This is more of a 2 part question. Should child porn that does not include a real child be illegal? If so, who is being harmed by it?
The other question is; does giving a pedophile access to “imitation” children give them an outlet for their desire, so they won’t try to engage with real children, or does it just reinforce their desire, thus helping them to rationalize their behavior and lead to them being more encouraged to harm real children?
I’ve heard psychologists discuss both sides, but I don’t think we have any real life studies to go off of because the technology is so new.
I’m just curious what the other thought out there are from people who are more liberty minded.
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Unambiguously no. No victim exists, so no crime should be created. Creating laws based on the standard of “well, something bad could, at some point, happen, but we don’t know if or when” is how we’ve arrived at the massive regulatory state we have now.
IIRC studies showed that in areas where fake CP was available real victims of pedos decreased.
I don’t have a solid opinion on this. I know very little on the topic. I’m inclined to say no, unless very solid evidence exists that more children are being molested as a result of it.
Should AI Child Porn and Sex Dolls be Illegal?
Yes.
Extremely evil and twisted tendencies should be both forbidden and treated, not allowed and accepted. In this case, it’s not an outlet - it’s encouragement. “Oh, I don’t need to seek help, I can manage it thanks to AI”.
Hard stop.
Gosh, I can’t believe I’m typing this, because I find the topic of child abuse horrendous, heinous and disgusting.
But I don’t think your argument against it is enough. There are couples who consensually roleplay stuff like rape, murder, necrophilia, sex slavery… aren’t we encouraging these behaviors if we allow them too?
And I don’t want to think of the things people do to sex dolls, which are perfectly legal to own, in their privacy of their own homes.
The AI part, I can agree if said AI was trained with actual illegal material (yuck!)
But banning dolls? There has to be a better argument than “because it’s morally wrong.”
Again, I reject child abuse 100%.
Now, if you excuse me, I’ll go take a shower.
I totally agree with you. I don’t even want to know what people do in their private spaces. But if the training of an AI or anything similar caused real harm it should be strictly prosecuted even more if it comes to abusing children.
Nevertheless, I cannot support a ban that is based on personal attitudes and emotions and imposed on others. There are opinions and actions that I deeply detest and yet would not condemn as long as no one is harmed in any way in the process.
I feel disgusting sounding like I’m protecting them, but the fact is its not a choice, only acting upon it is and many dont. Give them an out that doesn’t harm others, that stops them seeking elsewhere, and make sure they have a way to get help to change.
Do normal adults who watch porn have difficulty controlling themselves around people? Maybe. I don’t. Not raping anyone isn’t difficult, no matter how attractive someone is to me. And no matter how much porn I consume, my ability to respect the concept of consent isn’t going anywhere, either.
There is no treatment of paedophilia which cures it. Unfortunately, research has shown that’s not possible. What modern therapies actually consist of, is moral rehabilitation, and self control training. Stuff that any normal person already knows. For a paedophile to actually act on their urges, they have to lack the things that stop any given person from raping, in addition to being a paedophile.
I’m nowhere near as convinced of the “no, allow none of it, ever” as you. I can’t imagine life without any outlet for my libido, be that porn or actual sex. I think most people with paedophilia, live their lives fully capable of never raping a child, no therapy necessary. No clear-minded person needs to be told they shouldn’t rape, and nothing about the condition itself means the person afflicted cant be clear-minded. A paedophile with the self-awareness to seek help isn’t doing it because they are attracted to kids, but because they are attracted to kids, and also aren’t sure they can stop themselves. If that was how humans worked by default, we’d all need “don’t rape” therapy.
Nothing about the condition means it would always be paired with an inability for moral thought or self control. If it did, the therapies we do have couldn’t work without curing the actual condition. And they do work. Just not the way most people probably think they do.
I’m not sure where the line should be, but due to the intense evil done by offending paedophiles, there is a well deserved stigma around the condition. The general public knows almost nothing about it except the damage it can do to those they care about. And yes, that means we should start with a line drawn as safely as possible, but we should also do the work and the actual research, to figure out how much can be done for these people, without harm.
And for the reasons above, I don’t think “nothing”, and “make it all forbidden” is that.
Please do not talk to me about science’s powerlessness to help “the poor”. For starters, it’s far from powerless. And I’d like to remind you that it’s not 1980, but 2023 year. Sex change therapies, hormone blockers, antidepressants and more aids to change not only one’s mental, but also physical self are available.
Providing one wants to search for them.
With that out of mind…
Listen now, and listen well, dude… The likes of you enjoy to take pity on “broken, twisted, wretched, weak” and think it’s humane to accept them into society. But you lot never entertain the idea of living door to door with the ones you’d want to defend. In your heads it all sounds nice, and logical, and honorable. But you want it to become other people’s burden, other people’s responsibility, other people’s struggle.
You say “I, me, mine, myself” as examples of how things are or might be, but you don’t put yourself in the scenarios that your ideas lead to. You won’t put the money where your mouth is, you won’t stain your hands with dirty job, you won’t strain your back with the weight that your ideas bring with them. You want for others to get the job done. You want to dictate to others what to do, what to think, how to act.
Want to make a point? Want to prove a thing? Go, befriend a convicted pedophile. Go, invite a guy known of masturbating to pictures of children like Madeleine to your home, to talk, play and touch your child. You may also want to tell everything you wrote to the people who suffered because of pedophiles.
Then we talk.
Right. Because if I knew someone who was one, they’d openly admit that to me. For all you know, I am one. But no. That’s not how this works. If you’re a paedophile with a clear head in modern society, you’d take that fact to the grave. Only if you didn’t trust yourself to never touch a child, is there any reason to out yourself and expose your life to the downsides of being known, in order to get help. But if you’re 100% sure you’ll never act, like you and I can be about never raping someone, why admit to it? With how hated you’d instantly become, there are only downsides.
And why the fuck would I befriend someone convicted? That’s like saying that to be ok with people who would like to have sex (everyone), I need to be ok with befriending and having around actual known rapists (criminals). People who want to have sex, are not automatically people who can’t stop themselves from taking it.
As for the option of eliminating one’s libido, thats a really good one. But which part of my comment made you think I believe science can’t help? I said it can’t be cured, I said the therapies we have, work. If eliminating one’s libido helps a person live their life, they should opt for it, paedophile or not. But choosing not to harm others isn’t difficult, unless there’s a lot more wrong with you than your sex drive being directed at children. You and me have no trouble respecting adults of whatever gender were attracted to, why should being a paedophile mean you’re any different?
You accuse me of not thinking this through… I laugh at you. Your last three paragraphs only work if you assume the condition automatically also makes a person evil and immoral. Yes, those people exist, and they should be locked away and never allowed into society. (again, WTF, a convicted pedo??? WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?)
But the condition itself, that one is attracted to children, has nothing to do with a person’s capacity for moral action. One’s mind, does not need to obey one’s biology. You can choose to not eat, even when hungry, because you can understand that eating more than is healthy, is bad. A normal person would stay virgin all their life, if they didn’t find a willing partner, because not raping isn’t difficult.
Should we shun people who have done evil? ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY! I don’t know which part of my comment made you think I believe otherwise. As for telling people who have suffered because of child rapists, that not all pedos are also rapists… Duh, but that’s also like telling a woman who was raped by a man, that not all men are rapists. She likely wont want to hear it, and should be helped through the trauma in whatever way is best for her. It would also be true. If you left a kid alone with a pedo who has the same moral compass as you and me, you’d never know they were a pedo, because they wouldn’t rape the kid.
This likely won’t get through to you, because you can’t separate the desires from the person. You can’t imagine someone desiring to do evil, not also being evil. That you can be hungry, without wanting to eat.
Right. Because if I knew someone who was one, they’d openly admit that to me. (…)
Prisons are full of these.
Send a letter. Interact with one. Invite him over to your house once he gets released.
Go on. Walk the walk.
Prove that you’re more than a cowardly wannabe-dictator who enjoys listening to his own voice more than to common reason.
Do it.
You didn’t read my comment. I want nothing to do with fucking criminals. Stop suggesting otherwise, you lunatic.
Stop trying to put words in my mouth. It’s not gonna work, especially if you won’t even read and understand what I am actually trying to say.
Responding like this, anyone who reads our exchange is gonna look at your responses, and determine you’re the crazy one, because what you are saying makes no fucking sense in response to me if you actually read and understand what I’m saying. Is that what you want?
You didn’t read my comment.
You didn’t read mine. No wonder, given how self-absorbed you are…
I want nothing to do with fucking criminals.
Ah, so everything’s fine and dandy with ya, if they aren’t caught and sentenced? Brilliant strategy, milord!
Now, I give you simple challenge: prove that you’re willing to set an example and coexist with those loathsome deviants you want for the society to embrace.
If you can’t, if you don’t want to - admit that your ideas aren’t that good.
I did read yours. What makes you think otherwise?
If someone who wants to kill, never does it, they shouldn’t be put in prison. They shouldn’t even be hated or feared.
Someone who gets away with it, should be in prison. Someone who did kill, should be hated and feared.
I will admit only one thing, that you refuse to understand what I’m actually trying to say.
I wouldn’t need to prove shit, if you had the capacity to think clearly enough to understand, or even fucking read.
