Jatinder Singh, from Smethwick, was summoned to serve as a juror at Birmingham Crown Court on Monday

But, he said, a security guard refused him entry at the court over his kirpan, the sword carried by all Sikhs.

The Ministry of Justice (MoJ) said Mr Singh was released from his duties as there was a surplus of required jurors.

Meanwhile, His Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS) has apologised to Mr Singh.

Khalsa Sikhs carry the five Ks with them at all times, as a symbol of their faith.

These include Kesh or uncut hair; Kara which is a a steel bracelet; the Kanga, a wooden comb; Kacca or cotton underwear and the Kirpan

Mr Singh, who has served as president at Guru Nanak Gurdwara in Smethwick and as secretary general of the Sikh Council UK, said this was the second time he has been summoned for jury service, the first passing with no issue.

On this occasion, he entered the morning session with no problems, but when he tried to return to the court after lunch was pulled aside by a security guard and told he could not go in.

“The security guard said I could take [my kirpan] off and leave it with him and collect it at the end of the day,” he said.

"I felt like a child who has gone to school and taken something they shouldn’t and had it confiscated.

“To have that happen to me, I felt embarrassed, I felt discriminated against, I didn’t expect it to happen to me.”

He called for the (MoJ) to work with Sikh and other religious organisations to create easily accessible guidelines that can be provided to staff.

Dabinderjit Singh, the principal adviser to the Sikh Federation UK said it had written to Justice Minister Alex Chalk asking him to condemn the treatment of Mr Singh.

The MoJ said members of the Sikh community wishing to enter a court building could bring in a Kirpan which was not more than six inches long (15cm) and with a blade no more than five inches (12cm) in length - which Mr Singh said his was.

A spokesperson for HMCTS added: “We have apologised to Mr Singh for any distress caused and have reminded our contracted security officers of the correct steps to take to prevent this incident from happening again.”

    • funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      25
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      I mean Sikhs have a special dispensation in law explicitly to carry the kirpan to court. It does suck for someone to have a specific law saying “you can definitely do this in this place” and have a rent-a-cop claim his personal decision is more important than the law of the country and a lifetime of religion and culture.

      Especially as most kids learn about the 5 K of Sikhism in school.

        • funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          I’ve been out of education (both as a student and educator) for nearly a decade now, but a quick Google tells me that NATRE, AREIAC, AULRE, SACRE and the REC all recommend education on Christianity, Baha’iism, Hinduism, Jainism, Judaism, Islam, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism, and Humanism but YMMV by teacher, school, LEA, your personal attendance etc.

      • Halosheep@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        1 year ago

        Where do kids learn about Sikhism in school? Definitely not here in the states.

    • Link.wav [he/him]@beehaw.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      It’s actually an important part of their religious and cultural practices, and according to the article it appears that this man did follow the restrictions placed on these ceremonial blades by the court, so he should not have been denied entry.

      • HerbalGamer@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        It’s actually an important part of their religious and cultural practices

        that should -imho- never be relevant. Religions shouldn’t have any more legal meaning than a book club. but here we are.

          • HerbalGamer@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            just wait until we invent actual lightsabers and the jedi start showing up

            • Link.wav [he/him]@beehaw.org
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              TIL that adhering to the court’s own policy is “causing a problem.” Sure, let’s just let officials make up rules on the fly instead of applying their own policies fairly. Surely that won’t cause any further problems.

              • Bonehead@kbin.social
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                First, I said “presenting the problem”, not “causing a problem”.

                Second, I didn’t say that rules should be made up on the spot. But it should have been dealt with originally instead of letting it get to this point. Rolling over for a single religion is the antithesis of the separation of church and state, regardless of how much of a minority it is.

                • Link.wav [he/him]@beehaw.org
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  Rolling over for a single religion

                  Lmao this is so unhinged and dramatic. Kirpans are generally dull-bladed and less threatening than a sharp pen or pencil. The only religion I see public officials rolling over for is Christianity.

                  Edit: Also, just change “causing” to “presenting” in my last comment, if you prefer. Either way, it serves to highlight your own folly.

    • Veraxus@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      6
      ·
      1 year ago

      So you don’t know what the kirpan is for or what it symbolizes.

      Way to advertise your ignorance like some maga chud screaming “woke”.

  • HeartyBeast@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    24
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    1 year ago

    I thought it was pretyt well understood that Sikhs carry these. I’m surprised the security guard hadn’t been properly briefed.

    • JJROKCZ@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      20
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Maybe in the UK, as an American I didn’t even know Sikhs existed until I was 20 and met one while trying to move to a city. I didn’t even know about the 5 Ks until today at 30, I thought the turban and suit/vest thing they wear were then major religious adornments. Then again the only Sikh I see regularly is the Canadian politician Jagmeet Singh

  • Pulptastic@midwest.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    13
    ·
    1 year ago

    This is an interesting problem. On the one hand, the rules were clearly defined and he followed them. On the other, I feel that religious exemptions are a slippery slope that could enable poor behavior. Though his behavior was not poor, others could use that as an opportunity to act poorly.

    Ideally I’d love a policy that meets our needs when applied uniformly, but in this case I don’t see an alternative to individual review of religious exemption requests. But who reviews the reviewers? It is a laborious bootstrap problem and would ultimately need a certifying body like we have NIST for measurement standards.

  • AutoTL;DR@lemmings.worldB
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    1 year ago

    This is the best summary I could come up with:


    A Sikh man said he felt “embarrassed and discriminated against” after being prevented from taking part in jury service due to his religious sword.

    These include Kesh or uncut hair; Kara which is a a steel bracelet; the Kanga, a wooden comb; Kacca or cotton underwear and the Kirpan

    Mr Singh, who has served as president at Guru Nanak Gurdwara in Smethwick and as secretary general of the Sikh Council UK, said this was the second time he has been summoned for jury service, the first passing with no issue.

    On this occasion, he entered the morning session with no problems, but when he tried to return to the court after lunch was pulled aside by a security guard and told he could not go in.

    He called for the (MoJ) to work with Sikh and other religious organisations to create easily accessible guidelines that can be provided to staff.

    A spokesperson for HMCTS added: “We have apologised to Mr Singh for any distress caused and have reminded our contracted security officers of the correct steps to take to prevent this incident from happening again.”


    The original article contains 430 words, the summary contains 185 words. Saved 57%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

  • andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    4
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    1 year ago

    I find them looking cool.

    a picture of kirpan, a small curved sword

    Also, kinda hard to use without a proper training. I don’t know if Sikhs go through it or mostly just carry it. Having a knife at all times sound based to me.

  • Mossy Feathers (They/Them)@pawb.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    10
    arrow-down
    19
    ·
    1 year ago

    Damn, reddit atheists out in full force huh? Out of all the religions to mock, make fun of, or throw a temper tantrum about, Sikhism should be at the bottom of the list. My understanding is that their religion literally does its best to avoid conflict with other religions and beliefs, including atheism, as it sees all people who seek the Absolute Truth to be valid.

    • Pat_Riot@lemmy.today
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      24
      ·
      1 year ago

      I’m an atheist. I like Sikhs. I’ve met a few in my life and they have seemed to be excellent people. They were kind, interested in the world around them, and unlike most religious people they never tried to push their beliefs. Their outfit is kinda rad too, what with the turban and sword and all. I’ll take them over any of the Abrahamic faiths any day.

      • Mossy Feathers (They/Them)@pawb.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        To be clear, I’m not referring to all atheists; I’m talking about the reddit-style ones that seem to take offense at any and all religions and get angry when anyone asks for any kind of exemption or allowance based on their religion (aka, anti-theists).

    • Empricorn@feddit.nl
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      11
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Didn’t you hear? They’re all supremely enlightened and know the absolute truth:

      • All religions are bad and wrong and stupid
      • No religion teaches peace or love
      • Every atheist is smarter and superior to anyone with faith
      • Every person who believes in anything is wasting their life
      • sizzler@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        9
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        If you need religion to teach you peace or love then you are truly lost.

  • BakedGoods@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    arrow-down
    27
    ·
    1 year ago

    What an idiot. He should feel ashamed for himself but instead he feels “discriminated against”.

    • Chariotwheel@kbin.socialOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      18
      ·
      1 year ago

      I don’t think so. Simply, because there is an actual exception for this:

      The MoJ said members of the Sikh community wishing to enter a court building could bring in a Kirpan which was not more than six inches long (15cm) and with a blade no more than five inches (12cm) in length - which Mr Singh said his was.

      I think the security guard made a mistake there.

        • Chariotwheel@kbin.socialOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          17
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Do you think Sikhs across the world all walk around with “symbolic” blades just because they’re a sign of their religion?

          Yes, I do.

          But even if it was for clout, it wouldn’t change anything about it being allowed.

          You can say that you don’t think religions should have excemptions, but that’s another topic. As of this incident the excemption exists and he should be able to carry a blade according to the restrictions in there.

          • people_are_cute@lemmy.sdf.org
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            20
            ·
            1 year ago

            Yes, I do.

            Then you’re stupid.

            But even if it was for clout, it wouldn’t change anything about it being allowed.

            You can say that you don’t think religions should have excemptions, but that’s another topic. As of this incident the excemption exists and he should be able to carry a blade according to the restrictions in there.

            The job of every guard is to look out for threats. If the guard feels it is in the interest of everyone’s safety that a participant removes a literal weapon from their person before entering a place of importance, it is completely reasonable on his behalf. That the participant is feeling sentimental about it is not the guard’s fault and neither should it be.

            • withabeard@feddit.uk
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              14
              ·
              1 year ago

              The job of every guard is to look out for threats.

              And this “threat” has already had an exception written into the Security staffing standards. So, despite what that individual thinks, the item is not a security threat and the staff member is in the wrong.

              Apologies have been made, and training hopefully improved.

            • HeartyBeast@kbin.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              7
              ·
              1 year ago

              The job of every guard is to look out for threats.

              The job of the security guard is also to understand UK law.

              Section 139(5) of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 allows the wearing of the kirpan for religious reasons. The Offensive Weapons Act 2019 reaffirms the right of the Sikh community to possess and supply kirpans. Section 47 of the Act provides new defences for some articles such as the kirpan and ‘katar’ (Sikh ceremonial weapon) to enable possession in private for religious reasons and to enable them to be presented.

              Unless the guy was waving it about, the security guard was simply wrong - which is why an apology was issued.

              Then you’re stupid.

              Classy./

            • Vegasimov@reddthat.com
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              10
              ·
              1 year ago

              It does sound like some ‘sovereign citizen’ bollocks

              “Aha! You say I’m not allowed a weapon in a courtroom, yet I have on my person 5 items beginning with the letter K. Hence I’m allowed a knife of up to 5 inches actually Mr security guard”

              • Chariotwheel@kbin.socialOP
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                11
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                Difference being of course, that the exception actual exists in current rules opposed to most of the wank sovereign citizens make up.

                Like, he didn’t make it up on the spot, did he.

                • HerbalGamer@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  12
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Difference being of course, that the exception actual exists in current rules

                  which in itself is simply ridiculous

              • HeartyBeast@kbin.social
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                5
                ·
                1 year ago

                Except, of course it is codified into English law, and therefore its the almost exact opposite of ‘sov cit bollocks’

        • CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          14
          ·
          1 year ago

          Yes, yes they absolutely do. As a matter of fact, their religious blades regularly benefit from exceptions on bladed weapons bans, for exemple Canadian flights allow someone to board with a Kirpan, and they’re allowed on school grounds in multiple countries

        • Zellith@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          ·
          1 year ago

          A kirpan is a mandatory Sikh article of faith. It is carried by Amritdhari (initiated) Sikhs at all times. The word “kirpan” comes from two Punjabi words: ‘Kirpa’ means an act of kindness, a favor; and ‘Aan’ means honor and self- respect. • A kirpan resembles a knife or sword.

          Took about 10 seconds to google.

            • ieatpillowtags@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              6
              ·
              1 year ago

              It’s hardly random and nobody cares where you live. You don’t speak for all Sikhs, and you’re clearly just a bigot anyway.