Or even to use this same example, why not blame the restaurant owner? They can choose to pay their waiters well and tell customers there’s no need for tipping.
This is the point that 50% of North Americans don’t understand. The restaurant owners have set the culture, and they exploit young people and customers alike. However, 50% of people think they’re entitled to eat out and therefore entitled to not tip, which only rewards the scummy restaurant owner for having exploitative business practices. Choosing to eat out and not tip makes tipping culture WORSE.
The idiot pro-tipping customers will still tip. They’ll try to sneak a tip and dumb shit like that. And I’m not about to blame a server for accepting free money.
But what price is fair? How is the owner supposed to just guess that?
I’d argue the wage that an employee voluntarily agrees to is about the fairest system possible: Make job posting, state the wage and job requirements, and people who find the wage fair then apply for it. I don’t see why this works fine in literally all other industries.
There’s nothing wrong with tipping. It’s the required tipping that’s the problem. What’s fair is a fair salary. Waiters are paid like $2 an hour because the restaurant owners are allowed to take tips into consideration, which is what I’m arguing against.
As a back of house worker, nothing was more disheartening then hearing all the servers go “I only made $200 in tips today in three hours” and being like “I only made $40 because I worked three hours.”
So you’ve been a server and are aware of the uneven pay and the fact that if you don’t get good enough tips you’re making a starvation wage of minimum wage, and yet you still decide “fuck those people who are being exploited by restaurant owners because I don’t agree with tipping.” That’s heartless
Or they could have been kitchen-staff. They are one of the biggest victims of tipping culture.
Essentially chefs are generally paid much, much less than wait-staff and it is very difficult to correct this balance. The reason is that in a normal business you would raise prices to afford to pay higher salaries, but since tips are percentage based this also raises the wages of wait-staff. This becomes a bigger and bigger issue the higher the tipping percentage goes. Restaurant margins tend to be razor thin as well, so raising prices would be the only way to raise kitchen-staff wages.
It’s one reason why many restaurants are struggling to find kitchen-staff, because even highly trained chefs can make 2-3 times as much working front-of-house. There are quite a few restaurants which are trying to fix this by banning tips, but it’s difficult due to resistance from customers and wait-staff.
Chain restaurant margins are not razor thin, to give an example, Olive Garden spaghetti costs about 30 cents total per bowl and is sold for $10.
I do not believe at all that the resistance is from customers or wait staff and everything to do with big restaurant chains refusing to pay a living wage, which also goes for kitchen staff who are also generally underpaid. Why pay your staff well if you can put the blame on the customers if they don’t tip?
How about we all agree that restaurant owners are the enemy? I don’t care that the 20 year old server working for the weekend doesn’t understand the nuance of the labor they engage in. They’re being exploited and you think that they’re the root cause of tipping culture, when in fact, it’s always been the restaurant owners.
Doesn’t matter who gets blamed, if things were corrupt the customer would be paying the same amount as tipping that much.
Tipping culture just gives the customer a chance to shirk.
The thing is the consumers are paying the cost. The business owners are just taking more of the profits. They just need to pay the workers more.
And the “choice” you mention is a false one. People can’t really refuse to pay a tip, can they? They’ll get a lot of hostility from the staff (who have been brainwashed to think that it’s the customers’ responsibility). Notice that this isn’t really a thing outside the US.
Of course they’re in favor of it you idiot its how they make a reasonable living. The people choosing to go to a restaurant are not victims in this arrangement.
If you can’t afford to dine out then maybe demand your boss pay you more. They’re the ones screwing you, not the waitress at Olive Garden.
Well sure, anyone would. If you give me $20 on a $100 bill, and you were in my section for an hour with 5-6 tables that all had similar bills and tipping percentage, I’d be ecstatic! That doesn’t mean it’s a good system for everyone. Hot girls make the most amount of tips while dudes serving break their back to make 15%. That hot 20 year old server that you had last time you went out to eat goes to Mexico once a month on her tips.
“Other struggling people are not the enemy”.
Op is jeff bezos alt account.
Or even to use this same example, why not blame the restaurant owner? They can choose to pay their waiters well and tell customers there’s no need for tipping.
This is the point that 50% of North Americans don’t understand. The restaurant owners have set the culture, and they exploit young people and customers alike. However, 50% of people think they’re entitled to eat out and therefore entitled to not tip, which only rewards the scummy restaurant owner for having exploitative business practices. Choosing to eat out and not tip makes tipping culture WORSE.
The idiot pro-tipping customers will still tip. They’ll try to sneak a tip and dumb shit like that. And I’m not about to blame a server for accepting free money.
But what price is fair? How is the owner supposed to just guess that?
I’d argue the wage that an employee voluntarily agrees to is about the fairest system possible: Make job posting, state the wage and job requirements, and people who find the wage fair then apply for it. I don’t see why this works fine in literally all other industries.
There’s nothing wrong with tipping. It’s the required tipping that’s the problem. What’s fair is a fair salary. Waiters are paid like $2 an hour because the restaurant owners are allowed to take tips into consideration, which is what I’m arguing against.
Required tipping isn’t a thing. Tipping is, by definition, always optional.
Going to go ahead and guess you’ve never worked in a restaurant, because you don’t know what you’re talking about.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
And I’ve also worked in a restaurant before. They are correct.
7.25 isn’t a living wage lol
That would depend on where you live.
You guessed wrong. I have a strong opinion against tipping specifically because of working in restaurants including as a server.
I did not like the inconsistent pay and would have preferred consistent pay. I’m sorry if that doesn’t align with your worldview.
As a back of house worker, nothing was more disheartening then hearing all the servers go “I only made $200 in tips today in three hours” and being like “I only made $40 because I worked three hours.”
Yep, having worked both sides is probably part of why I see tipping as so silly.
So you’ve been a server and are aware of the uneven pay and the fact that if you don’t get good enough tips you’re making a starvation wage of minimum wage, and yet you still decide “fuck those people who are being exploited by restaurant owners because I don’t agree with tipping.” That’s heartless
Yes, because I’m against the inconsistent pay I experienced and want it to end so others do not experience the same.
Heartless is continuing to encourage such a system.
Or they could have been kitchen-staff. They are one of the biggest victims of tipping culture.
Essentially chefs are generally paid much, much less than wait-staff and it is very difficult to correct this balance. The reason is that in a normal business you would raise prices to afford to pay higher salaries, but since tips are percentage based this also raises the wages of wait-staff. This becomes a bigger and bigger issue the higher the tipping percentage goes. Restaurant margins tend to be razor thin as well, so raising prices would be the only way to raise kitchen-staff wages.
It’s one reason why many restaurants are struggling to find kitchen-staff, because even highly trained chefs can make 2-3 times as much working front-of-house. There are quite a few restaurants which are trying to fix this by banning tips, but it’s difficult due to resistance from customers and wait-staff.
Chain restaurant margins are not razor thin, to give an example, Olive Garden spaghetti costs about 30 cents total per bowl and is sold for $10.
I do not believe at all that the resistance is from customers or wait staff and everything to do with big restaurant chains refusing to pay a living wage, which also goes for kitchen staff who are also generally underpaid. Why pay your staff well if you can put the blame on the customers if they don’t tip?
Well because the struggling people are blaming you when you don’t tip. They should blame the restaurant owner. But they blame the diner instead.
That’s why people take servers/waiters as the “enemy”
I definitely don’t see servers who support tipping as ‘the enemy’, just idiots.
I was literally a server for years too.
How about we all agree that restaurant owners are the enemy? I don’t care that the 20 year old server working for the weekend doesn’t understand the nuance of the labor they engage in. They’re being exploited and you think that they’re the root cause of tipping culture, when in fact, it’s always been the restaurant owners.
I think you’re deliberately misinterpreting what I’m saying. I am saying they should blame the restaurant owner.
But it certainly doesn’t help the situation when the server is blaming you and being hostile because you didn’t tip enough.
Doesn’t matter who gets blamed, if things were corrupt the customer would be paying the same amount as tipping that much. Tipping culture just gives the customer a chance to shirk.
Well if you are calling it “shirk” then it’s basically required. If it’s required why even give the illusion of a choice?
That’s my point. Tipping culture is stupid.
Consumers should pay the cost to consume, including materials, operations and staffing.
It’s not an illusion of choice, it is a choice, and a choice that abuses workers and confuses customers.
The thing is the consumers are paying the cost. The business owners are just taking more of the profits. They just need to pay the workers more.
And the “choice” you mention is a false one. People can’t really refuse to pay a tip, can they? They’ll get a lot of hostility from the staff (who have been brainwashed to think that it’s the customers’ responsibility). Notice that this isn’t really a thing outside the US.
People can refuse to pay tips and some people don’t care about that hostility.
Disagree. Most servers and bartenders are in favor of tipping culture and want it to stay this way with zero wages and societally enforced tips.
Yes, the corporations are the enemy, but these other struggling people are on the side of the actual enemy.
Of course they’re in favor of it you idiot its how they make a reasonable living. The people choosing to go to a restaurant are not victims in this arrangement.
If you can’t afford to dine out then maybe demand your boss pay you more. They’re the ones screwing you, not the waitress at Olive Garden.
Well sure, anyone would. If you give me $20 on a $100 bill, and you were in my section for an hour with 5-6 tables that all had similar bills and tipping percentage, I’d be ecstatic! That doesn’t mean it’s a good system for everyone. Hot girls make the most amount of tips while dudes serving break their back to make 15%. That hot 20 year old server that you had last time you went out to eat goes to Mexico once a month on her tips.
Exactly, so the people in favor of keeping the fucked up system are part of the problem