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Read the article. They’re paying for bottled water. They have access to regular tap water, but some people are saying the tap water in these very old prisons isn’t fit for drinking.
Are these prisons private or managed by private companies?
I don’t think the article specifically says, but most prisons in the U.S. are privately owned. I can only imagine that’s more the case in Texas than it is the nation as a whole.
According to this, Texas has ~7% of their prison population in private facilities. The national rate is ~8%.
Hrm. Well, I’m happily surprised to be wrong on that.
You’re only technically wrong. They’re for profit in all but name.
Most prisons in the US are not privately owned.
8% of prisoners in the US are in private prisons.
Public prisons are also uniquely terrible. Both need dramatic reforms (at minimum, imo)
https://nicic.gov/weblink/private-prisons-united-states-2021
There’s an excessive perception that the US prison system is privately run. As terrible as the concept is, it is not as widespread as people think… however the US prison population is gigantic, so it still isn’t very small.
“While the United States represents about 4.2 percent of the world’s population, it houses around 20 percent of the world’s prisoners.”
Not only are most US prisons not private, but I think the article was pretty clear that this was the result of decisions ultimately made by the state.
State prisons are still shitholes, though.
That’s insane, fucking water tap water should be free and drinkable everywhere 🤦🏻♂️
You weren’t aware in some states it’s legal to charge the prisoner for their stay? No, that’s not a joke.
They aren’t really prisoners, they’re slaves really.
They’re slaves literally, the 13th amendment quite literally bans slavery except in the case of “lawful” confinement.
So how can we continue to pretend we have rights when these “rights” can be taken away from us at any time, on the whim of an evil police officer or judge or DA, and we are turned into chattel slaves when they do? We don’t seriously have rights if we actually can be legally turned into chattel slaves at any time for any reason.
Yeah less state intervention is what we need
Careful. You’re edging into the “small government” territory that sounds great but really means less food safety and building inspection and similar services, and more stuff taken private. It’s not what we want for sure.
Didn’t knew we already had a small government then.
What are they going to do if they don’t pay? Evict them?
It’s when they get out and states legit wonder why they see the same people over and over.
It’s better than you and me paying for them, as taxpayers. If they’re in prison, the least they can do is work some kind of job to repay their debt to society, especially if they’re in prison for violent crimes.
You mistake my point, these people lately aren’t the toughened criminals that it effects. It’s people actually trying to change and stay out of jail/prison who catch lifelong debt and a reduced ability to repay that debt thus incentivizing returning to crime.
It’s a stupid fucking idea and their stay there is repaying the debt to society if you want them to make the state money then fucking garnish. People who endorse the prison system either haven’t looked into it or just aren’t willing to see reality.
Putting people at risk of dehydration and death is obviously very rehabilitative /s
Corpses have a very low recidivism rate, and lots of people in Texas really do think that way.
Charges for water?
Do they disclose the cleaning fee after checkout or right in the beginning? What about the convenience fee?
Are Texas prisons run by Ticketmaster?
Americans have a punishment boner when it comes to the legal system. They don’t want to prevent crime or improve society. They want the bad people to suffer.
Ted Bundy wished he was being ‘punished’ by this system instead of fried.
Ah yes. It’s better than being dead. What a low bar…
@VanillaGorilla @gAlienLifeform
Texas prisons are run by someone even worse than Ticketmaster.
They are run by Texas.
Well, Texas loves private prisons, so many aren’t run by the state. This is another disgusting example of how libertarians get it wrong.
I’m definitely no libertarian, but I do have one quibble with this - entirely private prisons are actually very little of the prison space in the United States. However, government run prisons do hundreds of millions of dollars in business with private vendors for things like the commissary and healthcare and phones &c., and all those businesses gouge taxpayers and inmates for substandard goods and services, because they’re able to negotiate sweetheart contracts with government bureaucrats who don’t give a shit and get lobbied like crazy (vendor salesperson: “Oh, your annual salary is only what? Ha, I’ve gotten commission checks higher than that! Let me get the tab for our lunch today.”).
So it’s a bit complicated but at the end of the day underfunding government services and throwing all of our responsibilities for things like taking care of our prisoners to for-profit companies is what’s caused all of this, so the solutions to these problems aren’t going to be coming out of a libertarian playbook imo.
FYI: the „et“ in etc. is Latin for „and“ so it’s redundant to say “and etc.”.
Oh yeah, I think I knew that at one point and then forgot it, thank you for reminding me
I will admit that Texas has a lower percentage of private prisons than I thought, but I think any for-profit privatization of prisons is bad.
underfunding government services and throwing all of our responsibilities for things like taking care of our prisoners to for-profit companies is what’s caused all of this
💯
so the solutions to these problems aren’t going to be coming out of a libertarian playbook imo.
Exactly.
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Y’know, you had a bit of a point with your first comment, and I can definitely sympathize with getting frustrated when you’re trying to talk about serious issues and it feels like people aren’t listening to you (and I don’t know the history you’ve had in this community with that), but I don’t think you’re doing your ideas any favors with this
This was me recognizing that I was arguing with someone that had already decided what the answer was.
FFS, he already KNOWS I’m a libertarian, regardless of what I actually am.
Further talk would be a waste of my time. While I’m no one important, my time *is* important to me.
Source: I’ve been on the “internet” since the compu-serve cb chat days. The people don’t change, just the access method.
Very cool, but please refrain from personally attacking people in this community. Thank you (:
I edited it, so everyone thinks I believe him to be a swell guy.
FFS, he already KNOWS I’m a libertarian, regardless of what I actually am.
Not sure how you got that I was calling you a libertarian. I was agreeing with you that Texas sucks at prisons. And adding context that we suck at it by being somewhat libertarian about it by replacing what should be a public service with for-profit privatization.
I mean, with how our system works I’d bet this company (Commissary vendor Royal Pacific Tea Company) and TM share some investors at least, but this sort of thing is not unique to Texas prisons or limited to commissary fees.
Worst, Air bnb
They say that prisoners have access to tap water, but the prisoners say that tap water is crap.
This could all be solved by, ya know, having potable tap water by fixing some of our shit infrastructure.
Our treatment of prisoners is a disgrace.
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Texans would be so mad at your right now if their power worked and they could get online to read this.
…and knew how to read.
Prisoners are being charged for water?
Yes, because the tap water in their cells often isn’t fit to drink.
What, how???
The tap water in many US towns isn’t fit to drink, let alone prisons.
Probably rusty pipes most of the time.
The article says that in some prisons there’s a pronounced smell of sewage coming from the tap water.
Rust in pipes is harmless. All it’ll do is maybe give you a bit more iron.
Could be lead/other heavy metals or asbestos which are both common in older plumbing. Oil could be possible as well as other bacterias simply due to poor treatment.
how is texas allowed to exist as a state, they are seriously so inhumane and backwards that it’s baffling
The price of bottled water went up 50% in prison commissaries across Texas last month. The controversial move has two state agencies pointing the finger at each other as inmates struggle to endure an entrenched and deadly heatwave in facilities without air conditioning. The state raised the price from $4.80 per case (24 bottles) to $7.20 per case on June 27. Commissary vendor Royal Pacific Tea Company requested to raise the prices in March even though it contract was incomplete. The prices were negotiated by the state comptroller’s office and appear to be approved by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice.
“I actually begged him not to [drink the tap water],” said Amy Aguilar, whose loved one is at TDCJ’s Ferguson Unit. Her significant other — whose name she asked TPR to not use — has described the water as “rancid” smelling. And she said she was concerned about the quality. “Do you smell the sewer?” Aguilar said she asked him, “And he goes, ‘you kind of just smell it all. It’s just this big ole rich mix of rancid smell.’ ” Water quality in prisons nationwide have been characterized as very low, due to the age of the facilities and the often remote locations.
Of course, for them, prisoners are subhumans, sigh.
Royal Pacific tea company sounds like slave traders. No Surprise they are taking advantage of the situation.
Yeah, it’s been a while since I’ve read any British history but let’s just say this is far from the first time an organization with the words “Royal” and “Tea Company” in their name made a pile of money from the suffering of captive people
The US has a third world prison system…
Ok so that’s where your wrong. We have a unique and very complex and balanced first world prison system.
You see in America we use public prisons in a unique way. They are a business model. In a public prison the Administration uses service providers to provide things like Telecom for friends and family, JMS(Jail Management System) for managing the facility and its inmates, Commissary for supplying inmates with products, and many other services. In addition as other people have stated several facilities charge rent this is almost universally a county correctional facilities thing where inmates tend to be people awaiting trial, awaiting sentencing, on temporary hold, or inmate serving less than a year. There are some county mega facilities though now that are longer term and also charge rent. Now lets explore how this ends up working. A telecom service such as GTL(Global Tel Link which is the largest provider in the US) will charge friends and family up to 30 dollars (highly dependent on the facility and the agreement with the administration and the state) to setup an account with all fees and make a 15 minute call. 90+% of that goes to whats called a commission. This commission is paid back to the facility for use of the service. If that sounds like a bribe to you YOUR WRONG you see this is perfectly legal in most states and not a bribe of a public official at all!(very recent legislation has change this in some states (3) but it is still very legal in most states). There are many many ways to bribe officials especially sheriffs but this is the most overt one. Remember its not the inmate who generally pays this as they have no real means of income though some opputunities (we will get to that) their friend and family deposit it into their account and generally that account is tied in with their commissary account and that’s generally tied in to the JMS. The commissary business model works identically to the telecom model and these companies tend to offer a JMS essentially for free for obvious reasons. Many inmate especially in long term facilities just tell friends and family to not contact them in lieu of going broke. Thus disconnecting them from their friends and family completely which has a heavy impact on recidivism. Now the facility may have work opportunities as well and isn’t it ever so convenient that the amount you can get paid from those work opportunities happens to be JUST about as much as the facilities housing fee. Funny thing to if you don’t pay the housing fee while your in the facility the facility will take it out of you commissary account. So you either work as a slave or they take you ability to in the case of a female facility critically necessary health products(though most inmates resort to toilet paper). You see how wrong your were? This is a complex and very well thought out eldritch horror. The machinations of which truly boggle the mind. This isn’t even the horrid private prison. This is a publicly funded facility. I could share the endless horrors of the American prison system but its a special hell of which I wish to open no ones eyes to fully.
tl;dr.
In Western European prisions the water is drinkable, they feed you enough and they don’t privatize elements of running the place… 🙄
I am aware. In America its a pretty taboo subject and its difficult to get the public to even pay attention to this issue. It would be nice to have systems in place that discourage recidivism but for many in the industry encouraging it is better for business. The only people that need to put on a face are sheriffs during election season.
Switzerland entered the chat.
Bro come to venezuelan prisons in actual third world country and now say that again.
I feel like third world prisons just aren’t as elegant in their distribution of human suffering. Its a dated an inefficient system, its unstainable in its ability to really bring horror to scale. The Venezuelan prison population only accounts for .002 percent of the population or around 67,000 inmates. In the US the prison population accounts for .005 percent of the total population or 1.8 million and ever rising. The US accounts for a quarter of all inmates in the world though we represent only 5% of the worlds population. We do human suffering by the numbers. We’ve chosen quantity of quality. In a venezuelan prison sure you might be more likely to get chopped up by a cartel and the system is overpopulated as hell (157% over capacity). But in america we will profit off your misery and we have room for everyone! Sure we have dismemberments to here and there, we have slave farms, and even some chain gangs. But the beauty of the America approach to inmate facilities is its sustainable and scalable model that allows it to grow endlessly and distribute human suffering at scales never before conceived of. We are achieving the tin pot dictators “American Dream”.
Bro people in venezuelan prisons would kill (I mean, again) to be in USA prisons
Complains about human rights violations? Yeah try military police prison guards raping your wife during a visit while you watch, making you eat direct shit from the toilets it in your food and forcing electric volts through your balls.
Anyone from s REAL third world country would kill to be in a US prison
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This isn’t the “bad prison” Olympics: no one gets a prize for the worst.
Thanks for agreeing with me, claiming us prisons are third world country levels was a far reach from op when it is factually not true. Cheers
Not agreeing with you there, even if I may actually agree with you. I’m just saying it’s no time to compare ourselves and try to win worst place when there are so many better models to work toward.
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Some people are truly evil.
Such as the vast majority of folks in Texas government.
Well they are Republican
That’s a funny way to spell Nazis.
Sad that they’re effectively synonyms at this point
The Republican party has been running on fascism since Goldwater made his 1964 presidential campaign all about opposing the Civil Rights Acts imo, the fact that we weren’t all talking about it so directly until Trump tore the mask off was a combination of it being a really disturbing thing we just didn’t want to admit and our culture being guided by privileged pundits and media executives and poloticians and think tank members and etc. who are too wealthy and white to experience the consequences of Republican racism
Imho, they’re trying to be worse than Nazis.
So evil the devil is afraid to take lessons from them.
And quite frankly, a significant number of Texans. Those people in Texas’s government are only in the government because a massive chunk of people voted them in, and then another massive chunk said “I don’t care lol”.
Austin and Houston have fairly liberal populations.
But yeah, it sucks here. 1/6 of the texan population are immigrants, and 10% aren’t citizens and can’t vote. The right want you to victim blame. I’d encourage you to see it as people being oppressed by an overreaching corrupt government, similar to Florida. Sure there are idiots and racists but a lot of it is voter suppression and disenfranchisement
Is Texas now competing to be more or diseutopian than North Korea because it’s certainly seems like that appears to be the goal.
Nah, just with Florida.
This is what happens when you put for-profit companies in charge of anything and everything.
Jesus fucking christ, what a hellhole.
They have to pay for water?
This is about bottled water at the commissary, but
Because of the ongoing heatwave TDCJ guards pass out glasses of cold water each day, and TDCJ has pointed out the men have access to tap water. But many current and former inmates have expressed concern about the water quality of the aging prisons — many older then 50 years.
“I would never drink the water at the tap,” said Don Aldaco, a recently paroled man who spent 24 years in various TDCJ facilities. “I would always get a piece of a sheet and I would tie it on the actual spigot, like a filter. I would have to change it like every other day because of all the rust and all the crud coming out.
Other current inmates commented on the smell of tap water in specific facilities resembling sewage. A TDCJ spokeswoman called the claim false.
“I actually begged him not to [drink the tap water],” said Amy Aguilar, whose loved one is at TDCJ’s Ferguson Unit. Her significant other — whose name she asked TPR to not use — has described the water as “rancid” smelling. And she said she was concerned about the quality.
“Do you smell the sewer?” Aguilar said she asked him, “And he goes, ‘you kind of just smell it all. It’s just this big ole rich mix of rancid smell.’ ”
Water quality in prisons nationwide have been characterized as very low, due to the age of the facilities and the often remote locations.
e; this is over a decade old now, but this bit from a documentary where they check out a convention for prison vendors gives you an idea of how much money’s going on behind this whole evil system
Peak Texas move.
8th Amendment says what?
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
It’s strange how they almost never follow the no-excessive-bail requirement and nobody bats an eye.
Pshaw. That amendment only applies to rich people.~
Um, there’s only 2 amendments sweaty
The 2nd and the 5th from what I understand
What the fuck, Texas?
No, no, you can’t even tell me you’re surprised.
