Yeah, of course the video doesn’t show any of the events leading up to the arrest, so we can only speculate what really happened.
Yes it doesn’t look like fun and I’m all for giving someone the benefit of the doubt, but the guy also looks and acts like he might be on drugs, and he’s out in public not wearing a shirt, which already shows at least a tendency towards blatant disregard for the rules, but either way, we should be careful to jump any conclusions when seeing something like that, because there’s definitely a big part of the story that’s missing here.
But the good news is, it looks like he survived, so I’m sure he’ll get to have his day in court to prove his innocence, and I sure hope that he won’t be punished excessively or unjustly.
If you automatically side with the supposed victim despite the clear lack of any information about prior events leading to this scene, I might as well accuse you of “uniform and badge, no presumption of innocence”. It’s just as biased and therefore bigoted as the opposite stance.
That’s why we have the courts, though. The cops will have to prove that they had a legitimate reason to make an arrest or the judge will just let the guy go. Happens often enough, believe it or not.
Again, without being able to see what happened before the video started, it’s hard to judge whether this was a proportionate response or not.
If your default assumption is ACAB and they’re just doing this to hurt him because they can, then you’re just as biased as you’re accusing me of being. And I’m not saying the cops are by always innocent by default, but I’ve also seen enough people like this guy act like major dickheads before claiming to be a victim of police brutality.
But once again, if he did nothing wrong, I hope he goes free. And with a nice check to boot, if they did use excessive force. But that’s up to the judge to decide, not me.
That’s IF the case goes to trial at all. If the cops can’t make a good enough case for why you should be charged with something, they often won’t even bother with that and just let you go. Remember, they ARE allowed to arrest you if they think you’re posing a danger to the public, but they’re not allowed to keep you locked up indefinitely without charging you with something.
Sure, it sucks if you get arrested when you did nothing wrong, but at least we can be pretty sure this guy is not going to a gulag for buying a pizza.
Ok but resisting arrest IS a crime. If you haven’t done anything wrong, just let them arrest you, they can’t keep you locked up without charging you with something.
Every single case of someone being convicted only for resisting arrest is a case where it would have been better for them to comply since the cops clearly either didn’t find anything else or couldn’t make any of the other charges stick.
Did you not see that video of a cop trying to murder someone over an acorn? As long as courts consistently give cops the benefit of the doubt, you should assume the worst of them.
It’s just an example. Like Breonna Taylor, who did nothing wrong, whose boyfriend (Kenneth Walker) did nothing wrong, while the police did multiple things wrong and ended up killing her.
But even looking beyond individual examples, the data shows police killed over 1,200 people in 2023. That’s a problem.
1,200 out of how many interactions with the public? Or even out of how many attempted arrests? Remember this is a country of over 300 million people, and 1,200 is 0.0004% of that. For comparison, over 45,000 people died in motor vehicle accidents in 2021 (source), so your chance of being killed in a car accident is almost 40x as high as that of being killed by police.
Yes, I looked at your source, it has tons of graphs but conveniently seems to forget to include that.
Among the 61.5 million U.S. residents age 16 or older in 2018 who had contact with police during the prior 12 months, 1.3 million (2%) experienced threats or use of force from police
Yes, there are 300 million but that negate the problem of police violence. You could make this argument about anything: gun violence, car crashes, even cancer. Their deaths are all a percent of a percent of the population.
No one is saying police violence is the number one killer in the country. The issue being raised is one side is saying it’s a problem and the other is saying actually it’s not a problem at all.
Okay, but let’s not move the goalposts now. If 61.5 million US residents had contact with the police, and out of those, 1,200 were killed, that’s approx. 0.002%.
Again, let’s compare that to the death by car accident rate, which is approx. 45,000/300,000,000 * 100 = 0.015%, which means driving a car is about 7.5x as dangerous to your life as interacting with the police. And I’m not saying there isn’t a problem, but do you see why some people are saying this isn’t really worth talking about?
…it’s not moving the goalposts. My initial comment stated it was a problem and that’s what my second comment said.
Again, cancer only kills ~600k in a year, which is only 2/10ths of 1% of the population. Better yet, it kills over 10x more people than car accidents. Does that mean car safety isn’t worth talking about?
And I’m not saying there isn’t a problem
This statement makes me think you are saying that:
…do you see why some people are saying this isn’t really worth talking about?
I do think this is worth talking about, just like I think the hundreds of death row convictions that have been overturned are worth talking about or the ~500k homeless Americans are worth talking about or the kids who have been killed in school shootings are worth talking about. These are all tiny percentages of people but they are still problems that are preventable so we should try to prevent them, which requires talking about them.
The “moving goalposts” was a reference to you going from number of police killings (which is relatively tiny compared to the number of police interactions) in your first comment to the number of people who experienced threats or use of force, which is 1,000x that.
But sure, let’s talk about that. The way I read it, that means 98% of all police interactions are nonviolent, and out of those that do turn violent, 1 in 1000 end with the death of a suspect. Does that really sound outrageously high? Yes, I’m sure that number is lower in other countries were guns are illegal, but considering that they ARE legal here and the police have to deal with the fact that getting shot at is always a very real possibility, this doesn’t sound like a crazy high number to me.
I do think this is worth talking about, just like I think the hundreds of death row convictions that have been overturned are worth talking about or the ~500k homeless Americans are worth talking about or the kids who have been killed in school shootings are worth talking about.
Okay, that’s fine, I’m not saying you shouldn’t. Just don’t blow it out of proportion, I guess.
i guess i made that one up but here’s a violent arrest over a pizza
Yeah, of course the video doesn’t show any of the events leading up to the arrest, so we can only speculate what really happened.
Yes it doesn’t look like fun and I’m all for giving someone the benefit of the doubt, but the guy also looks and acts like he might be on drugs, and he’s out in public not wearing a shirt, which already shows at least a tendency towards blatant disregard for the rules, but either way, we should be careful to jump any conclusions when seeing something like that, because there’s definitely a big part of the story that’s missing here.
But the good news is, it looks like he survived, so I’m sure he’ll get to have his day in court to prove his innocence, and I sure hope that he won’t be punished excessively or unjustly.
Well that’s a good first step
As yes, those two infamous crimes of “possibly being on drugs” and “no shirt, no presumption of innocence”
Come on man. Be better.
If you automatically side with the supposed victim despite the clear lack of any information about prior events leading to this scene, I might as well accuse you of “uniform and badge, no presumption of innocence”. It’s just as biased and therefore bigoted as the opposite stance.
That’s why we have the courts, though. The cops will have to prove that they had a legitimate reason to make an arrest or the judge will just let the guy go. Happens often enough, believe it or not.
Arrest, yes. I’m less on board with the violence. I’m all about a proportionate response.
And that’s in general terms. There’s a reason people think all cops are bastards and it’s not because they dislike the colour blue.
Again, without being able to see what happened before the video started, it’s hard to judge whether this was a proportionate response or not.
If your default assumption is ACAB and they’re just doing this to hurt him because they can, then you’re just as biased as you’re accusing me of being. And I’m not saying the cops are by always innocent by default, but I’ve also seen enough people like this guy act like major dickheads before claiming to be a victim of police brutality.
But once again, if he did nothing wrong, I hope he goes free. And with a nice check to boot, if they did use excessive force. But that’s up to the judge to decide, not me.
For people who can afford a half decent lawyer, sure. For people stuck with a public defender, it’s a crapshoot.
That’s IF the case goes to trial at all. If the cops can’t make a good enough case for why you should be charged with something, they often won’t even bother with that and just let you go. Remember, they ARE allowed to arrest you if they think you’re posing a danger to the public, but they’re not allowed to keep you locked up indefinitely without charging you with something.
Sure, it sucks if you get arrested when you did nothing wrong, but at least we can be pretty sure this guy is not going to a gulag for buying a pizza.
Tell me you’ve never tangled with the legal system without telling me…
I urge you to look up cases of people only convicted of resisting arrest.
Ok but resisting arrest IS a crime. If you haven’t done anything wrong, just let them arrest you, they can’t keep you locked up without charging you with something.
Every single case of someone being convicted only for resisting arrest is a case where it would have been better for them to comply since the cops clearly either didn’t find anything else or couldn’t make any of the other charges stick.
Yes
they
can
And if you haven’t done anything wrong, why do we need to be arrested? What moral system says it’s okay to beat someone and charge them for the pleasure?
Did you not see that video of a cop trying to murder someone over an acorn? As long as courts consistently give cops the benefit of the doubt, you should assume the worst of them.
Yeah, well, the cops were clearly in the wrong there.
It’s just an example. Like Breonna Taylor, who did nothing wrong, whose boyfriend (Kenneth Walker) did nothing wrong, while the police did multiple things wrong and ended up killing her.
But even looking beyond individual examples, the data shows police killed over 1,200 people in 2023. That’s a problem.
Source
1,200 out of how many interactions with the public? Or even out of how many attempted arrests? Remember this is a country of over 300 million people, and 1,200 is 0.0004% of that. For comparison, over 45,000 people died in motor vehicle accidents in 2021 (source), so your chance of being killed in a car accident is almost 40x as high as that of being killed by police.
Yes, I looked at your source, it has tons of graphs but conveniently seems to forget to include that.
Source (PDF)
Yes, there are 300 million but that negate the problem of police violence. You could make this argument about anything: gun violence, car crashes, even cancer. Their deaths are all a percent of a percent of the population.
No one is saying police violence is the number one killer in the country. The issue being raised is one side is saying it’s a problem and the other is saying actually it’s not a problem at all.
Okay, but let’s not move the goalposts now. If 61.5 million US residents had contact with the police, and out of those, 1,200 were killed, that’s approx. 0.002%.
Again, let’s compare that to the death by car accident rate, which is approx. 45,000/300,000,000 * 100 = 0.015%, which means driving a car is about 7.5x as dangerous to your life as interacting with the police. And I’m not saying there isn’t a problem, but do you see why some people are saying this isn’t really worth talking about?
…it’s not moving the goalposts. My initial comment stated it was a problem and that’s what my second comment said.
Again, cancer only kills ~600k in a year, which is only 2/10ths of 1% of the population. Better yet, it kills over 10x more people than car accidents. Does that mean car safety isn’t worth talking about?
This statement makes me think you are saying that:
I do think this is worth talking about, just like I think the hundreds of death row convictions that have been overturned are worth talking about or the ~500k homeless Americans are worth talking about or the kids who have been killed in school shootings are worth talking about. These are all tiny percentages of people but they are still problems that are preventable so we should try to prevent them, which requires talking about them.
The “moving goalposts” was a reference to you going from number of police killings (which is relatively tiny compared to the number of police interactions) in your first comment to the number of people who experienced threats or use of force, which is 1,000x that.
But sure, let’s talk about that. The way I read it, that means 98% of all police interactions are nonviolent, and out of those that do turn violent, 1 in 1000 end with the death of a suspect. Does that really sound outrageously high? Yes, I’m sure that number is lower in other countries were guns are illegal, but considering that they ARE legal here and the police have to deal with the fact that getting shot at is always a very real possibility, this doesn’t sound like a crazy high number to me.
Okay, that’s fine, I’m not saying you shouldn’t. Just don’t blow it out of proportion, I guess.