Yeah it would seem really counterproductive and a solution would be best. It would be cool to find compromise there but of course fascism has to dominate the conversation currently
that’s the tragedy of Catalunya. on the civil war between Republican Catalunya and Fascist Spain, Catalunya had a minicivil war between the communists and anarchists.
they are a bit ideologically incompatible. both hate capitalism, so it makes sense that they are friends now, but one intendeds to replace capitalism with a proletariat state, and the other consideres states as intrinsically evil, regardless of capitalism.
I’ll miss all my commie friends once the revolution comes 😔
I mean, you could just fuck off into the woods and visit when you want to, real commies won’t hunt you. I think it’s legit for people to want to live collectively under a state, and I think it’s legit for people to want to be completely independent. Without the never ending appetite of capitalism, I think the two could coexist.
interesting, the revolution isn’t here and yet you preemptively exiled me from my community.
I think you have an ideological misconception.
anarchy isn’t individualism. it is the opposite of individual independence. it’s based on mutual aid, we help each other in a collective without a state that can legally kidnap, imprison, kill you whenever it deems convenient and will lash out at anything that will threaten the state.
it’s the needless power structures that are intrinsically evil, racism, capitalism, sexism, state/people.
please, go read some anarchist resources. because you are assuming anarchist are “peaceful” all my anarchist friends are armed and either have or are working on their open carry license.
are you aware of the concept of “organizing”? we aren’t a “group of friends” were a decentralized network with coalitions spanning multiple counties.
and you can see direct action in action. there are so many videos of ICE twats running from the public without taking whoever they were going to kidnap.
the Black Panthers are patrolling the streets with machine guns again.
you can just do stuff without permission from the state.
That’s just you looking to be butthurt. I’m saying that anarchists can go do their collective stuff and communists can go do their state stuff. You are viewing communism through the lenses of places that have pretended to be that way but were just using it as a disguise to exploit their workforce in a more extreme way than capitalism. There was no sharing of collective work in either the USSR or China. I personally think anarchy is for short sighted people who don’t understand history. Good luck doing your non independent loving that will somehow never set up organizing structures to maximize efficiency.
It is still interesting, that you are already applying the state to punish dissenters while claiming to be different, even in this hypothetical, you prove the toxic concept of states. As you are sugar-coating exile and literally promoting a political purge with punishments so harsh most nations do not do that (so far only the US uses exiles as a punishment for some minorities).
Also keep in mind you are talking with your allied who will help you during the revolution. are going to build a world with them with the knowledge that you plan to stab them in the back?
I think you are confusing the Anarchist aesthetic, with Anarchist theory, they are so far apart.
Instead of using state violence to prove to every anarchist why states are evil, why not use your energy to build a state which anarchists wont complain, one that does not use violence on its people, a state that feeds everyone, a state where everyone is free.
Because those tools you build in your state to fight the enemy within, will be eventually used against you.
At no point did I mention state violence. My point was that I don’t believe it would be a factor in an actual communist state. Could you highlight where you thought I was implying that?
It’s not inevitable, after all we want the same end result - a classless, stateless, moneyless society.
If it has truly gotten to the point where every last billionaire is gone, then I would argue that is pretty good evidence for the end of the hegemony of capital. I’m not sure that the material conditions of a world like that would require a dictatorship of the proletariat, and much more alignment with anarchists could be reached.
Of course, if we are talking about a more realistic scenario like a revolution in a single nation, then absolutely a central state is required to protect the revolution from reactionaries.
Chiapas did quite well, but they were too small to stand a chance, and Rojava is still going strong (as far as I’m aware, western media is intentionally hiding all news from Rojava), even though they are at war with a NATO state.
it’s just sad, that the moment we hang the last billionaire, us commies and anarchist will immediately become enemies. 😞
Yeah it would seem really counterproductive and a solution would be best. It would be cool to find compromise there but of course fascism has to dominate the conversation currently
that’s the tragedy of Catalunya. on the civil war between Republican Catalunya and Fascist Spain, Catalunya had a minicivil war between the communists and anarchists.
they are a bit ideologically incompatible. both hate capitalism, so it makes sense that they are friends now, but one intendeds to replace capitalism with a proletariat state, and the other consideres states as intrinsically evil, regardless of capitalism.
I’ll miss all my commie friends once the revolution comes 😔
I mean, you could just fuck off into the woods and visit when you want to, real commies won’t hunt you. I think it’s legit for people to want to live collectively under a state, and I think it’s legit for people to want to be completely independent. Without the never ending appetite of capitalism, I think the two could coexist.
interesting, the revolution isn’t here and yet you preemptively exiled me from my community.
I think you have an ideological misconception.
anarchy isn’t individualism. it is the opposite of individual independence. it’s based on mutual aid, we help each other in a collective without a state that can legally kidnap, imprison, kill you whenever it deems convenient and will lash out at anything that will threaten the state.
it’s the needless power structures that are intrinsically evil, racism, capitalism, sexism, state/people.
How do you defend yourself when a strong capitalist state sends its centralized military against your peaceful decentralized commune?
I agree 100% with your vision of how society could/should be organized, I just don’t see it as a practical first step in a world dominated by capital.
please, go read some anarchist resources. because you are assuming anarchist are “peaceful” all my anarchist friends are armed and either have or are working on their open carry license.
That still doesn’t answer how groups of friends prevail against a centralized army with the industrial capacity of the world behind them.
are you aware of the concept of “organizing”? we aren’t a “group of friends” were a decentralized network with coalitions spanning multiple counties.
and you can see direct action in action. there are so many videos of ICE twats running from the public without taking whoever they were going to kidnap.
the Black Panthers are patrolling the streets with machine guns again.
you can just do stuff without permission from the state.
That’s just you looking to be butthurt. I’m saying that anarchists can go do their collective stuff and communists can go do their state stuff. You are viewing communism through the lenses of places that have pretended to be that way but were just using it as a disguise to exploit their workforce in a more extreme way than capitalism. There was no sharing of collective work in either the USSR or China. I personally think anarchy is for short sighted people who don’t understand history. Good luck doing your non independent loving that will somehow never set up organizing structures to maximize efficiency.
It is still interesting, that you are already applying the state to punish dissenters while claiming to be different, even in this hypothetical, you prove the toxic concept of states. As you are sugar-coating exile and literally promoting a political purge with punishments so harsh most nations do not do that (so far only the US uses exiles as a punishment for some minorities).
Also keep in mind you are talking with your allied who will help you during the revolution. are going to build a world with them with the knowledge that you plan to stab them in the back?
I think you are confusing the Anarchist aesthetic, with Anarchist theory, they are so far apart.
Instead of using state violence to prove to every anarchist why states are evil, why not use your energy to build a state which anarchists wont complain, one that does not use violence on its people, a state that feeds everyone, a state where everyone is free.
Because those tools you build in your state to fight the enemy within, will be eventually used against you.
At no point did I mention state violence. My point was that I don’t believe it would be a factor in an actual communist state. Could you highlight where you thought I was implying that?
you did,
how do you expect to exile me? if I do not consent?
It’s not inevitable, after all we want the same end result - a classless, stateless, moneyless society.
If it has truly gotten to the point where every last billionaire is gone, then I would argue that is pretty good evidence for the end of the hegemony of capital. I’m not sure that the material conditions of a world like that would require a dictatorship of the proletariat, and much more alignment with anarchists could be reached.
Of course, if we are talking about a more realistic scenario like a revolution in a single nation, then absolutely a central state is required to protect the revolution from reactionaries.
Chiapas did quite well, but they were too small to stand a chance, and Rojava is still going strong (as far as I’m aware, western media is intentionally hiding all news from Rojava), even though they are at war with a NATO state.
The situation for rojava isn’t looking great right now.
yhea, but I’m willing to bet its for external reasons.