Time of death: 4:22 PM UTC September 26th
Notes, please read:
For those of you who don't know, HWID was the holy grail for Windows activation, letting you generate licenses straight from Microsoft licensing servers, being registered as fully legitimate in microsofts servers and letting you keep the activation permanently, even after windows reinstalls being completely undetectable and with nothing on your system being modified. If you're still using outdated activation methods and you missed out on this, I'm sorry
Existing HWID licenses are left unaffected. Only new requests are blocked, no licenses were revoked.
By the way, MAS still works and is the best option for Windows/Office activation. For permanent Office activation use it's Ohook method (supports subscription products such as 365 as well) and KMS38 for Windows
ALL OTHER ACTIVATION METHODS ARE STILL WORKING, ONLY METHOD AFFECTED IS HWID.
All HWID activators are affected, not only MAS
Around that time, Microsoft servers unexpectedly started blocking the licensing requests HWID activation method sends to Microsoft. This was a slow rollout that spanned over a few hours, at the moment the exploit is completely dead. The best options for Windows activation now is KMS38 or vlmcsd.
Patching this would boost illegal key reselling websites which causes more harm to Microsoft than HWID exploit. We can only wonder why they patched this.
{"code":"BadRequest","data":[],"details":[],"innererror":{"code":"PermanentTSLRejection","data":[],"details":[{"code":"113","message":"avsErrorCode","target":null}],"message":"The Purchase Service rejected the provided TSL; the client should destroy the TSL.","source":"PurchaseFD"},"message":"The calling client sent a bad request to the service.","source":"PurchaseFD"}
TLS=Temporary Signed License=The tickets HWID activation sends. Microsoft servers are now just responding with "kill it."
Transferring existing HWID licenses to other computers using Microsoft account is broken too.
It’s absolutely bonkers for Microsoft to even consider that paying $99 or $199 for their ad ridden software is fair and reasonable. If you’re going to bombard me with ads, the shit better be free. You can’t have it both ways. Ads are riddled in the OS whether it be in the Start Menu, notifications area, File Explorer, Microsoft Edge, and even other paid products like Microsoft Office.
It’s so fucking frustrating seeing shit like Candy Crush being forcefully installed onto a system you paid for, especially when it’s supposed to be the “Pro/Enterprise” tier. Windows is a fucking joke and they deserved to have people using this exploit to get “free” activated copies of their OS.
Hopefully this is just another thing that pushes people to other OSes, whether that be Linux or macOS. Just get the hell away from Microsoft and take some of that monopoly power from under them little by little.
That is my biggest gripe with modern windows. The OS itself is pretty decent, but WHY am I paying at minimum $100 and seeing ads all over the start menu? Even with a vanilla MS sourced USB there are so many bloat apps. It didn't used to be that way.
I set up a PC for recording in a sound system and got a fresh install of Windows 11 on a custom PC and it was still super bloated with garbage games and a video editor that watermarks footage instead of the perfectly functional basic software they used to have.
I am in the process of repairing and setting up an old macbook with Linux since it stopped getting Apple updates. When I get a new laptop I will likely go with Linux there as well.
If you pay for something, you shouldn't see ads. Ads should support free (or eh even cheaper) tiers. Fix your monetization strategy.
Nope maximum revenue per user. Always leads to ads since it is free money. Even Apple is moving this way and wants tomincrease their ad business.
I understand your complaint about ads in the start menu but if you're still going into Start menu these days, you're using Windows wrong :P
Powertoys!
Yep! And pin to taskbar!
You can't have it both ways.
I get what you're saying, and I agree with you, but I think they've proven that they absolutely can have it both ways. 99% of people just don't care.
Yeah, maybe my phrasing should have been “you should not be able to have it both ways”.
Install as "English (World)" and all adverts and additional software is missed, as it doesn't know your region, therefore doesn't know what to serve.
If you need the Windows Store, you can change the region post install, and it'll remain clean and the store will then populate.
It’s absolutely bonkers for Microsoft to even consider that paying $99 or $199 for their ad ridden software is fair and reasonable.
Have you seen their Xboxes? Somehow they get by with charging even more for those with more blatant ads and they charge you to play online multiplayer.
Doesn't MS lose $ on Xbox hardware so ads and software is the only way to make up that revenue
They do reportedly sell them at a loss and compensate via software sales and these days more than ever, subscriptions. Ads are just icing on the cake for them, I imagine, compared to the software sales & subscription revenues.
I'm so happy now that I've finally fully migrated to linux.
What'd you end up on, out of curiosity? I was on Fedora for a couple years, but with the whole Red Hat thing (that I don't fully understand the implications of), I switched to openSUSE Tumbleweed. Still have love for Mint, though, after all these years.
The whole red hat thing (you mean the centos drama?) has no implications whatsoever on fedora, fyi. If you liked it feel free to go back to it.
Cool deal. Thanks. It was just a convenient time, as I got a new SSD. So I could either clone the old drive or try something new, so I just decided to give Tumbleweed an honest go. I ended up liking it. But Fedora was truly the OS that finally got me to stop hopping every so often. I'd definitely be down to revisit at some point.
you mean the centos drama?
I think they mean the recent issue with RHEL source code being closed up. It's more of a principle thing for most people.
That is not a thing. No part of rhel is closed up: subscribers can still download the source rpms, and the sources themselves are still the same as upstream. Every change they make to the sources is still pushed upstream for everybody to use.
What is broken is automated rebuilds, and if people have a principle problem because they think libre stuff should necessarily be gratis I think they have the wrong principles.
Regardless of that, the rage bait narrative that red hat is “closing down sources” is that, rage bait.
I'm using endevour os now, though I started on mint a few months ago and loved it. The wife is using mint now and just commented yesterday that it was a very seamless transition from windows. Only problems have been related to nvidia being dumb.
Glad you're enjoying it. I haven't messed with Endevour much myself, as Arch-based stuff is a little more hands on than I want to be, personally, most of the time. I think the switch to Linux is easier than a lot of people think. It really just takes some patience, knowing that it'll be an adjustment, and accepting that you'll need to find alternatives to some apps.
I'm still a Fedora guy, started on Ubuntu years ago, tried arch (loved AUR) and all the Ubuntu derivatives but once I hit fedora it just stuck.
i want to switch but acer laptops man
What's up W it?
i tried installing linux there. doesn't work. apparently needs a bootable device
I made the mistake of fucking around and finding out with the AUR on Manjaro (before all the major drama). Broke it - though, it did make it 2 years beforehand, amazingly. But yeah, totally about Fedora. Fedora made me stop distrohopping.
RedHat still pushes their changes upstream whenever possible, and is one of the largest OSS contributors. These changes were to make it harder for companies like Oracle who feed off of RHEL. The same reason you can’t view RH support docs any more, Oracle used to reply to their paid users (running RHEL clones) with copy/paste from the RH docs.
I always thought microsoft allowing HWID activation was a deliberate move to get as many people to use windows and got them enrolled into windows updates, which bolster their market share and allow them to push ads/promotion for their various services to windows start menu. I think microsoft got a lot more to lose from ending HWID activation.
Great time to switch to Linux
Ya! And then just quit my job, since none of it runs on Linux.
Probably shouldn't be running pirated windows at work…
I don't? Are you assuming because I clicked a random post I saw on the active tab that I run pirated Windows?
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Or… Linux can't run the software and hardware I require for my job? I literally said in the original comment.
I also have my own business. I don't have a boss.
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… I genuinely don't understand how you jumped to those conclusions. You're a troll.
What software do you require for your job that you're a business owner that won't run on linux? Or are you just a troll?
Roland Versa Studio.
Cut Master 4
Affinity Designer
Adobe Illustrator
Do you call everyone a troll that isn't a Linux fanboy like you?
I mean if you're already using a Windows machine for work you're not gonna have to switch.
I imagine unless you're self employed, you are probably given a machine to work on with a predefined operating system picked by your employer. If someone is in a place where they're forced to use windows and the employer is making them pay for this equipment and software out of pocket, then that's wicked scummy of the employer.
I'm just saying this cause I imagine the original comment your replying to has some implicit context of "when possible" or "on my own machine".
Also it's a bummer your software doesn't work on Linux, nothing worse than being locked into a platform.
I imagine unless you're self employed, you are probably given a machine to work on with a predefined operating system picked by your employer.
And it's all managed by the IT department. I use Linux on all my personal devices, but on my work computer, I don't deal with ads, bloatware, or most other things that people complain about Windows because IT took care of that already through group policy and whatnot.
My IT department likes to install antivirus software that makes it impossible to do your job because it will scan every compiled object file, inflating compilation times by an order of magnitude, even for distributed compilation jobs.
Or stupid “workspace management” software that will randomly uninstall work-related software and / or reboot your machine whenever it pleases.
Luckily I can use Linux at work, otherwise I’d have to either quit or tamper with my work machine to do my job.
And yes, the IT department knows. But they are always “understaffed” to fix stuff. Curiously, they are never understaffed to roll out new stuff that doesn’t work though.
I'm hoping you don't use your work laptop for personal use 👀👀
Good thing i switched to linux
How do you know if someone runs Linux? Don't worry, they'll tell you.
Good. Free and Open Source Software should be the standard.
Hopefully I don't need to point you towards the endless list of enshittification for why.
How do you know someone participates in pirating?
Don't worry, they'll tell you.I also use linux btw
btw™ is owned and operated by the Arch gang.
All rights reserved.
I recently tried ubuntu on my laptop, every time i brought it back from sleep/hibernation my touchpad wasn't working and i had to reboot. It's been a few years since i used it last, i was expecting significantly better stability than that…
Consider trying others as well. Fedora or openSUSE Tumbleweed may fix the issues Ubuntu had.
You'd think they had hardware support for a 9 year old laptop done by now…
That's fair. The differences are still possible though
There's sometimes the odd little issue here and there with things like touchpads. The issue is that device manufacturers keep their device drivers closed sourced, and have zero interest in contributing to things like Linux. So it's up to open source devs to develop their own drivers.
Sometimes there's a bug or two, especially in things like laptops. If you're using Ubuntu, you're on an older kernel. The bug may have already been fixed but not made into Ubuntu yet.
I bet if you tried out something newer like OpenSUSE Tumbleweed or an Arch based (like EndeavourOS, I recommend it) you might find the issue gone.
It's a 9 year old laptop, so things really should be ironed out on the HW side IMO. It didn't have issues last i used ubuntu, think it was 18.04 i used back then.
Regressions happen. One bugfix might introduce a new bug, or interfere with an old one.
Code is incredibly complex and pulling on one string can unravel another.
I also had similar issue, after disabling track pad in bios it stopped working.
enshittification continues. windows activation is such an annoyance more than anything. one part change and your activation is gone.
This is why I’m very happy with Valve’s efforts to port Windows functionality to Linux/GNU kernel. The clock is ticking for my main desktop to become a Linux desktop, my only holdouts are games and some of my music production plugins. I could probably abandon some if I had to honestly.
People have been saying "the year of the Linux desktop" for 20 years now. I definitely think it's closer than ever now that gaming (aside from some anticheat stuff) is mostly there thanks to Valve putting in the work, for sure. Once Win 10 hits EOL, this being the last Windows holdout I have, it'll get Linux like the rest of them.
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It's definitely the year for me! I'm able to pirate Windows and Linux games alike. Just need to buy an AMD GPU to lock in my choice.
More major software developers should be doing this and porting everything to Linux as fast as they can. Microsoft is getting greedy these days; and pretty soon we will find ourselves in a world where too many users can't and won't afford Windows anymore.
It’s like people are beginning to realize they shouldn’t have to pay for an operating system just so they can use their hardware
I only use Windows to test weird OS specific python bugs, but in a VM.
Tell you a weird thing. I activated with a £5 Windows 7 ultimate OEM key on my old system. I upgraded from Intel 9th gen to AMD ryzen 7 (AM5), new mobo, ram, CPU.
Still enabled and active. I fully expected to need to activate again.
I'm still running the same windows 7 license that I put on the PC I built almost 10 years ago, I've changed mobos at least 3 times as well as every other component
I guess Microsoft didn't like that their support staff cracks Windows with HWID activation using MAS when their infrastructure breaks down for legit licenses.
Sorry for possibly a stupid question, but what's the point of activating Windows?
I never seriously used Windows, but I have a Windows 7 VM that's not activated, and it works. Just the wallpaper is black. Also most of our school computers don't have activated Windows, yet it seems to work fine, there's just the watermark. And on some it shows the "You may be the victim of…" message. Same seems to be the case for Office 2016 installed on those. Other than the "non-genuine" message, it works.I guess it's just a personal thing. I personally cannot stand the "Please Activate Windows" watermark and MAS is such an easy tool that it just makes sense to do it. It's not like this announcement kills MAS, you can still use the other activation methods
this is even more funny since there are apps that literally target this shit and remove it. Its unregistered, and the watermarks are removed, allowing you to forget the existance you are in. (disclaimer: I didn't do W11, but I doubt they were that good at their job)
In Windows 11 they lock down the customization/personalization options, but you can get around that with some registry edits regardless. So I guess it's pretty straightforward to build a third party tool that replaces the internal customizer.
But… MAS was so nice and easy.
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K38 still works. But yeah just switch to Linux.
Possibly(?) related official notice https://devicepartner.microsoft.com/en-us/communications/comm-windows-ends-installation-path-for-free-windows-7-8-upgrade
Never spent the time to figure out what KMS actually did but seems like licenses weren't validated when upgrading from 7 -> 8 / 11
RIP HWID
Now, you can't perma-crack your new PC with a "real" HWID key, then years later reinstall Windows and keep your "real" license anymore! And you can't upgrade anymore on that new PC either! You have to patch Windows every time!
By the way you can still use a windows 7 key for windows 11, I just have an old laptop with the OEM sticker on it, works fine on every computer I ever tried. Consider just trying to find one in the trash or just take a photo of one on a computer in public that won't likely get reinstalled.
Microsoft is stupid, someone high up is getting greedy or desperate.
Patching HWID is annoying and doesn't stop piracy. In fact it will break a lot of legacy systems in general; which is probably what they intended and why they are guilty of corporate greed in this case.
I hate Micro$hit but I am REQUIRED to use Windows by too many stupid fucking different idiots, apps, and games to count. Linux is still not there yet for me usability-wise; though it probably is still improving.
No; I will never accept that CLI is an acceptable end-user implementation; GUI is required; along with ease of use and the polish that comes with it. I don't mind CLI interfaces; but I do feel they're not user-friendly enough usually. They REQUIRE YOU to LEARN a few things to get used to them; which is the opposite of an intuitive interface.
NOTE: I am very FLOSS accepting when it meets my needs; but I will not hold back criticism. Do not try to shout me down. You will always be wrong. Windows is factually more user-friendly and application compatibility diverse than Linux.
I genuinely hope that Linux finds more ways to 100% match Windows functionally without forcing the user to compromise. We need to punish Microsoft for all these years of monopoly holding and reclaim computing more effectively.
It’s funny how computers are almost the only human invention that for some reason must be able to be used without learning anything.
We don’t do that for almost anything else. We expect people to learn how to drive, how to fill taxes, how to buy things on the store, how to cook, how to play chess. It seems like the only cases when someone decides learning stuff is an inconvenience is when tech people get into another field and tries to disrupt it.
I am all about making things as simple as they can be, but not simpler. Intuitive is a super relative term that depends on your knowledge and life experience. People find Office intuitive after using it for twenty years, but for me is a nightmare where legacy features intermingle with weird cloud and AI shit, and most of the time I only need a markdown file. No interface is intuitive, they are only familiar, clear, accesible, discovereable, etc.
Interface Design goes in cycles of skeuomorphism and simplification because computer stuff is not Intuitive, you have to open the way with metaphors people can understand, and when they are part of everyday life you can make the app for the virtual credit cards not look like it’s made of leather.
There's definitely a fine line between having to learn the ins and outs of something to use it in any capacity and being able to just pick up something and have it work.
Musical instruments take years of practice. But after just a couple weeks most people can start fiddling around. Once there's a foundation, it gets built on.
Realistically, how many Linux users have memorized every command they use? How many of them actively are looking up lists or guides on how? The memes of developers just being professionals at search engines exists for a reason, no? That's not to say that there's no foundation under Linux, but it's much less encompassing.
Then there's the whole thing of inconsistency. In music or art, most of what you learn translates. Sure, if you're a baritone moving to a tenor you might have some adjustments, but it's quite literally a simple shift. Not the case for computers though, because there's no transposing from one "language" to another. If you're following a guide online and you don't have the same distro, chances are high it will not work.
I'm all for people learning and honing skills to accomplish a goal. I'm also for simplicity and ease of access. If someone wants to set up a personal home server, it does seem a little ridiculous to have to learn the entirety of the ins and outs of networking just because I want to host some local services. Especially when there are hundreds of guides all detailing how to, each with a different way of doing the same thing, and each not working on your personal system for whatever reason. It's also especially hard when a portion of the community becomes condescending when questions are asked.
All in all I think it comes down to the intent of the tool. For music and art the intent is both to create and to practice the skill for that creation. For computers, well there are people who can practice the skill of ____, but there is also how the computer was marketed to be used by everyone.You have people making the computers and the software and you have the people using them, the overlap between the two has always been small. The idea of practicing computer skills has effectively died outside of programming, which is understandable given that colloquial "computer skills" can now encompass any hobby under the sun.
But after just a couple weeks most people can start fiddling around. Once there’s a foundation, it gets built on.
Realistically, how many Linux users have memorized every command they use?
If they invested the same few weeks of time, all of the important ones and then some!
But people don't want to learn for even 5 minutes when it comes to computers. This is exactly parent commenters point.
Not the case for computers though, because there’s no transposing from one “language” to another. If you’re following a guide online and you don’t have the same distro, chances are high it will not work.
Yes there is, but people don't want to learn the fundamentals that enables them to see behind the instructions. Online tutorials for computer stuff are the music equivalent of a guitar tutorial going like "place index finger on position A. Strum with middle finger and thumb at position B for 3cm for a duration of 200ms touching strings 1 theough 3. Then…" instead of a bunch of notes. Obviously this series of excruciatingly boring instructions won't translate to even another guitar yet alone a piano. Same goes for computers. They have tonnes of things in common (just like instruments) but to see that you first have to learn the basic principles behind them.
To your last point about guitar not translating to piano - that's not true at all which is exactly my point. Regardless, I'm not disagreeing that computers need to be learned, my point is that they have been marketed specifically against that.
Ease of use is a huge part of computers existing in our world as they do today.
Taxes aren't intuitive either.
that's because there's a lot of money to be made in making it complicated.
Driving isn't exactly intuitive either. You'd think you just hold gas and move the wheel around but it's a lot more complicated than that.
Right but we more or less mandate learning to drive in the states. If something is essential to daily functioning in life it should have some sort of public education and testing sort of vibe huh?
And we should mandate computer literacy classes, preferably stuff that's agnostic to OSes like avoiding viruses.
There have been Linux distros that cover 100% of Windows functionality without the need to use CLI (and even add more functionality) for years. I think the only possible way to have problems is with Wayland and NVIDIA. Usability has never been the problem: the problem is that Windows is the industry standard, so most applications and games are developed for it, most workplaces use it, all computers come with it pre-installed…
I will never accept that CLI is an acceptable end-user implementation
This is a very terrible stance. Anytime you type something into a search engine it's basically like a command-line. Computers used to only be terminals and users were just fine with it then.
Literally every OS (including Windows) has some things that can only be done in a command window. How about each having their appropriate uses and we use the best tool for a task?
I don't think they mean that everything should have a GUI, but everything that a regular user is expected to do. I still haven't been able to figure out how to create a .7z file in Linux without using the CLI, and that's a pretty normal thing to want to do I feel
If you're on KDE then Ark can do it for you. I do it all the time.
After reading through the docs on the MAS site, KMS38 still looks pretty robust. I get that it’s not ‘permanent’ but are there any major drawbacks aside from having to re-run MAS after a fresh Windows install?
