• SpookySnek@sh.itjust.works
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    9 months ago

    Do you think that Russia would have been banned if Ukraine started the invasion by massacring hundreds of innocent civilians at a rave party in Russia, and took random tourists back home to Ukraine to rape them, and then spread videos of it all?

    Now, Israel is all but innocent. But it is not 1:1 comparable

    • arymandias@feddit.de
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      9 months ago

      Indeed it’s not a 1 to 1 comparison. One country is ordered by the ICJ to stop committing a potential genocide, and the other isn’t.

      Edit: added the word ‘potential’ to more accurately represent the ICJ ruling.

      • SpookySnek@sh.itjust.works
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        9 months ago

        It has been ordered to PREVENT a hypothetical genocie, not to stop “committing a genocide”.

        Israel has done enough bad shit that you don’t need to lie to prove your point

        • arymandias@feddit.de
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          9 months ago

          Who is committing the hypothetical genocide?

          Russia started a war of aggression so it makes sense they are banned from Eurovision till that has been resolved.

          Israel is committing war crimes on a scale that is rare in modern history, so also a good reason to be banned.

          And bringing up the oktober 7 attacks kinda sounds hollow after the response from Israel. Hammas killed 1.139 and Israel killed well over 25.000.

          • SpookySnek@sh.itjust.works
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            9 months ago

            Hamas committed a direct attack on civilians, without any military target in mind what-so-ever. Obviously this will be a serious crime against humanity in most people’s eyes that makes it harder to count Israel’s response as unwarranted, counting in their wrongdoings.

            With the Rus-Ukr conflict, the same country is both the aggressor and the attacker that started the invasion. That makes it easier to see who the undoubtedly “bad guy” is.

            • arymandias@feddit.de
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              9 months ago
              1. Hamas is not taking part in Eurovision.
              2. A war crime is a war crime and a genocide is a genocide, no matter the justification.
              3. Calling Hammas the aggressor ignores quite a bit of complicated history.
              • SpookySnek@sh.itjust.works
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                9 months ago

                Hamas is the aggressor in this specific part of the almost 100 year old conflict, that resulted in the current circumstances.

                What genocide are you referring to?

                • arymandias@feddit.de
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                  9 months ago

                  None in particular, I’m saying there is no excuse for genocide. So to determine if Israel is committing one, the actions of Hamas are irrelevant.

                • Fushuan [he/him]@lemm.ee
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                  9 months ago

                  Well, if you cut it like that, you could cut it a month later. Now Israel is the aggressor!

                  It’s not that simple.

                • Fiona@feddit.de
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                  9 months ago

                  By that logic the specific part of the current genocide in Gaza Israel is the unambiguous aggressor.

                  Like: You cannot just ignore what came before. WTF?

                • ???@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  “Conflict” makes it sound like a dispute. Let’s call it what REALLT is: apartheid, occupation, and ethnic cleansing.

            • porcariasagrada@slrpnk.net
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              9 months ago

              hamas are terrorists. all terrorism is a crime against humanity. but what israel is doing is also a crime against humanity. even the settlements could be considered such a thing. and i’m not even going to talk about the fact that palestinian refugees don’t have a right of return to their land, that opens a new definition of crime done by a state.

              israel must be isolated, banning them from eurovision is a must for the organization. uefa and fifa should ban them as well from international competitions. but this isolation is already late and the current actions of israel reflect the inaction of the international community towards their many habitual crimes against palestinians.

            • Syndic@feddit.de
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              9 months ago

              Hamas committed a direct attack on civilians, without any military target in mind what-so-ever.

              About 1/4th of the Israelis deaths on October 7th were members of the military. The IDF by it’s own reports has killed two civilians for every Hamas member, so 1/3rd of the deaths are military. They have killed at least 10k civilians in one month, so just a bit more than Russia did in the whole war but 10 times as much as Hamas managed! With those numbers let’s keep in mind that Hamas are terrorists while the IDF is an organised army of a democratic state which claims to uphold human rights even in war times.

              So yeah, neither side gets a medal from me for holding back against civilians.

            • ???@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              I’m disappointed that we are both snek. I maintain that I’m spookier than you.

              Btw Hamas mostly attacked military installations, military infrastructure, and military targets. Not an excuse for killing civilians, but I see this piece of misinformation being thrown around a lot and I wonder where it came from.

                • ???@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  So do you mean that no military tagerts were hit? Is this the claim we’re discussing here?

          • SpookySnek@sh.itjust.works
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            9 months ago

            Euro-Med Mon has been found to misquote and use falsified statistics several times, why are you relying on a third party to tell you the news from the press release when it is available publicly online on the ICJ website?

      • GenEcon@lemm.ee
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        9 months ago

        Thats just complete BS. Everyone can read the statement from the ICJ. And no, your claim is not part of it. So maybe stop spreading lies on the internet. Its not like this whole conflict is easy to discuss considering facts, but watering the discussion with lies doesn’t help anyone.

    • Shyfer@ttrpg.network
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      9 months ago

      You think this started on October 7th? What about the years beforehand of deaths? Do you need someone to bring out the chart again comparing civilian deaths for the last few decades?

    • Clay_pidgin@sh.itjust.works
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      9 months ago

      Another difference is that Russia attacked another Eurovision country. I don’t know why Israel is even in Eurovision, but Palestine definitely isn’t.