It is not within the authority of the Governor of the state to use force against federal agents.
These people pushing violence really seem to be happy with just throwing away everything about the country that we’re trying to save. These people are in lock step with the MAGA bots on the issue:
Rules (only when I want them),
Violence (excusable if the target is right),
Democracy (They’re trying to steal it so lets throw it in the garbage before they can).
Don’t confuse a lot of upvotes with a popular opinion, it is trivial to make vote boosting bots on Lemmy.
If you are in the US, these people pushing this violent rhetoric are not on your side and are trying to push us into the same chaos as the MAGA forces.
You can try and save the country from a civil war, maybe, but the US hasn’t been anywhere near a democracy for decades now. It’s just much more visible what it really is.
I’m not calling for violence, but the ilother side is violent and they’re not going to stop. Maga will eventually only listen to violence.
If you think that judges will make a difference then I can only tell you to get your head out of your ass, Maga politicians and organizations have been ignoring one court order after another, or get the supreme court to just say it’s fine.
I don’t know what it’ll take to fix this, but asking kindly will not suffice, that much is clear
If you think that judges will make a difference then I can only tell you to get your head out of your ass, Maga politicians and organizations have been ignoring one court order after another, or get the supreme court to just say it’s fine.
Are there still troops in California after the judge ordered them out? Is Kilmar Garcia still in CECOT after a judge ordered him returned? Has Mahmoud Khalil been deported despite a court order?
No, because the court orders are being followed. Yes, the US Justice Department lawyers do everything they can to avoid following them but they cannot tell a Judge no and the Judge is overseeing the case until their orders are followed.
You’re not arguing based on reality, you’re arguing based on social media optics.
I don’t know what it’ll take to fix this, but asking kindly will not suffice, that much is clear
“I’m not recommending violence, but nothing else will work”
Having an Impeachment trial, and blocking funding for DHS isn’t ‘asking nicely’ these are the powers that check the Executive branch in the US system of government.
If you don’t believe in that system of government then you’re no better than the alt-right fascists and are allied with enemies of the US.
While the National Guard is prohibited from performing law enforcement on behalf of the President under the Posse Comitatus Act, the governor of the state they’re operating in can deputies them.for law enforcement.
He doesn’t need to wage war on ICE. He just needs them to be chaparroned by armed Nation Guard troops anywhere they go, and have them arrest ICE goons when they violate the law. If ICE gets proper judicial warrants and executes them lawfully, then there shouldn’t be any problems.
An important distinction on warrants is that an immigration judge cannot issue a judicial warrant because even though the word “judge” is in their title, they aren’t part of the judicial branch. They’re employees of the executive branch, so any warrants they hand out are administrative in nature and cannot legally be used to enter private property without consent.
While the National Guard is prohibited from performing law enforcement on behalf of the President under the Posse Comitatus Act, the governor of the state they’re operating in can deputies them.for law enforcement.
Yes.
He doesn’t need to wage war on ICE. He just needs them to be chaparroned by armed Nation Guard troops anywhere they go, and have them arrest ICE goons when they violate the law. If ICE gets proper judicial warrants and executes them lawfully, then there shouldn’t be any problems.
That isn’t what the person that I replied to was suggesting, nor what I was replying to.
If the Governor decided to “Order them by threat of force” to leave MN then he was be operating outside of his authority and would be ignored. If he attempted to use force against federal forces in an attempt to make them leave then he would be in armed rebellion against the US and would be arrested.
The only thing protecting him, the protestors, etc, is that they have not give Trump a reason to fabricate an excuse to use the Insurrection act that would survive a Federal court issuing a TRO. The protests have been peaceful (outside of a few ICE agents rioting with tear gas and less lethal munitions) and the public statements by officials have been measured so as to not allow them the slightest excuse that would stand up in court. The Trump admin’s only move here is to try to make inflammatory statements.
They don’t have any more ICE agents (and recruitment is drying up) that is why this is happening only in one place, this is everything they can muster. So they’re putting everything into one place to both punish MN people for voting against him and to create a violent reality TV show that keeps everyone tuned in instead of talking about the Epstein files, or Trump’s billion dollar profits from corruption, or the exploding cost of food, or the shitty foreign policy disaster that he’s created.
The protests and the terrible PR skills of the administration are showing effect. Go look at any reputable polling, Trump has always been unpopular outside of his base but now he is starting to lose support among his actual base. Right now, people are sickened by the attack and the government’s response blaming him owning a gun. 2nd Amendment supporters have typically been Trump supporters but they have broken with him because of the administration’s framing of ‘he had a gun and therefore deserved to die’. Even the NRA tweeted out against this framing.
Trump is tapped out, he’s hired every white supremacist and opportunist and only has a few thousand people to muster that will do the violence that he wants and even that is backfiring on him. He has been unable to fabricate other distractions (Greenland, Canada, Venezuela, etc) and has been incompetent in handling emerging events leading to even more backlash.
People framing this like this is our last chance and only violence or armed rebellion will save us are outside agitators or the useful idiots that they control. This framing is based on the ICE circus in MN and social media propaganda, not reality.
In reality, Trump is out of troops, out of support, dying in the polls (and possibly IRL) and is running out of allies, like MTG, as more Rs smell the blood in the water and jump ship. Every major public case in the courts have gone against him, he’s lost the VAST majority of other cases (source: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/projects-series/trials-of-the-trump-administration), his tariffs have pissed off the entire world and their response is targeted at his rich supporters (i.e. Jack Daniels distillery boycott).
The only thing that he can hope for is to find an excuse to invoke the Insurrection act so that it won’t be immediately blocked by a Federal Judge. Everyone that is here pushing for violence is trying to create the only out that Trump has left.
Trump isn’t all powerful, he’s playing the media game and has an army of bots from the various dictators around the world who want to see the US fail.
You can have the national guard follow and chaperone ICE. There are no laws that say you must allow federal agents to break the law in front of you. They should be arrested when witnessing them violate the constitution.
LOL. you will lay face down in mud with the boots of an ICE on the back of your head and still think, “well, at least I upheld the dignity of Democracy!”.
GTFO with your “b-but both sides are bad!” garbage.
This is an extremely egregious and dishonest comment. You are ironically waxing poetic about the law that the current admin has torn to shreds with the help of this lawless force that everyone else actually wants to stop. Let’s take a look here:
Yes, we have to change the rules. It’s actually very rare that oppressive laws are overturned through entirely legal means. “I can kidnap, torture, and kill people if the state says it’s okay” is not the same as “Holy shit suspend that immediately I don’t care if it’s against the rules to do so”.
Yes, violence is excusable if the target is committing heinous acts of wanton violence. We shouldn’t finger-wag murderers
This goes back to point one, if your ““democracy”” allows for people to be violently oppressed like this, it is a total farce, and NEEDS to be entirely revamped.
You are, painfully obviously, someone who cares more about “stability” and “order” (dude just let the ruling class brutalize people every now and then, don’t rock the boat too hard) than any sense of actual justice and safety.
Stop defending literal politicians, who INTENTIONALLY put themselves in this situation and BLOCK anyone actually willing to help stop this madness, while you encourage the already-oppressed masses to take on more trauma with far fewer resources. Note how you don’t even end your comment with any call to action like mutual aid, just “lalala these frustrated netizens are fake people block your ears!!”, fix this
You’re coming in here arguing that being mean to fascist goons is bad, and then when multiple people disagree you go “I actually, uh, didn’t mean what I typed directly in my comment!!”
Both of the things you’ve typed here are genuinely useless. Go talk to your neighbors and help them instead of being a counterrevolutionary on Lemmy. There’s a comment a bit further up on this very thread with extremely useful information, go read it.
Order them by threat of force
Anything else is just more posturing and god, we’ve seen so much posturing already
Or just hand over your voter rolls https://bsky.app/profile/chrismurphyct.bsky.social/post/3md7idhl3mc23
It is not within the authority of the Governor of the state to use force against federal agents.
These people pushing violence really seem to be happy with just throwing away everything about the country that we’re trying to save. These people are in lock step with the MAGA bots on the issue:
Don’t confuse a lot of upvotes with a popular opinion, it is trivial to make vote boosting bots on Lemmy.
If you are in the US, these people pushing this violent rhetoric are not on your side and are trying to push us into the same chaos as the MAGA forces.
I’m sorry, but saving a democracy?
You can try and save the country from a civil war, maybe, but the US hasn’t been anywhere near a democracy for decades now. It’s just much more visible what it really is.
I’m not calling for violence, but the ilother side is violent and they’re not going to stop. Maga will eventually only listen to violence.
If you think that judges will make a difference then I can only tell you to get your head out of your ass, Maga politicians and organizations have been ignoring one court order after another, or get the supreme court to just say it’s fine.
I don’t know what it’ll take to fix this, but asking kindly will not suffice, that much is clear
This is just nonsense and not based in reality.
Here is the list of every single case involving the Trump administration: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/projects-series/trials-of-the-trump-administration/tracking-trump-administration-litigation The vast majority of cases are losses and denied on appeal.
Are there still troops in California after the judge ordered them out? Is Kilmar Garcia still in CECOT after a judge ordered him returned? Has Mahmoud Khalil been deported despite a court order?
No, because the court orders are being followed. Yes, the US Justice Department lawyers do everything they can to avoid following them but they cannot tell a Judge no and the Judge is overseeing the case until their orders are followed.
You’re not arguing based on reality, you’re arguing based on social media optics.
“I’m not recommending violence, but nothing else will work”
Having an Impeachment trial, and blocking funding for DHS isn’t ‘asking nicely’ these are the powers that check the Executive branch in the US system of government.
If you don’t believe in that system of government then you’re no better than the alt-right fascists and are allied with enemies of the US.
While the National Guard is prohibited from performing law enforcement on behalf of the President under the Posse Comitatus Act, the governor of the state they’re operating in can deputies them.for law enforcement.
He doesn’t need to wage war on ICE. He just needs them to be chaparroned by armed Nation Guard troops anywhere they go, and have them arrest ICE goons when they violate the law. If ICE gets proper judicial warrants and executes them lawfully, then there shouldn’t be any problems.
An important distinction on warrants is that an immigration judge cannot issue a judicial warrant because even though the word “judge” is in their title, they aren’t part of the judicial branch. They’re employees of the executive branch, so any warrants they hand out are administrative in nature and cannot legally be used to enter private property without consent.
Yes.
That isn’t what the person that I replied to was suggesting, nor what I was replying to.
If the Governor decided to “Order them by threat of force” to leave MN then he was be operating outside of his authority and would be ignored. If he attempted to use force against federal forces in an attempt to make them leave then he would be in armed rebellion against the US and would be arrested.
The only thing protecting him, the protestors, etc, is that they have not give Trump a reason to fabricate an excuse to use the Insurrection act that would survive a Federal court issuing a TRO. The protests have been peaceful (outside of a few ICE agents rioting with tear gas and less lethal munitions) and the public statements by officials have been measured so as to not allow them the slightest excuse that would stand up in court. The Trump admin’s only move here is to try to make inflammatory statements.
They don’t have any more ICE agents (and recruitment is drying up) that is why this is happening only in one place, this is everything they can muster. So they’re putting everything into one place to both punish MN people for voting against him and to create a violent reality TV show that keeps everyone tuned in instead of talking about the Epstein files, or Trump’s billion dollar profits from corruption, or the exploding cost of food, or the shitty foreign policy disaster that he’s created.
The protests and the terrible PR skills of the administration are showing effect. Go look at any reputable polling, Trump has always been unpopular outside of his base but now he is starting to lose support among his actual base. Right now, people are sickened by the attack and the government’s response blaming him owning a gun. 2nd Amendment supporters have typically been Trump supporters but they have broken with him because of the administration’s framing of ‘he had a gun and therefore deserved to die’. Even the NRA tweeted out against this framing.
Trump is tapped out, he’s hired every white supremacist and opportunist and only has a few thousand people to muster that will do the violence that he wants and even that is backfiring on him. He has been unable to fabricate other distractions (Greenland, Canada, Venezuela, etc) and has been incompetent in handling emerging events leading to even more backlash.
People framing this like this is our last chance and only violence or armed rebellion will save us are outside agitators or the useful idiots that they control. This framing is based on the ICE circus in MN and social media propaganda, not reality.
In reality, Trump is out of troops, out of support, dying in the polls (and possibly IRL) and is running out of allies, like MTG, as more Rs smell the blood in the water and jump ship. Every major public case in the courts have gone against him, he’s lost the VAST majority of other cases (source: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/projects-series/trials-of-the-trump-administration), his tariffs have pissed off the entire world and their response is targeted at his rich supporters (i.e. Jack Daniels distillery boycott).
The only thing that he can hope for is to find an excuse to invoke the Insurrection act so that it won’t be immediately blocked by a Federal Judge. Everyone that is here pushing for violence is trying to create the only out that Trump has left.
Trump isn’t all powerful, he’s playing the media game and has an army of bots from the various dictators around the world who want to see the US fail.
You can have the national guard follow and chaperone ICE. There are no laws that say you must allow federal agents to break the law in front of you. They should be arrested when witnessing them violate the constitution.
Force only recognises force no? Newton.
LOL. you will lay face down in mud with the boots of an ICE on the back of your head and still think, “well, at least I upheld the dignity of Democracy!”.
GTFO with your “b-but both sides are bad!” garbage.
This is an extremely egregious and dishonest comment. You are ironically waxing poetic about the law that the current admin has torn to shreds with the help of this lawless force that everyone else actually wants to stop. Let’s take a look here:
You are, painfully obviously, someone who cares more about “stability” and “order” (dude just let the ruling class brutalize people every now and then, don’t rock the boat too hard) than any sense of actual justice and safety. Stop defending literal politicians, who INTENTIONALLY put themselves in this situation and BLOCK anyone actually willing to help stop this madness, while you encourage the already-oppressed masses to take on more trauma with far fewer resources. Note how you don’t even end your comment with any call to action like mutual aid, just “lalala these frustrated netizens are fake people block your ears!!”, fix this
You’re sure beating up those strawmen positions that I never stated or even believe.
You’re coming in here arguing that being mean to fascist goons is bad, and then when multiple people disagree you go “I actually, uh, didn’t mean what I typed directly in my comment!!”
Both of the things you’ve typed here are genuinely useless. Go talk to your neighbors and help them instead of being a counterrevolutionary on Lemmy. There’s a comment a bit further up on this very thread with extremely useful information, go read it.
there’s no question of authority here. you shoot someone you get arrested.