Anyone with an ounce of knowledge in surveys or data manipulation can see it. The question is about the sentiment towards capitalism. It’s not about actually supporting it, or wanting to participate in it, etc.
Most youths do want to be able to work and save money to buy what they want.
Do people like the state capitalism has reached? No, because of the imbalance of power. Is it because of capitalism? No. Look at communist countries and the imbalance is even worse. (Not talking about socialist society because it’s capitalism with more rights and more sharing, but it’s still capitalism.)
There has only been socialist societies like the USSR. There hasn’t been a communist society yet. China is currently working toward a socialist society. What I think you’re talking about are capitalist/imperialist countries with social safety nets built off exploitation of the 3rd world.
Anyway, the citizens in China approve of their government at a much higher rate than Americans do, and more Chinese citizens believe they live in a democracy that represents them than Americans do. So no, the vague wishy washy “power imbalance” you’re referring to is not “worse” in countries run by communists.
It’s not worse? In the west, you’re generally fined, at worse jailed, after having a go at a trial. In China and North Korea, you get disappeared or executed if they feel like it, or sent to a labour camp. If that’s not more of an imbalance, not sure what it is.
But by all means, if you think it’s so much better in China because the population approves (lol), be my guest!
First, the US is not “the west”. It’s one of the countries in the west, and it’s not nearly similar to other western countries.
Second, what numbers would you believe for China? The one that doesn’t mention the millions in labour camp, or the ones that don’t list indebted servitude, or the one that denies any kind of abduction ever took place?
The U.S. is The West. It’s the hegemon. What determines if a country is a 1st world country in “the West” is if they are subservient to America or not. That’s why Japan is “the West” despite being as far east as you can get relatively. America is also coincidentally the topic of the article we’re discussing so I’m not sure why you’re trying to draw a line there either way.
And what do you mean by labor camps? The interment camps that western media has even conceded were temporary and have already closed since 2018? The ones where the estimated millions was just a number extrapolated from interviewing a handful of people? Did you even read the original report on this topic or are you just half remembering alarmist BBC articles about it
Wtf you’re talking about about the west being the US?
The west is generally accepted to mean Europe and America.
Also, good job chilling the Chinese discourse about how the Uyghur situation would not be true…
There is nothing close to that, and the other things I mentioned but you just ignore, in the west. The closest would be Guantanamo, which is a few orders of magnitude smaller.
That’s not true. Japan and Australia and even South Korea are also considered western nations despite being across the Earth. Specifically because they are subservient to the U.S. and oriented their societies to serve capital and U.S. geopolitical interests.
What happened when Australia tried to seek independence from America’s leash in the 70’s? They got slapped back down into their place. South Korea was established as a fascist dictatorship by U.S. General Douglas MacArthur invading after Korea started to buck off America’s Japanese attack dog. The fascists there held hands with America while slaughtering or jailing leftists and other dissidents all the way up to the late 80’s. Despite that, they’re “western”. Only because they’re subservient to the U.S.
Can you find me a “Western” nation that opposes U.S. interests?
And no, the re-education camps are not similar to Guantanamo, since you are not tortured and you are released. You do not learn trade and language in Guantanamo Bay lmao. Also it’s interesting to me you didn’t mention Abu Ghraib
‘In the report, the scholars estimated that India suffered 165 million excess deaths due to British colonialism between 1880 and 1920. “This figure is larger than the combined number of deaths from both World Wars, including the Nazi holocaust,” they noted.’
No, Feudal China is not relevant to a discussion on the relative violence and oppression done by capitalist and socialist states, because it is neither.
That’s not the point of that whole thing anyways, but people moving the goal posts lead to that. The whole point is that the problem is not capitalism, it’s the imbalance of power, and the people actually wielding that power.
I replied with the same kind of stupidity as the comment I was replying to. The difference is that I marked it explicitly as sarcasm because I knew it was absurd, while the comment I was replying to was supposed to be serious.
Your social democratic circlejerk country of choice only exists and can only exist at the moment based on the actions of the US. It simply isn’t escapable when discussing the present state of things. It is like disparaging the crassness of a hog when you are a flee on its back; The thing you are insulting is the very basis of the thing you’re praising continuing to exist, so you cannot coherently grandstand about it.
In the West you have your entire village leveled, your wedding drone striked, and your government overthrown and replaced by fascists who use dogs to torture dissidents.
Pure vibes-based politics. You cannot name a single law the DPRK has besides “no entering or leaving without approval” “internal internet only”, and laws every other country has.
Anyone with an ounce of knowledge in surveys or data manipulation can see it. The question is about the sentiment towards capitalism. It’s not about actually supporting it, or wanting to participate in it, etc.
Most youths do want to be able to work and save money to buy what they want.
Do people like the state capitalism has reached? No, because of the imbalance of power. Is it because of capitalism? No. Look at communist countries and the imbalance is even worse. (Not talking about socialist society because it’s capitalism with more rights and more sharing, but it’s still capitalism.)
There has only been socialist societies like the USSR. There hasn’t been a communist society yet. China is currently working toward a socialist society. What I think you’re talking about are capitalist/imperialist countries with social safety nets built off exploitation of the 3rd world.
Anyway, the citizens in China approve of their government at a much higher rate than Americans do, and more Chinese citizens believe they live in a democracy that represents them than Americans do. So no, the vague wishy washy “power imbalance” you’re referring to is not “worse” in countries run by communists.
It’s not worse? In the west, you’re generally fined, at worse jailed, after having a go at a trial. In China and North Korea, you get disappeared or executed if they feel like it, or sent to a labour camp. If that’s not more of an imbalance, not sure what it is.
But by all means, if you think it’s so much better in China because the population approves (lol), be my guest!
If the Chinese are more oppressed, why does America have 4x smaller population but more prisoners per capita AND total number?
First, the US is not “the west”. It’s one of the countries in the west, and it’s not nearly similar to other western countries.
Second, what numbers would you believe for China? The one that doesn’t mention the millions in labour camp, or the ones that don’t list indebted servitude, or the one that denies any kind of abduction ever took place?
The U.S. is The West. It’s the hegemon. What determines if a country is a 1st world country in “the West” is if they are subservient to America or not. That’s why Japan is “the West” despite being as far east as you can get relatively. America is also coincidentally the topic of the article we’re discussing so I’m not sure why you’re trying to draw a line there either way.
And what do you mean by labor camps? The interment camps that western media has even conceded were temporary and have already closed since 2018? The ones where the estimated millions was just a number extrapolated from interviewing a handful of people? Did you even read the original report on this topic or are you just half remembering alarmist BBC articles about it
Wtf you’re talking about about the west being the US?
The west is generally accepted to mean Europe and America.
Also, good job chilling the Chinese discourse about how the Uyghur situation would not be true…
There is nothing close to that, and the other things I mentioned but you just ignore, in the west. The closest would be Guantanamo, which is a few orders of magnitude smaller.
That’s not true. Japan and Australia and even South Korea are also considered western nations despite being across the Earth. Specifically because they are subservient to the U.S. and oriented their societies to serve capital and U.S. geopolitical interests.
What happened when Australia tried to seek independence from America’s leash in the 70’s? They got slapped back down into their place. South Korea was established as a fascist dictatorship by U.S. General Douglas MacArthur invading after Korea started to buck off America’s Japanese attack dog. The fascists there held hands with America while slaughtering or jailing leftists and other dissidents all the way up to the late 80’s. Despite that, they’re “western”. Only because they’re subservient to the U.S.
Can you find me a “Western” nation that opposes U.S. interests?
And no, the re-education camps are not similar to Guantanamo, since you are not tortured and you are released. You do not learn trade and language in Guantanamo Bay lmao. Also it’s interesting to me you didn’t mention Abu Ghraib
damn thank god the u.s. doesn’t execute anybody
Right, that’s EXACTLY what I claimed and you’re not just twisting words.
okay my bad. thank god the u.s. doesn’t just “disappear or execute people if it feels like it”. close enough to exact?
The scale is not even in the same ballpark. Also, the US is not an example to follow in anything but self-interest.
Source: vibes
Yeah, the West. Famous for not disappearing people. Famous for not having labor camps.
You’re huffing your own farts.
Not nearly at the same scale, and in the same time period either.
‘In the report, the scholars estimated that India suffered 165 million excess deaths due to British colonialism between 1880 and 1920. “This figure is larger than the combined number of deaths from both World Wars, including the Nazi holocaust,” they noted.’
https://mronline.org/2022/12/14/british-empire-killed-165-million-indians-in-40-years/
That’s just the British in India for a forty-year period. Do you want to talk about how many people the USA has killed since 9/11?
Oh, right. Then let’s look at the time of the Han dynasty and feudal china then, because that’s what’s relevant! /s
No, Feudal China is not relevant to a discussion on the relative violence and oppression done by capitalist and socialist states, because it is neither.
That’s not the point of that whole thing anyways, but people moving the goal posts lead to that. The whole point is that the problem is not capitalism, it’s the imbalance of power, and the people actually wielding that power.
lmao what a stupid and irrelevant comment, you literally think like a 5 year old
I replied with the same kind of stupidity as the comment I was replying to. The difference is that I marked it explicitly as sarcasm because I knew it was absurd, while the comment I was replying to was supposed to be serious.
Doubling down on the fart huffing. Propaganda and privilege got you. You’re just not a perceived threat.
You’re right, the scale is much higher in the West.
What do you think prison labor is? Have you not read the 13th Amendment?
Again with the US…
Your social democratic circlejerk country of choice only exists and can only exist at the moment based on the actions of the US. It simply isn’t escapable when discussing the present state of things. It is like disparaging the crassness of a hog when you are a flee on its back; The thing you are insulting is the very basis of the thing you’re praising continuing to exist, so you cannot coherently grandstand about it.
Sure bro, sure.
Yeah, imagine if the US imprisoned huge numbers of a particular ethnic minority and made them do forced labor for essentially free
In the West you have your entire village leveled, your wedding drone striked, and your government overthrown and replaced by fascists who use dogs to torture dissidents.
In the US.
The US isn’t the west as a whole.
I’m sure that means a lot to the people getting carpet bombed.
Pure vibes-based politics. You cannot name a single law the DPRK has besides “no entering or leaving without approval” “internal internet only”, and laws every other country has.
Capitalism is when you work and save money.
Gommulism no work, no save, no buy what you want
LOL