven.
I doubt this. Atheists (myself included) often get the frustrating question of “what stops you from harming people if you don’t believe in Hell?” when people learn about our lack of faith.
Many of them think that promises of reward and punishment are the only thing ensuring that people act morally.
If you’ve ever talked to a religious conservative American, many of them believe that religion, particularly Christianity, has a monopoly of defining what morality is.
The most important part of the story (to me) is when his friends come and tell Job that he must be evil to deserve misfortune. Job knows he has been good and faithful and he is strong in that belief, so instead of accepting their backwards reasoning, he goes to ask God for an explanation.
(This actually shows his belief in his own faithfulness is stronger than his belief that God will be good to the faithful and he is justified by the next part.)
After much begging and pleading, God gives him an explanation, but it is “sorry bro, Gods don’t really care about mortal suffering”.
Then after God proved his point, he rewards Job after all, but it’s honestly a cop-out to let the story have some other ending than just “and then Job fucking died”. I think the story is older than the idea of heaven or Job could have had his reward there. Might have gelled better with the New Testament.
No, we got the point.
You missed the one where that’s the ideology of an abuser.
OK, maybe I missed the memo on that as I keep seeing it as a go to to show that “belief is stupid” , or that “religion is dumb”, which there are far better story picks to show.
Cause the comic here making Job’s faith about protecting his family is not what Bible Job would pray for. But I’m probably putting too much into a cute little gotcha! comic for anti-thiests.
that’s one take.
Another: the point is that if god will treat the most pious this way, when he likes job, what will he do to the nonbeliever? better have faith or else.
Also his kids are replaced too. Story is very fucked.
Yup. That too.
The morals of it are fully borked. Just don’t “at” it on the faith angle.