iSeeCars used NHTSA's list of recalls from 2014-2023 to learn which of today's cars are expected to have the most recalls over an expected 30-year lifespan.
100%, this number is skewed by the fact that tesla will basically “recall” for any minor issue because it’s a simple software update, I imagine a lot of companies try to avoid recalls as aggressively and for as long as possible because it’s a significantly bigger burden on them
I say this as someone who drives a Tesla but is still extremely judgemental of Tesla
As everyone who watched Fight Club knows, it’s a simple calculation. If the costs of the recall exceed the cost for the expected lawsuits, they don’t do it.
An OTA update has essentially zero cost, so it’s even easier.
Agreed. The concept of judging vehicle quality by number of recalls is severely flawed for this very reason. My Subaru Impreza has had a number of recalls for a variety of trivial things, but I’ve had only one actual issue with it in 65k miles and have spent relatively little on maintenance. Comparing that to the Audi A4 I had before this car which required maybe one recall in similar mileage but I was constantly fixing major items from leaks, broken drive related components, etc.
Neither had any motor related issues so far, aside from burning oil in the Audi. But by number of recalls? That Audi was great! But they also had a number of lawsuits filed in attempt to get them to actually recall the multitude of problems. The one that it actually had was the result of them losing such a suit, but so many years later it really didn’t matter.
So yeah, terrible metric to track. At this point, I’d rather see that the company has a dozen recalls on their vehicles than zero.
Edit: I should clarify. That being said, I do believe Toyota actually makes a solid car the first time. Boring, but quality is a huge focus for them. I’m still hesitant to trust recall counts though and I don’t think I’d trust Mercedes number as a valid quality metric.
I should clarify. That being said, I do believe Toyota actually makes a solid car the first time.
I mean that’s exactly why savvy people look at recalls and the vehicle manufacturer’s and model’s overall track record before buying a car. It doesn’t paint the whole picture, but it’s part of the whole thing and should be considered. A significantly higher recall number than competitors should absolutely be critically looked at by any potential buyer and even current owners.
Boring and predictable is necessary when it comes to safety and not killing motorcyclists on the road because your idiot man child CEO decided to strip out more accurate and expensive equipment that was used to verify the cheaper RGB camera based solution.
that last edit you added is probably the worst part, because it takes away from how solid Toyota and others are because it ruins the entire metric, Toyota is likely crushing it, and entirely possible Tesla is actually really really bad, but without the RIGHT metrics we can’t actually draw any good conclusions, it’s not just bad for tesla but for the whole market
It should also be pointed out that the numbers in the articles are just projections covering the next 30 years.
I don’t know their methodology but I’m curious if they just took the current age and recall number and multiplied it out to 30 years. I don’t think this would be a fair assessment because a car would likely have all the kinks worked out long before it hits 30. Furthermore, I find it odd they projected out 30 years when the average age of a car on the road is 12.5 years.
Mostly no… and often when they do it’s a dealer install, or they can’t upgrade much because it’s all components from 3rd parties with their own software & can’t be upgraded - Tesla have a lot of vertical integration which means they can upgrade the software of even the smallest parts OTA.
That’s not to say the other manufacturers couldn’t work that way but when you’ve been doing the same thing for 100 years it’s a lot harder to change.
I need a citation for that for sure, I know until very recently all software updates were non-OTA, meaning you had to drive to a dealership to get the software applied, which means dealers were hesitant to issue them, that could all be incorrect now and it’s certainly incorrect for some of them, I’m positive there are car companies that put out OTA like tesla, i just don’t know who they are
100%, this number is skewed by the fact that tesla will basically “recall” for any minor issue because it’s a simple software update, I imagine a lot of companies try to avoid recalls as aggressively and for as long as possible because it’s a significantly bigger burden on them
I say this as someone who drives a Tesla but is still extremely judgemental of Tesla
As everyone who watched Fight Club knows, it’s a simple calculation. If the costs of the recall exceed the cost for the expected lawsuits, they don’t do it.
An OTA update has essentially zero cost, so it’s even easier.
Agreed. The concept of judging vehicle quality by number of recalls is severely flawed for this very reason. My Subaru Impreza has had a number of recalls for a variety of trivial things, but I’ve had only one actual issue with it in 65k miles and have spent relatively little on maintenance. Comparing that to the Audi A4 I had before this car which required maybe one recall in similar mileage but I was constantly fixing major items from leaks, broken drive related components, etc.
Neither had any motor related issues so far, aside from burning oil in the Audi. But by number of recalls? That Audi was great! But they also had a number of lawsuits filed in attempt to get them to actually recall the multitude of problems. The one that it actually had was the result of them losing such a suit, but so many years later it really didn’t matter.
So yeah, terrible metric to track. At this point, I’d rather see that the company has a dozen recalls on their vehicles than zero.
Edit: I should clarify. That being said, I do believe Toyota actually makes a solid car the first time. Boring, but quality is a huge focus for them. I’m still hesitant to trust recall counts though and I don’t think I’d trust Mercedes number as a valid quality metric.
I mean that’s exactly why savvy people look at recalls and the vehicle manufacturer’s and model’s overall track record before buying a car. It doesn’t paint the whole picture, but it’s part of the whole thing and should be considered. A significantly higher recall number than competitors should absolutely be critically looked at by any potential buyer and even current owners.
Boring and predictable is necessary when it comes to safety and not killing motorcyclists on the road because your idiot man child CEO decided to strip out more accurate and expensive equipment that was used to verify the cheaper RGB camera based solution.
that last edit you added is probably the worst part, because it takes away from how solid Toyota and others are because it ruins the entire metric, Toyota is likely crushing it, and entirely possible Tesla is actually really really bad, but without the RIGHT metrics we can’t actually draw any good conclusions, it’s not just bad for tesla but for the whole market
It should also be pointed out that the numbers in the articles are just projections covering the next 30 years.
I don’t know their methodology but I’m curious if they just took the current age and recall number and multiplied it out to 30 years. I don’t think this would be a fair assessment because a car would likely have all the kinks worked out long before it hits 30. Furthermore, I find it odd they projected out 30 years when the average age of a car on the road is 12.5 years.
Do new fancy Mercedes and Toyotas not have software updates or something?
Mostly no… and often when they do it’s a dealer install, or they can’t upgrade much because it’s all components from 3rd parties with their own software & can’t be upgraded - Tesla have a lot of vertical integration which means they can upgrade the software of even the smallest parts OTA.
That’s not to say the other manufacturers couldn’t work that way but when you’ve been doing the same thing for 100 years it’s a lot harder to change.
I need a citation for that for sure, I know until very recently all software updates were non-OTA, meaning you had to drive to a dealership to get the software applied, which means dealers were hesitant to issue them, that could all be incorrect now and it’s certainly incorrect for some of them, I’m positive there are car companies that put out OTA like tesla, i just don’t know who they are
At least my car has updates only for the entertainment system. Other parts need service and or a full replace
For example the digital cockpit got an update with a different gauge but this apparently requires to change the display physically