Honestly? Mac laptops are really good right now. The move to ARM based processes has gone… stupidly well. Had you asked me in 2019 if I thought ARM was ready for the main line I would of laughed at you, as would most IT enthusiasts.
But Apple did it, and the battery life savings they’ve managed are killer. Meanwhile Windows laptops can barely get sleep right.
HOLY YES. I have a Mac for personal use but my work issued laptop is a PC. I’m used to just closing the screen on my Mac and it’s asleep. Battery will hold indefinitely. My work one NEVER goes to sleep correctly. If I don’t completely shut it down it will 100% be dead the next day. Obviously there’s a wide range of PC laptops and not all of them are like that, but it’s the little things like this that drive me insane about PC.
My engagement was the links. It seems the problem is a problem regardless of Mac or Windows. The fact the problem is universal in my opinion makes the argument of your post pointless. Downvote away, people.
Edit: and I posted “the same two links” only twice. I’d hardly call that “everywhere” but we all use language differently. And let’s be real here — I got downvoted because I didn’t immediately jump on the Apple cult bandwagon lol. There are a number of posts I made in this conversation that weren’t rude or even incorrect and they still got down voted. Says enough, IMO. I’ll think twice before joining an apple thread next time that’s for sure. Learned my lesson!
I’m a Windows guy, but I just replaced my Surface Laptop with an M2 Air and love it. PC hardware is really stagnating right now. I still have my usual annoyances with macOS, but right now, I feel like they are worth living with for the performance and battery life.
I went from about 3 hours of battery time on a high end windows laptop doing my design workload to about 10 hours with the m2 pro. I still don’t know if I’ll stick with it long term, and I still much prefer to work at my windows desktop, but having a fast, battery sipping browsing/streaming laptop that can turn into my main workhorse when I’m out and about has been great. Plus the Unix environment means I’m not spinning up arch vms when I’m programming anymore.
Windows on ARM has existed for years btw, complete with x86/x64 emulation. The emulation is nowhere bear Rosetta levels unfortunately, which is the main thing holding it back.
Battery life and sleep/standby/resume times are amazing on it.
Microsoft need to get their own chips made like apple though, as using a slightly modified mobile phone SOC isn’t fixing the performance level to match apple.
I just bought a M2 MBP last week and have constantly been comparing it to my aging Intel MBP for work. The speed at login is so much better. And being able to actually run iOS apps natively is pretty neat.
I bought a 13" SurfaceBook 2 with the official Microsoft dock when it came out. I figured buying hardware from the company that makes the software would’ve given me the best experience.
After beginning to use the machine, I discovered that Microsoft’s own dock can’t even keep the machine powered under heavy load. The battery was discharging WHILE PLUGGED INTO THE WALL. I had to take breaks so that my computer wouldn’t shut down and could recharge.
I had been on Macs for years but decided to give MS a chance because Windows Subsystem for Linux looked pretty awesome. Needless to say, I’m back on a Mac.
I have a 2019 MBP for work, and honestly, it doesn’t sleep right, either. I’m kinda at the point where I think Intel has a significant problem.
Windows has become a lumbering trash heap, Intel doesn’t seem to be much better on the hardware side of things. Together, Wintel has kind of become something of a shit storm.
Definitely a lumbering trash heap. I just got a laptop with Win 11 Pro on it and Jesus Christ on toast it’s a hot mess of just absolute crap. Definitely makes me appreciate macOS.
Windows has been sleeping and rebooting in a matter of seconds for over a decade now 🤷♂️ there sure is a lot of circle jerking going on because of my comment. I don’t even have anything against iOS I was simply trying to ask about their biggest weakness.
And … yeah TBH things haven’t changed. MacOS still doesn’t support Vulkan or DirectX which immediately puts it in a niche space, and Proton also doesn’t work for MacOS, so MacOS is arguably well behind Linux in gaming (though there are a few good native ports of a few serious games – e.g., No Man’s Sky).
The issue is that you roll a D20 anytime you put it to sleep and if it rolls a prime number, the device actually randomly decides to overheat and drain your battery during “sleep” without any discernible cause.
What an annoying comment. Plenty of people use Macs for professional or personal reasons who don’t find gaming to be a deciding factor in their purchase decisions.
Like any creative ever. Gamers will disagree but I find Macs desktop UI much nicer than Windows. I worked in Hollywood editorial for a while and it’s ALL Macs there until you get into really high end VFX stations.
The Wacom drivers are also MUCH better on Mac. It’s hard to explain, but the stylus just doesn’t feel as smooth on Windows. The response curve/time is just better, even with the same settings.
A bunch of small UX things like native column view in finder turn into annoyances on other systems.
Having a UNIX terminal is nice if you’re a developer but aren’t fond of any of the Linux desktop environments. WSL for windows it’s getting better, but getting IDEs to play nicely with it was still touch and go last time I gave it a whirl.
I game on PC and deploy to Linux servers, but Mac is my daily driver for coding and video editing. It just gets out of my way and let’s me be productive. I have to do way too much fiddling on Windows and PC for a desktop experience I still like less.
Also – disregarding the OS, which I do think Apple should be forced to sell as a standalone – the build quality is leaps and bounds above any other laptop I’ve had. I’ve been using a laptop with the M1 Apple Silicone, and it’s legitimately the happiest I’ve ever been with a work computer.
What an annoying response. I asked about gaming specifically because I already know it’s the only thing holding back iOS. I’m fully aware iOS is capable of creative software and general use. You don’t need to start a circle jerk.
You’re the one that started off pegging all MacOS users as college kids writing papers in Starbucks. If you’re gonna be snarky then stick to your snark. No need to back peddle now.
I didn’t tag anyone as anything. Read it again. I asked if college kids buying laptops was what was driving the higher sales. But I get things can seem like it’s personal when you attach so much of your identity to a product.
I asked a reasonable question about Apple’s weakest aspect of their computer market, and the fanboys all piled on for a circle jerk. But I’m the one stuck in Reddit? Get over yourself and go stand in line for an iPhone.
I mean it’s not worse than they were, but if you are buying a laptop just to play games it’s not really the platform for you.
I buy Macs to do work on, I think a lot of people continue to use them to do work on past college. Plenty of people also have consoles, so having a computer that can do both well isn’t even a priority for all gamers none the less the ton of people who don’t play AAA games.
I’m not interested in gaming laptops at all. I only mentioned laptops because those count as PCs as well so I was wondering if that’s what was driving the data.
Interesting!! Thank so much for not responding like a fanboy. This is really interesting, and could be what theyve been looking for when it comes to games? 🤞
Would you blame them for wanting a good machine? I know Chromebooks are fine for papers and browsing but like budget windows computers, they’re built like shit.
Up until recently, and still applies to many, chromebooks had a rather short shelf life before “expiring”. You could buy a new Chrombook with like 2 or less years of support before it became e-waste. Like wouldn’t even support video streaming and no security updates.
Even on previous macOS versions they still receive security updates for a while as does Windows. Plus the lifespan is rather large with a 5-6yo intel Macbook receiving the upcoming OS release later this year.
Its not just a $199 vs $1999 laptop issue, its an ecosystem issue as well.
Are there more expensive Chromebooks with better build quality?
Genuine questions. My impression was that they pretty much only serve the ultra low end market, but I’ve never really looked into it because I need to do heavier tasks on my computers.
To take a more luxury approach, Framework has a chromebook edition of their laptop, which has the same hardware except a different motherboard firmware as chromebooks require a titan chip onboard.
You’re right, they make premium ones too. I just started seeing these. Do you know if they offer more features other than build quality/screen quality/etc? I would imagine the Chromebooks would have battery life advantages at least over a windows PC equivalent.
Probably only due to a less bloated OS, as high and chromebooks run standard pc laptop parts. Would be similar to min maxing battery by optimizing a linux distro.
You’re totally right. I was simply trying to make the point for using one over a chrome book considering the low impact work flow. I think there are some Chromebooks that cost as much as the MacBook Air? Who are those for?
I’m done with this entire conversation. Why did you get all the up votes, when I was totally right? Cuz this is a full on apple circle jerk, that’s why. ✌️ I haven’t gotten down voted about anything on this entire site until I posted something other than “wow, APPLE is the best!!!” lmfao. Pretty sad, y’all.
I’m sorry man, I really don’t like the way that happened. I was down for having a nice conversation about comparing the pros and cons of Mac OS, Crome OS, Windows, and other Linux Derivatives/Distros.
Is Mac better with Steam and games now? Or is this just all the college students buying macs to type papers on in Starbucks?
Edit: pardon me, I didn’t realize I stepped into an Apple orgy! I’ll see my way out, y’all have fun!
Honestly? Mac laptops are really good right now. The move to ARM based processes has gone… stupidly well. Had you asked me in 2019 if I thought ARM was ready for the main line I would of laughed at you, as would most IT enthusiasts.
But Apple did it, and the battery life savings they’ve managed are killer. Meanwhile Windows laptops can barely get sleep right.
HOLY YES. I have a Mac for personal use but my work issued laptop is a PC. I’m used to just closing the screen on my Mac and it’s asleep. Battery will hold indefinitely. My work one NEVER goes to sleep correctly. If I don’t completely shut it down it will 100% be dead the next day. Obviously there’s a wide range of PC laptops and not all of them are like that, but it’s the little things like this that drive me insane about PC.
You literally just have to change the setting so it sleeps when you shut the lid. It’s in power options.
Theoretically, yes. In practice, most models have stupidly buggy ACPI implementations in their BIOS.
The struggle is, I’m very sorry to say, real.
https://macpaw.com/how-to/mac-battery-drains-overnight
https://osxdaily.com/2021/10/20/why-macbook-draining-battery-sleeping/
🤷♂️ Seems to be an issue for a lot of people in general 🤷♂️
Edit: gotta love getting down voted for presenting opposing information to people in the Apple cult.
You are getting downvoted for not engaging with the actual argument of my post but simply spamming the same two links everywhere.
Not by me though. My instance doesn’t do downvotes.
My engagement was the links. It seems the problem is a problem regardless of Mac or Windows. The fact the problem is universal in my opinion makes the argument of your post pointless. Downvote away, people.
Edit: and I posted “the same two links” only twice. I’d hardly call that “everywhere” but we all use language differently. And let’s be real here — I got downvoted because I didn’t immediately jump on the Apple cult bandwagon lol. There are a number of posts I made in this conversation that weren’t rude or even incorrect and they still got down voted. Says enough, IMO. I’ll think twice before joining an apple thread next time that’s for sure. Learned my lesson!
You are an extremely poor communicator. And when people react negatively to that your get all huffy and start ranting about “the Apple cult”.
Bye Felicia. You will not be missed.
I’m a Windows guy, but I just replaced my Surface Laptop with an M2 Air and love it. PC hardware is really stagnating right now. I still have my usual annoyances with macOS, but right now, I feel like they are worth living with for the performance and battery life.
I went from about 3 hours of battery time on a high end windows laptop doing my design workload to about 10 hours with the m2 pro. I still don’t know if I’ll stick with it long term, and I still much prefer to work at my windows desktop, but having a fast, battery sipping browsing/streaming laptop that can turn into my main workhorse when I’m out and about has been great. Plus the Unix environment means I’m not spinning up arch vms when I’m programming anymore.
I really hope windows can launch support for ARM and we can start seeing M1/2 competitors in the PC space.
I love my MacBook and would get an ARM chip in a heartbeatwhen it’s time to upgrade my PC.
Windows on ARM has existed for years btw, complete with x86/x64 emulation. The emulation is nowhere bear Rosetta levels unfortunately, which is the main thing holding it back.
Battery life and sleep/standby/resume times are amazing on it.
Microsoft need to get their own chips made like apple though, as using a slightly modified mobile phone SOC isn’t fixing the performance level to match apple.
I just bought a M2 MBP last week and have constantly been comparing it to my aging Intel MBP for work. The speed at login is so much better. And being able to actually run iOS apps natively is pretty neat.
I bought a 13" SurfaceBook 2 with the official Microsoft dock when it came out. I figured buying hardware from the company that makes the software would’ve given me the best experience.
After beginning to use the machine, I discovered that Microsoft’s own dock can’t even keep the machine powered under heavy load. The battery was discharging WHILE PLUGGED INTO THE WALL. I had to take breaks so that my computer wouldn’t shut down and could recharge.
I had been on Macs for years but decided to give MS a chance because Windows Subsystem for Linux looked pretty awesome. Needless to say, I’m back on a Mac.
I have a 2019 MBP for work, and honestly, it doesn’t sleep right, either. I’m kinda at the point where I think Intel has a significant problem.
Windows has become a lumbering trash heap, Intel doesn’t seem to be much better on the hardware side of things. Together, Wintel has kind of become something of a shit storm.
Definitely a lumbering trash heap. I just got a laptop with Win 11 Pro on it and Jesus Christ on toast it’s a hot mess of just absolute crap. Definitely makes me appreciate macOS.
Oh, I don’t appreciate MacOS. I kind of dispise it.
But Microsoft still has made Windows a grotesque beast.
That’s fair. Different strokes and all but at least we can all agree that Windows is hot garbage.
Windows has been sleeping and rebooting in a matter of seconds for over a decade now 🤷♂️ there sure is a lot of circle jerking going on because of my comment. I don’t even have anything against iOS I was simply trying to ask about their biggest weakness.
s/iOS/MacOS/ :)
And … yeah TBH things haven’t changed. MacOS still doesn’t support Vulkan or DirectX which immediately puts it in a niche space, and Proton also doesn’t work for MacOS, so MacOS is arguably well behind Linux in gaming (though there are a few good native ports of a few serious games – e.g., No Man’s Sky).
The issue with Windows isn’t that it can’t sleep.
The issue is that you roll a D20 anytime you put it to sleep and if it rolls a prime number, the device actually randomly decides to overheat and drain your battery during “sleep” without any discernible cause.
https://macpaw.com/how-to/mac-battery-drains-overnight
https://osxdaily.com/2021/10/20/why-macbook-draining-battery-sleeping/
Lol
The amount of possible hardware/software combinations in a windows laptop means these issues will in practice never get addressed.
I’m a windows guy, but I recognize that the deck is stacked heavily in favor of apple here, and they make good use of it.
What an annoying comment. Plenty of people use Macs for professional or personal reasons who don’t find gaming to be a deciding factor in their purchase decisions.
Like any creative ever. Gamers will disagree but I find Macs desktop UI much nicer than Windows. I worked in Hollywood editorial for a while and it’s ALL Macs there until you get into really high end VFX stations.
The Wacom drivers are also MUCH better on Mac. It’s hard to explain, but the stylus just doesn’t feel as smooth on Windows. The response curve/time is just better, even with the same settings.
A bunch of small UX things like native column view in finder turn into annoyances on other systems.
Having a UNIX terminal is nice if you’re a developer but aren’t fond of any of the Linux desktop environments. WSL for windows it’s getting better, but getting IDEs to play nicely with it was still touch and go last time I gave it a whirl.
I game on PC and deploy to Linux servers, but Mac is my daily driver for coding and video editing. It just gets out of my way and let’s me be productive. I have to do way too much fiddling on Windows and PC for a desktop experience I still like less.
Also – disregarding the OS, which I do think Apple should be forced to sell as a standalone – the build quality is leaps and bounds above any other laptop I’ve had. I’ve been using a laptop with the M1 Apple Silicone, and it’s legitimately the happiest I’ve ever been with a work computer.
What an annoying apple fan. Plenty of people use computers for gaming and not professional reasons
And I love that for you.
What an annoying response. I asked about gaming specifically because I already know it’s the only thing holding back iOS. I’m fully aware iOS is capable of creative software and general use. You don’t need to start a circle jerk.
You’re the one that started off pegging all MacOS users as college kids writing papers in Starbucks. If you’re gonna be snarky then stick to your snark. No need to back peddle now.
I didn’t tag anyone as anything. Read it again. I asked if college kids buying laptops was what was driving the higher sales. But I get things can seem like it’s personal when you attach so much of your identity to a product.
Sure, Jan.
Removed by mod
Monthly reminder that computers can be used for something different than gaming.
Wanting to use it for gaming is totally valid though, in which case you should probably get a Windows machine
Dude still thinks he’s on Reddit smh
I asked a reasonable question about Apple’s weakest aspect of their computer market, and the fanboys all piled on for a circle jerk. But I’m the one stuck in Reddit? Get over yourself and go stand in line for an iPhone.
Friendly reminder that no one said they couldn’t 🤷♂️
I mean it’s not worse than they were, but if you are buying a laptop just to play games it’s not really the platform for you.
I buy Macs to do work on, I think a lot of people continue to use them to do work on past college. Plenty of people also have consoles, so having a computer that can do both well isn’t even a priority for all gamers none the less the ton of people who don’t play AAA games.
I’m not interested in gaming laptops at all. I only mentioned laptops because those count as PCs as well so I was wondering if that’s what was driving the data.
It could be soon. Apple just dropped their Game Porting Toolkit last month.
Interesting!! Thank so much for not responding like a fanboy. This is really interesting, and could be what theyve been looking for when it comes to games? 🤞
Hello, this non-gaming, non-student who works in the design field uses a Mac every day, as do many of my colleagues.
Sorry. I forgot to include people running Adobe software subscriptions in my summary.
Would you blame them for wanting a good machine? I know Chromebooks are fine for papers and browsing but like budget windows computers, they’re built like shit.
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Up until recently, and still applies to many, chromebooks had a rather short shelf life before “expiring”. You could buy a new Chrombook with like 2 or less years of support before it became e-waste. Like wouldn’t even support video streaming and no security updates.
Even on previous macOS versions they still receive security updates for a while as does Windows. Plus the lifespan is rather large with a 5-6yo intel Macbook receiving the upcoming OS release later this year.
Its not just a $199 vs $1999 laptop issue, its an ecosystem issue as well.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/393324/77-chromebooks-you-shouldnt-buy-why-googles-expiration-dates-matter.html
Are there more expensive Chromebooks with better build quality?
Genuine questions. My impression was that they pretty much only serve the ultra low end market, but I’ve never really looked into it because I need to do heavier tasks on my computers.
There are Chromebooks that do approach 1000$.
To take a more luxury approach, Framework has a chromebook edition of their laptop, which has the same hardware except a different motherboard firmware as chromebooks require a titan chip onboard.
You’re right, they make premium ones too. I just started seeing these. Do you know if they offer more features other than build quality/screen quality/etc? I would imagine the Chromebooks would have battery life advantages at least over a windows PC equivalent.
Probably only due to a less bloated OS, as high and chromebooks run standard pc laptop parts. Would be similar to min maxing battery by optimizing a linux distro.
Comparing a Chromebook to a MacBook is simply unfair lol. Stahp.
You’re totally right. I was simply trying to make the point for using one over a chrome book considering the low impact work flow. I think there are some Chromebooks that cost as much as the MacBook Air? Who are those for?
I’m done with this entire conversation. Why did you get all the up votes, when I was totally right? Cuz this is a full on apple circle jerk, that’s why. ✌️ I haven’t gotten down voted about anything on this entire site until I posted something other than “wow, APPLE is the best!!!” lmfao. Pretty sad, y’all.
I’m sorry man, I really don’t like the way that happened. I was down for having a nice conversation about comparing the pros and cons of Mac OS, Crome OS, Windows, and other Linux Derivatives/Distros.
Thanks man, appreciate that. 🍻
Neither.
There’s a reason Apple reports “Shipments” instead of “Sales”.
In order to get the “honour” of selling apple crap, a retailer has to commit to a certain dollar value of inventory-on-hand.
If those units collect dust in that retailers back-room, Apple doesn’t give a shit. And it’s notoriously difficult to RMA unsold product to them.
Source: Previous Tech Sales Manager at Staples.
Since when is Apple selling computers through Staples?
Up here in Canada, Staples has been dealing MacBooks since at least 2015or so. (when I was there)
Edited because my old brain had to remember the dates.
In 2013, we started selling ipads. it was a few years later that they added MacBooks
They sell phones, tablets and watches at basically every electronics place.
Ok, but this is about computers, not phones, tablets and watches.
Interesting…
Beware the Mac simps. They’re a different breed, for sure
There’s a fuckton of in-between there lmao, people don’t just buy computers for gaming or typing papers.