• Ulrich_the_Old@lemmy.ca
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    3 hours ago

    Regardless of the program implemented there will be someone gatekeeping it. How about we just leave MAID to the patient and their doctor to decide. It was a great thing for my brother when he was dying from ALS it would not have been kind to let him suffer for a few more months. If you are against MAID then don’t use it.

  • AGM@lemmy.ca
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    7 hours ago

    I’ve known two people who used MAID to end their lives. Both had terminal illnesses that were heading towards protracted, painful, debilitating ends. They used MAID ro end their lives on their terms and because they didn’t want to live through that or to put their families through it.

    To me, their access to MAID absolutely provided more humane, dignified, caring treatment than they would have had in being forced to live through what they were facing.

    Their cases were pretty clear cut imo, but I understand there are much less clear cut circumstances and situations where concerns over mental health and necessity of MAID vs alternatives requires much more challenging judgment. It’s not straightforward and clear cut in all circumstances. You never want to throw the baby out with the bathwater on either side of this issue, be it needlessly enforcing suffering or needlessly ending a life.

    What that indicates to me is MAID is a good thing to have, but we just really need to invest in quality research and policy development, and that includes research and investment into ensuring the system of administration is well-designed and well-maintained in accordance with the research and humane ethics. As long as we keep doing that, we’re taking the right approach to do the best we can.

    • AlexLost@lemmy.world
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      6 hours ago

      We put our animals to sleep to save them from suffering. Gramma tho? She gotta be a vegetable for a few years before she can get some relief.

      • silverneedle@lemmy.ca
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        52 minutes ago

        I don’t think it’s fair to draw this comparison on either end as this concerns relationships that are extremely contextualized and subject to change (human to nonhuman animal and human to human.) What constitutes suffering is highly debatable, we’re not dealing with faulty RAM sticks that make the execution of operations unreliable.

        The impossibility of creating clear and objective frameworks/rationality based decision-making has been a tool time and time again for repression. It starts with putting grandma out of what we or anyone who is not grandma considers to be her misery, then we go on to NICU children in dire or uncertain circumstances or individuals who can’t communicate or contribute to society, and so on.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktion_T4

        cmd+f “Gnadentod”

  • panda_abyss@lemmy.ca
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    19 hours ago

    I don’t know if we have the right implementation.

    What I do know is being able to choose when to die should be a human right. I’ve updated my will to give power of attorney, we just went over my wife’s parent’s will to also provide guidance for MAID. I’ve seen my grandmother not eat and die slowly over a week, and I think that’s just not fair.

    Now, I also think we should:

    • Stop treating disabled people like moochers, and start treating them like humans. We need to fix our benefit systems. My sister is disabled and it’s fucking stupid that she’d be worse off with a job, or that we need to set up special trusts to handle money for her.
    • Stop private ownership of Long Term Care homes. Have you ever been to a fucking LTC home? They’re fucking expensive and under staffed. If you don’t have someone constantly advocating for you, you’re going to get treated like shit and ignored. it is fucking awful and it needs to end. And this is not on the staff. There are some wonderful people doing these jobs, and they’re oveworked and abused by their employers.
    • Fund Mental Health treatment. We do not fund this field, we have a shortage of qualified professionals, and they charge a lot. It’s unacceptable. The government picking up the slack so that we can hire the right number of people would be a huge win.
    • Cover medication in our single payer system.
    • Put serious consequences for companies that try to renege pensions that leave the elderly destitute. The Bay dissolving their pensions should have resulted in jail time.

    I don’t know if everywhere else in Canada is the same, but LTC in Ontario is a crime. It should have ended with Covid when they had to bring the army in to manage LTC homes.

    And frankly, I think the UN with their shit morals needs to back the fuck off.

  • ageedizzle@piefed.ca
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    19 hours ago

    I know that I might get downvoted for saying this, but I think the UN is right on this one. We should stop expanding this program.

    The federal government has been considering expanding MAiD so that people with mental illness as their only underlying medical condition could qualify.

    Am I the only one that thinks this is going too far? I thought it was generally considered a good thing that, if someone is suffering from suicide ideation, you talk them off the ledge. That’s why we have suicide prevention programs, suicide hotlines, etc. This seems like a reversal of this attitude. It’s saying, “oh, you’re depressed, and you want to kill yourself? Okay, let’s make that easier for you.” This is not healthcare.

    We also need to consider how this impacts marginalized communities, like for example Inuit communities in Nunavut, where suicide is considered a crisis .

    • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world
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      9 hours ago

      I watched a documentary about MAID in Canada and in a European country (where they allow MAID for depression) for a philosophy of law class. One of the people in the story was a young woman who was in the process of applying for MAID because she was suicidal. By the end of the documentary she had been approved but had chosen not to go through with it yet. She was keeping her approval in her back pocket while attending counselling as provided to her by the process.

      She said having the approval made her feel a lot better, like she was back in control of her life.

      I think it’s important to design a process like this where you can always back out, and you always retain control.

      • ageedizzle@piefed.ca
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        8 hours ago

        Thank you for your thoughtful comment. This thread has triggered a lot of emotions and devolved into nastiness in some parts so it was refreshing to read something well put together and measured like this

    • panda_abyss@lemmy.ca
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      19 hours ago

      I do disagree with you a bit. MAID isn’t like a take-a-number system, I don’t think it would be aiding impulsive suicidal thoughts. There is a doctor involved who should be on the hook for how and why the call to permit MAID is handled. That’s not perfect though.

      • ageedizzle@piefed.ca
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        18 hours ago

        aiding impulsive suicidal thoughts

        It would be aiding with suicidal thoughts, even if those thoughts are not necessarily impulsive

        • panda_abyss@lemmy.ca
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          18 hours ago

          That’s a good point, but I think it’s where I think you need someone with intimate knowledge of the situation to decide.

            • iamthetot@piefed.ca
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              8 hours ago

              Denying someone MAID is also deciding if the person should live or die. You just don’t like the “or die” part of that decision.

              • ageedizzle@piefed.ca
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                7 hours ago

                You are correct. I don’t trust people to decide when other people should die.

                • iamthetot@piefed.ca
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                  7 hours ago

                  You are missing the point. You are doing that right now. You are deciding that they shouldn’t die now, but later. You are deciding when other people should die.

    • SGforce@lemmy.ca
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      18 hours ago

      You talk them down as many times as you can but some people will still jump in front of that subway car and ruin a few people’s lives.

      • ageedizzle@piefed.ca
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        18 hours ago

        Some people will, yes, but not everyone with suicidal ideation necessarily acts on it.

        • HellsBelle@sh.itjust.works
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          17 hours ago

          True, but enough do act upon it that it’s a big issue. When hope dies is when people die. The biggest problem is at provincial levels because they’re the ones who decide what mental healthcare is paid for … and right now it’s very little. Usually only psychiatrists, but not psychologists, social workers, or any other mental health specialists. Those are all out-of-pocket and it’s expensive. Nevermind remote regions who often don’t have any.

          This is not on the feds because they don’t control healthcare. The provinces do, and when you’ve got provincial leaders who care more about giving away tax dollars to big business than caring for the people, dying by MAID becomes an easy solution to a provincial greed problem.

          • ageedizzle@piefed.ca
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            8 hours ago

            it seems to me that if were having trouble rolling out healthcare then we should focus on improving healthcare, not introducing MAiD. MAiD is not an alternative to proper mental healthcare, but I guess that’s what you’re saying?

            • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca
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              4 hours ago

              Canada has always had a pathetic budget to fund biomedical research, because government assumed the US would pay the bills and we just buy the drugs.

              Now, the US budget is zero, and we are paying hundreds of billions for drugs we should be making locally. This amplified under Trudeau and Carney, because CDN voters don’t care. Carbon tax was the priority.

    • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
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      16 hours ago

      More than likely depression isn’t the mental health condition this targets.

      However you need the recommending and preforming doctor to sign off on it and be deemed able to consent the day of.

      If you were suicidal the day they go to do it then you’d be disqualified.

      It sucks for dementia patients because they can’t sign off “when my mind goes”. They have to do it before then.