• hiddengoat@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      107
      arrow-down
      12
      ·
      1 year ago

      Reasonable people came to that conclusion 30+ years ago.

      Fuck Bibi. Fuck Hamas. Fuck the fucking fuckers, wherever they may fuck.

    • Spike@feddit.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      35
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Every reasonable person must admit that. Just like every reasonable person must codemn Hamas terrorism. But people like picking teams, and appearently that makes doing both very hard.

      • Holyhandgrenade@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        I just want the senseless violence to stop. Problem is, one side has advanced military technology and is backed by most of the world's most powerful countries. The other does not. If Israel wants peace, Israel needs to take the first step towards that goal.

        • Spike@feddit.de
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          10
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          True, but I am also tired of explanations for Hamas terrorism becoming its justification. Not by you, obviously, but look around. This is what I meant: We can acknowledge that Israel is an apartheit state and has become fascist and did horrible things to palestinians over the last decades. We do not have to wonder that there are terrorists. At the same time, that does not mean that Israelis "deserve" it or that terrorism is inevitable like a force of nature.

          Explanation =/= justification. But exactly this is getting abused by antisemites.

          I have read some horrible comments over the last couple of days. From accusing me of "hurr durr both sides" to "there is no such thing as an innocent Israeli" (thanks hasanabi twitch chatter, not banned for this) while hundreds were slaughtered at a festival.

        • time_lord@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          I think you missed the 1990s and 2000s when Israel tried that. Repeatedly. Then the said f it and implemented a blockade.

    • avater@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      32
      arrow-down
      18
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      would wait until this is independently verified before you drawing this card. Because this is coming from Hamas directly and at the moment there is also speculation that it was a rocket from them itself. But I would hold my conclusion back before more informations are available.

          • WalrusDragonOnABike@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            16
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            Was it? Or is this the babies that were burned to death news? Neither is good, but technically the later still isn't evidence of the former nor does it prove intent (beheading 40 babies is pretty hard to do accidentally, and uncontrolled fire burning two babies can very much be an accident).

            Either way, Hamas did kill civilians, including babies (pretty sure there was one that was shot in addition to the two burned), which is terrible and in no way should they be given any sort of pass just because Israel has previously committed acts of violence. But its still fair to call out fabricated news meant to push for mass killings of civilians, including children and babies.

        • V17@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          11
          arrow-down
          24
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          That was already confirmed, including photos. Only, at least some of the photos were originally only shown to selected politicians, diplomats and journalists. Our (czech) ambassador confirmed seeing them, and seeing photos of burned babies as well.

          Some people claimed that these photos were later (officially) made public, but I sure as hell am not going to go looking for them.

          edit: actual sources in a message below

          • Unaware7013@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            20
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            That was already confirmed, including photos.

            [Citation needed]

            I went looking and there isn't much being returned short of 5-6 days ago, but I've seen no proof that it happened, only people walking back that they never really saw photos and were taking Israeli spokes-heads at face value. Here's a Boston globe opinion piece from today that still claims the information is/was unverified.

            Edit: from 5 days ago: Israeli official says government cannot confirm babies were beheaded in Hamas attack

            • V17@kbin.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              8
              arrow-down
              16
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              Our ambassador said this in an interview (machine translated, I'm too lazy):

              There is even talk of beheading children.
              Unfortunately, this is confirmed information, the Israeli government and military have pictures of this, which are really horrible, really horrible.
              Have you seen them yourself?
              Yes, I have seen the pictures.

              The same was said by Jerusalem Post.

              And Here is a tweet by Margot Haddad, a french journalist, editor of La Chaîne Info TV station, who also claims to have seen and cross-checked the photos.

              For me personally this is enough to say "confirmed".

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            9
            ·
            1 year ago

            Isn't that three three babies, two of which burned and one was shot? Now don't get me wrong that's still horrible, but "forty babies were beheaded" is… yeah.

            • V17@kbin.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              8
              ·
              1 year ago

              I know nothing about the "40 babies" claim, but our ambassador, who to me is a completely trustworthy person, explicitly said that she was shown photos of beheaded babies by Israeli officials.

            • V17@kbin.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              1 year ago

              I linked sources in a comment below the one you're replying to. It is possible that all 3 are mistaken, but since 2 of them are non-israeli and as I know not particularly biased, and you're still accusing me of being a propagandist, kindly take a walk and stop posting.

    • heyspencerb@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      22
      ·
      1 year ago

      The IDF claims this was caused by a mid-fire of Hamas rockets. Both sides have provided the exact same amount of evidence, zero. Maybe wait before hoping back on the anti-Israel bandwagon.