Less ambiguously worded: knitting did not exist in Roman late antiquity. Romans produced their fabric by weaving. It’s very easy to tell the difference when looking at a fabric if someone points it out to you. Knitting was an early medieval probably Middle Eastern/North African invention. It took a while to spread.
It’s very awesome that someone was able to use a model of one of these to knit a glove, but one time I got wasted and knit with pencils. I really love imagining little Roman schoolchildren in woolen mittens and beanies, but it’s just not realistic.
Man, i looked up nalbinding. It’s knitting, 7000 years old, romans made their socks and mittens that way, it’s not crochet, of course, but it’s knitting. Apparently it was only named nalbinding in the 70s, it was just knit before.
Nålbinding and knitting are not the same. They look very similar in the finished product, and can be hard to tell apart by non-experts, but are made by entirely separate processes. Because of the difficulty in identification - because honestly, many archeologists and historians before the 1970s were extremely ignorant on the history of “day to day” folks - many items were misidentified.
Key differences: Nålbinding uses smaller, shorter strands tied together (early spinning methods = shorter bits to work with). Nålbinding works with one finger holding the stitches, the earliest knitting (which tbh, didn’t really reach Europe until the late medieval period) was worked in the round on multiple double pointed needles. What the earliest knitting looked like wouldn’t have looked what granny was doing, or either of the two videos linked above. (I tried to find a video but FUCK dpens, circ gang 4lyf)
Nålbinding is a very different technique because it is early - working with small scraps of fiber because you’re just grabbing what’s available, and it’s a technique that closes itself (unlike knitting or crochet, you don’t have to “weave in” the ends). Nålbinding also involves you working “off thumb.”
It’s very fun to imagine that Romans had a nifty way of mass producing gloves. But it’s a massive stretch. Clothing was made at home, by the women of the home. Poor women would not have been able to afford a fancy doohickey. Wealthy women didn’t make their own clothes. Prestige clothing (eg togas) was primarily woven.
I’ve seen lots of cool people make art with things that weren’t intended for the purpose of making art, and that’s great! Folks can write messages in the sky with airplanes - that doesn’t mean that airplanes were invented for skywriting.
It might be helpful to try both techniques yourself.
You can buy a spool at Walmart for pretty cheap, they’re often available at thrift stores for less. You’ll want to look up an “i-cord” tutorial. Any old yarn will do honestly, the acrylic super savers will work.
Nålbinding will require that you use wool. The joining process involves felting the ends together (an extra knitter might do this, but it’s not necessary - it’s okay to tie them together because you’re weaving in ends afterwards). Felting is using water and patience to shape wool. For practice, you can use a cheap plastic tapestry needle honestly - save money here because the wool is going to run you a bit more.
I find nålbinding uncomfortable and slow, personally.
Do you also think crochet and knitting are the same? This is a totally different fiber art. I both knit and crochet and would not be able to hop right into this; totally different movements and methods and ways of weaving the yarn. Just because the products are similar does not make it the same.
I hope you’re trolling because you’re getting me good lmao
Here’s the thing. You said “nålbinding is knitting.”
Is it in the same family? Yes. No one’s arguing that.
As someone who is a scientist who studies knitting, I am telling you, specifically, in science, no one calls nålbinding knitting. If you want to be “specific” like you said, then you shouldn’t either. They’re not the same thing.
If you’re saying “knitting family” you’re referring to the hobby of weaving, which includes things from crochet to macramé to plaiting.
So your reasoning for calling nålbinding knitting is because random people “call fabric crafting knitting?” Let’s get felting and tatting in there, then, too.
Also, calling something knitting or weaving? It’s not one or the other, that’s not how taxonomy works. They’re both. Nålbinding is nålbinding and a member of the knitting family. But that’s not what you said. You said a nålbinding is knitting, which is not true unless you’re okay with calling all members of the knitting family knitting, which means you’d call macramé, plaiting, and other weaving methods knitting, too. Which you said you don’t.
Yeah, this object isn’t attested to either, so…
Less ambiguously worded: knitting did not exist in Roman late antiquity. Romans produced their fabric by weaving. It’s very easy to tell the difference when looking at a fabric if someone points it out to you. Knitting was an early medieval probably Middle Eastern/North African invention. It took a while to spread.
It’s very awesome that someone was able to use a model of one of these to knit a glove, but one time I got wasted and knit with pencils. I really love imagining little Roman schoolchildren in woolen mittens and beanies, but it’s just not realistic.
Man, i looked up nalbinding. It’s knitting, 7000 years old, romans made their socks and mittens that way, it’s not crochet, of course, but it’s knitting. Apparently it was only named nalbinding in the 70s, it was just knit before.
Nålbinding and knitting are not the same. They look very similar in the finished product, and can be hard to tell apart by non-experts, but are made by entirely separate processes. Because of the difficulty in identification - because honestly, many archeologists and historians before the 1970s were extremely ignorant on the history of “day to day” folks - many items were misidentified.
What the granny did was spool knitting - see https://youtu.be/cWNhi1iEIvk?si=g38FJCuCr3l78gPe
Nålbinding looks like - https://youtu.be/ouOHK-D0TGM?si=uXTwlbXpl6IyOdvY
Key differences: Nålbinding uses smaller, shorter strands tied together (early spinning methods = shorter bits to work with). Nålbinding works with one finger holding the stitches, the earliest knitting (which tbh, didn’t really reach Europe until the late medieval period) was worked in the round on multiple double pointed needles. What the earliest knitting looked like wouldn’t have looked what granny was doing, or either of the two videos linked above. (I tried to find a video but FUCK dpens, circ gang 4lyf)
Yeah I watched the video. it’s knitting dude.
You’re wrong, but here’s some cool socks that someone might have worn while making dodecahedrons: https://youtu.be/SCIV27RVA90?si=inVWHIQz5bDV9LV3
Nålbinding is a very different technique because it is early - working with small scraps of fiber because you’re just grabbing what’s available, and it’s a technique that closes itself (unlike knitting or crochet, you don’t have to “weave in” the ends). Nålbinding also involves you working “off thumb.”
It’s very fun to imagine that Romans had a nifty way of mass producing gloves. But it’s a massive stretch. Clothing was made at home, by the women of the home. Poor women would not have been able to afford a fancy doohickey. Wealthy women didn’t make their own clothes. Prestige clothing (eg togas) was primarily woven.
I’ve seen lots of cool people make art with things that weren’t intended for the purpose of making art, and that’s great! Folks can write messages in the sky with airplanes - that doesn’t mean that airplanes were invented for skywriting.
dude, they’re just using their thumb instead of a spool with nails in it, or perhaps these weird objects. its the same thing.
It might be helpful to try both techniques yourself.
You can buy a spool at Walmart for pretty cheap, they’re often available at thrift stores for less. You’ll want to look up an “i-cord” tutorial. Any old yarn will do honestly, the acrylic super savers will work.
Nålbinding will require that you use wool. The joining process involves felting the ends together (an extra knitter might do this, but it’s not necessary - it’s okay to tie them together because you’re weaving in ends afterwards). Felting is using water and patience to shape wool. For practice, you can use a cheap plastic tapestry needle honestly - save money here because the wool is going to run you a bit more.
I find nålbinding uncomfortable and slow, personally.
Do you also think crochet and knitting are the same? This is a totally different fiber art. I both knit and crochet and would not be able to hop right into this; totally different movements and methods and ways of weaving the yarn. Just because the products are similar does not make it the same.
I hope you’re trolling because you’re getting me good lmao
Here’s the thing. You said “nålbinding is knitting.”
Is it in the same family? Yes. No one’s arguing that.
As someone who is a scientist who studies knitting, I am telling you, specifically, in science, no one calls nålbinding knitting. If you want to be “specific” like you said, then you shouldn’t either. They’re not the same thing.
If you’re saying “knitting family” you’re referring to the hobby of weaving, which includes things from crochet to macramé to plaiting.
So your reasoning for calling nålbinding knitting is because random people “call fabric crafting knitting?” Let’s get felting and tatting in there, then, too.
Also, calling something knitting or weaving? It’s not one or the other, that’s not how taxonomy works. They’re both. Nålbinding is nålbinding and a member of the knitting family. But that’s not what you said. You said a nålbinding is knitting, which is not true unless you’re okay with calling all members of the knitting family knitting, which means you’d call macramé, plaiting, and other weaving methods knitting, too. Which you said you don’t.
It’s okay to just admit you’re wrong, you know?