cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/6669422
A new housing development outside Phoenix is looking towards European cities for inspiration and shutting out the cars. So far residents love it - The Guardian
The apartments are also mixed in with amenities, such as a grocery store, restaurant, yoga studio and bicycle shop, that are usually separated from housing by strict city zoning laws.
Wait, it's actually forbidden in (much of) the US to have grocery stores etc. close to where people live? WTF?
It is, the YouTube Channel NotJustBikes explains the issue in a few videos "housing that cannot be built in America" or something like that
This one :)
The Lively & Liveable Neighbourhoods that are illegal in Most of North America - Not Just Bikes: https://youtu.be/bnKIVX968PQ?si=7tIT7yD5iw_s5vUe
Exactly, thanks!
Most places have zoning laws and do not typically mix commercial zones into residential zones, yes. There is no law requiring grocery stores to be some distance from residential properties.
So in the suburbs, yes and no. You can absolutely have grocery stores next to residential areas. So like if you have a main (st)road that has a grocery store, there may be housing behind the store. Here's an example in my area (The Price Chopper is a grocery store). Residential zoning has bumped up against commercial zoning along the (st)road. Which means that the grocery store is next door for some of those people. Even a few blocks away is still pretty decent.
But let's say someone wanted to build a grocery store next to this school for some reason. The developer is willing to buy up some houses (and people willing to sell them) and bulldoze them down to make a grocery store. The city will NOT allow that. That's like a 99.9999% chance of never happening. Because that area is specifically zoned for strictly for residential and not commercial endeavors.
And it goes further. Let's say instead of a grocery store, the developer wanted apartments or townhouses/duplexes. That keeps with the residential character and zoning, right? It does, but this area is probably zoned for SFH only. Not for multifamily units. It'll never be built. At least not without overcoming significant local opposition.
This is actually being fought over in a neighboring suburb.
That's not to say zoning is always terrible. If I build a house and then some industrial building/warehouse or commercial chicken coop wants to be my neighbor afterwards, with all the loudness and smells that brings, that's not gonna be great for me. And if I want to move because my quality of life has decreased, who's gonna buy my house? Nobody. At least not for the price I want.
So zoning has its benefits. It's just a tool at the end of the day. But it can make things difficult when people do want change. It's not as simple as tearing things down and putting up something new and completely different.
This is kind of overblown. I live in the Phoenix valley suburban sprawl and there are shopping centers mixed with the suburban zones every 1 mile at major intersections. I can already ride my bicycle to yoga, bars, restaurants, and grocery within easy range. These discussions use Phoenix as examples of bad design but I really don't get it and ride my bike all the time anyway. There are canal paths and stores spread out everywhere in the suburbs.
It’s to make big auto and big car happy by forcing us to use their products as much as possible
I live in a walkable neighborhood in Montreal, Quebec. It's fantastic. Everything close by at a 15-20min walk depending on what I get.
Lots of second hand goods stores, bulk goods as well and fruits and veggies, butchers, fish mongers, groceries, pharmacies, and bars and restaurants. Etc. It's excellent.
Montreal has excellent areas! Miss that city a lot.
@cyborganism @Blaze I love that local people walk around and go to small shops in Montreal. I enjoyed it last year when visiting. Years ago Manhattan was mostly like Montreal now. But shops are disappearing in New York City and many people just hole up in their homes and offices and have their snacks and toys delivered. Deliveristas on bikes everywhere.
Yeah I can see that trend starting here as well.
Did not read the article as is tradition but not shit sherlock that people like to be able to walk without the noise and pollution of vehicule everywhere and not forgetting the risk of getting hit by a massive weapon because someone is doing a tiktok dance while driving
Do trees not grow in Phoenix? If I lived in such a hot place I'd want as much natural shade as possible
They do and the cities around the valley here often provide free trees to homeowners and have programs where they are trying to fill in as much as they can with shade. Some subsidized by the power companies I believe, to reduce power consumption by putting shade next to homes. I ride my bike a lot around the city here and there are a lot of sections with fantastic tree cover on paths and parks. Of course there are also barren sections, but trees can grow well and it is discussed often locally to plant them.
Not without taking water from the Colorado river.
People walking late at night, particularly if they are Black, are regularly accosted by police – in June, the city of Kaplan, Louisiana, even introduced a curfew for people walking or riding bikes, but not for car drivers.
You can take the cars out of America, but it's still America 
I'm all for walkable places but most walkable cities that I've lived in have trees everywhere. I couldn't see many in those photos. Also those buildings look like a housing project.
It’s Phoenix. Desert.
cheap easily buildiable housing is a good thing but yes I agree completely with the trees. Makes such a difference
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You can walk in my neighborhood… downhill for about 2 weeks a year. Here in Kenmore WA, the rest of the year is certain death if you leave the house on foot. You would become a human popsicle most of the year. Then after you walk for literally 45 minutes you get to jack in the box and that's the end of your travels. Are you going to walk back home? Uphill and in freezing weather? And that's the way we combat homelessness here. They literally can't ever set up camp…you either. You're pretty much trapped inside an insulated box with a running tap on the gas pipeline grid. If that infrastructure dies, you are as good as dead too. The air handler is running the entire year. Winter for heating, then the two weeks I mentioned for cooling. Plus, outside your house is basically fungus eating everything…you car, your tires, dead wood, live wood. The roof. Everything is coated in a thick slimy mold layer.
What was the question again?
What was the question again?
Why are you living in a place that doesn't support human life? And did people live there before electricity and gas?
I believe people migrated here via Buffalo, then they had a party during the two weeks of sun. They ate the buffalo and then started to rain again endlessly and realized they were stuck here forever. But they probably found salmon very tasty so they just stayed here. Until the car and airplane, everyone here were just born here in place. :) that's my made up story.
Have you considered not living in satans slimey anus?
You know I'm here against my will. The wife finds this hell pit "central". LOL. The moon is pretty central. You can see every city from up there.
I'm right there with you. Well, a bit worse, rocking a 20 for walkability. On a few occasions I have decided to take my life in to my own hands, walking the 1 mile alongside the cars which seem to have confused the 40 mph road with a drag strip.
The sweet reward for doing so? Nothing but the finest of dining options. From Subway to McDonald's to Taco Time, we've got it all!
Taco time? You lucky dog! I got Jacky n the box down a 1 mile downhill. You can go there. That's it. You can go there faster on a bike. Then just live there, there's no point in coming back.
what if you lived across the street from a mall where there used to be a parking lot?
That sounds lovely. I hope I get my own shopping cart. That reminds me…it used to be so cool to watch people collecting bottles at the park every weekend. My cousin's grandpa would get this huge bag filled by all the kids. And all the grandpas and homeless would challenge each other to go get all the cans. The hobos had proper hobo vehicles… Walmart carta, home Depot carts…Smart'n Final anyone? Target 🎯 ofcourse was probably the best. Man, if you had a cart you had it done in San Diego. You just find some cardboard and you got a motor home without the motor.
But it's too late for us. Now if you're homeless you can't even get a cart. They got the dang locking wheel thing.
The climate of Kenmore is substantially similar to that of nearby Seattle, being defined principally by its latitude, proximity to the Pacific Ocean and Puget Sound, and inclusion in the Puget Sound Convergence Zone. As such, it is usually considered Marine west coast in nature, with damp, cool winters, and mild, dry summers
Sounds nice. I’d have expected you to complain about rain if anything
It does rain. It’s not like a nice shower with sunshine at the end. It’s more like just moist all the time with periods of wetter moisture.
is it just me or are all the pics in that article extremely unflattering
All the human pictures just look pretty natural. Maybe we arent used to that anymore lol. The blank white buildings are kinda lame but energetically the best choice in hot regions i believe.
oh i didn't even notice the humans i meant the buildings. why are they so zoomed in?
I find your comments absolutely fascinating because it’s such a great example of how people can, whether they knew why or not, spot something odd visually. You don’t need to be a professional to know that these are not good photos. Portraits aside, those are fine I guess.
The reason it looks so weird to you is because they’re heavily cropped. They aren’t zoomed in via the lens, they just did heavy cropping for (seemingly) no reason. Zooming in to a subject on the lens and cropping in post produce radically different results.
The reality is they probably did not want to get releases for everybody in the photos, so they just told somebody “crop them out” and that was what we got. Not a guarantee, but if I had to take a guess, that would be my first one.
Another consequence is you see a lot of buildings, but no ground, so you have no sense of where or what size they are.
Yeah they needed some overview shots or at least a map or something.
Can't expect to mimic the curbside aesthetics of the model walkable-city when you're dealing with 100+ degree heat for a third of the year.
❤️
Neighborhoods of this ilk can be found in cities such as New York City and San Francisco but are often prohibitively expensive due to their allure
So it's just rich people in expensive major cities then? Cool.
Well, they don’t really have to go anywhere… so.
I find it interesting that despite all the ways we can dunk on yanks, yanks do seem to be genuinely interested in walkable cities. All the walkable cities are so expensive because they are high-demand areas. CHUDs may like to dunk on San Francisco or New York, but they’re expensive because they’re desirable.
For all the whining about “freedom”, CHUDs sure do love forcing Americans to live in a way that they don’t want to live.
Ha! Buddy of mine who lives around those parts: "Great if you are a rich work from homer who can pay at least 3k for rent and use the community Uber discount to go grocery shopping since there is no grocery shop in there"
who can pay at least 3k for rent
So you are saying this type of development is so sought after that they are able to set rent at higher rates than the surrounding "parts" and still get enough tenants despite the "inconvenience"?
Also yeah according to the article, the nearby amenities include a grocery store. It's not an apartment complex, it's a walkable town.
Rental prices https://culdesac.com/tempe/apply/unit-selection/
Sounds amazing until a north east winter happens. Then I want my car
