Apple on Thursday asked the U.S. Supreme Court to strike down an order requiring changes to its App Store rules stemming from an antitrust case brought by "Fortnite" owner Epic Games.
Android has allowed downloads from other app stores for years, and not once has it posed a significant issue
Lol. That’s not true. It constantly poses an issue and is one of the major sources for fraud on the platform.
Epic isn't trying to force apps off the app store
I never said they were and it seems like you don’t get what they are trying to do. Currently, getting an app on the App Store entails clicking a “Get” button and responding to a prompt for confirmation/payment. It’s one prompt, every user can be 100% certain it’s secure, and it takes 2 seconds to confirm and validate your identity.
If Epic gets what it wants, every app could potentially have its own payment/confirmation prompt and every developer could have their own launcher and interface for even finding and downloading the apps. They have no way of verifying if the site they’re being forwarded to is secure, where their payment information is going, or whether the developer and payment site are even the same party which means their purchase data and other information is a vector to be compromised. On top of that, you have to enter separate payment and billing information for each launcher and every one has a separate email, data, and privacy policy which could allow them to do whatever they want with your data.
It is an objectively worse experience for 99% of people in every way.
I'm curious if you can point me to any specific instances of third party app stores being problematic for Android, perhaps I missed something.
In my experience, most users either don't know about the third party app stores or don't use them. Android has a setting to completely disable downloads from outside sources. If a user chooses to download from a third party app store, they are doing it of their own free will and they alone assume the same risks as browsing the internet normally. At that point it's really just internet 101 that any competent person should understand. Anyone else can simply choose to stay in their walled garden of safety.
Also, for the most part, developers won't develop for a third party store or make their own launcher unless there is a significant advantage to do so, like being forced to pay exorbitant prices to a monopolizing company in exchange for a false sense of "privacy and security". Apps aren't going to suddenly jump ship and make their own launchers. That costs a lot of money and Apple has curated a nice ecosystem. But, both developers and users should be allowed to choose what and how they install software on their personal devices. Android has proven that the wider user base will see virtually no impact and device security wont suddenly be compromised unless a specific user chooses to compromise their own device.
This is a very naive and, frankly, sheltered view. The majority of mobile malware and spyware is exclusive to Android. Also, it doesn’t matter if indie devs don’t jump ship. It’s enough to have major companies develop their own launchers. It’s objectively worse.
My views come directly from having owned both ios and android devices with their respective app stores. The majority of malware is on Android, but it's hardly exclusive. Android devices also hold the majority of the market, by a very wide margin. The idea that ios is some kind of paragon of perfect security and privacy is incredibly naive and misguided.
It is exclusive, though. What malware exists for iOS? Nearly every issue is only on jailbroken phones. If it’s not in the App Store, it’s not something you can install. That’s the whole point. And, on top of that, this is about more than just malware and sideloading. This is about opening up a trusted process to several untrusted actors. These responses are ridiculous.
Every single one of these requires that either 1) The user’s phone be running an old version of iOS (which, by default, auto-updates unless someone has turned it off), 2) the user installs something on their PC first and installed an app from the App Store that was removed and is no longer available, or 3) the user be specifically targeted and not have Lockdown mode turned on. And this is over a span of almost 10 years as the first one of them was used in 2014.
I will concede that this obviously shows iOS is not immune but I never really said that it was. This does show, though, that iOS is far more secure than Android even if we only restrict the scenario to the official app markets on Android.
Over 100 in the last year with over 300 million devices infected vs. 17 over 15 years with 500,000 devices (including jailbroken devices and targeted attacks).
I agree with an asterisk that it would be a worse experience for most users.
But my contention is that the benefit is greater even if it is less convenient, and that alternate app stores on Android have shown that the majority of people don't use them or know they even exist. So for most people, there won't be too much change. I'm sure some larger apps will try to force their own app stores and payment methods, but I don't see that succeeding because again, it hasn't on mobile. So I think there will be churn in the first few weeks or months, but then it would settle down.
At the end of the day, this is a computer owned by a user. They should be able to install what they want without having it approved by Apple and sold only through their store.
Lol. That’s not true. It constantly poses an issue and is one of the major sources for fraud on the platform.
I never said they were and it seems like you don’t get what they are trying to do. Currently, getting an app on the App Store entails clicking a “Get” button and responding to a prompt for confirmation/payment. It’s one prompt, every user can be 100% certain it’s secure, and it takes 2 seconds to confirm and validate your identity.
If Epic gets what it wants, every app could potentially have its own payment/confirmation prompt and every developer could have their own launcher and interface for even finding and downloading the apps. They have no way of verifying if the site they’re being forwarded to is secure, where their payment information is going, or whether the developer and payment site are even the same party which means their purchase data and other information is a vector to be compromised. On top of that, you have to enter separate payment and billing information for each launcher and every one has a separate email, data, and privacy policy which could allow them to do whatever they want with your data.
It is an objectively worse experience for 99% of people in every way.
I'm curious if you can point me to any specific instances of third party app stores being problematic for Android, perhaps I missed something.
In my experience, most users either don't know about the third party app stores or don't use them. Android has a setting to completely disable downloads from outside sources. If a user chooses to download from a third party app store, they are doing it of their own free will and they alone assume the same risks as browsing the internet normally. At that point it's really just internet 101 that any competent person should understand. Anyone else can simply choose to stay in their walled garden of safety.
Also, for the most part, developers won't develop for a third party store or make their own launcher unless there is a significant advantage to do so, like being forced to pay exorbitant prices to a monopolizing company in exchange for a false sense of "privacy and security". Apps aren't going to suddenly jump ship and make their own launchers. That costs a lot of money and Apple has curated a nice ecosystem. But, both developers and users should be allowed to choose what and how they install software on their personal devices. Android has proven that the wider user base will see virtually no impact and device security wont suddenly be compromised unless a specific user chooses to compromise their own device.
This is a very naive and, frankly, sheltered view. The majority of mobile malware and spyware is exclusive to Android. Also, it doesn’t matter if indie devs don’t jump ship. It’s enough to have major companies develop their own launchers. It’s objectively worse.
My views come directly from having owned both ios and android devices with their respective app stores. The majority of malware is on Android, but it's hardly exclusive. Android devices also hold the majority of the market, by a very wide margin. The idea that ios is some kind of paragon of perfect security and privacy is incredibly naive and misguided.
It is exclusive, though. What malware exists for iOS? Nearly every issue is only on jailbroken phones. If it’s not in the App Store, it’s not something you can install. That’s the whole point. And, on top of that, this is about more than just malware and sideloading. This is about opening up a trusted process to several untrusted actors. These responses are ridiculous.
https://www.wired.com/story/kaspersky-apple-ios-zero-day-intrusion/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveywinder/2023/09/23/ios-1701-critical-security-update-warning-for-all-iphone-users/?sh=794a8b094e83
https://www.tomsguide.com/news/iphone-apps-infected-malware
https://thehackernews.com/2016/03/how-to-hack-iphone.html?m=1
https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2022/01/08/apple-warning-iphone-hack-attack-vulnerability-new-iphone-update/?sh=73609cec659e
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2023/09/09/ios-1661-update-now-warning-issued-to-all-iphone-users/?sh=4cf4c51cf2f0
https://www.darkreading.com/dr-global/spyware-vendor-egyptian-orgs-ios-exploit-chain
Did you even read the details for any of these?
Every single one of these requires that either 1) The user’s phone be running an old version of iOS (which, by default, auto-updates unless someone has turned it off), 2) the user installs something on their PC first and installed an app from the App Store that was removed and is no longer available, or 3) the user be specifically targeted and not have Lockdown mode turned on. And this is over a span of almost 10 years as the first one of them was used in 2014.
I will concede that this obviously shows iOS is not immune but I never really said that it was. This does show, though, that iOS is far more secure than Android even if we only restrict the scenario to the official app markets on Android.
https://www.phonearena.com/news/android-malware-apps-master-list_id149175 vs. https://www.theiphonewiki.com/wiki/Malware_for_iOS
Over 100 in the last year with over 300 million devices infected vs. 17 over 15 years with 500,000 devices (including jailbroken devices and targeted attacks).
It’s not even a close comparison.
I agree with an asterisk that it would be a worse experience for most users.
But my contention is that the benefit is greater even if it is less convenient, and that alternate app stores on Android have shown that the majority of people don't use them or know they even exist. So for most people, there won't be too much change. I'm sure some larger apps will try to force their own app stores and payment methods, but I don't see that succeeding because again, it hasn't on mobile. So I think there will be churn in the first few weeks or months, but then it would settle down.
At the end of the day, this is a computer owned by a user. They should be able to install what they want without having it approved by Apple and sold only through their store.