From all the concern trolling I see in the other instances it’s clear that there’s no winning over these people. Everything is “Kremlin propaganda” to them. I do think a lot of chapos did go a little overboard with the PPB, but even thoughtful responses were met with the “hateful rhetoric” and “Kremlin talking points” BS. As always, it is to the Global South we must look to for any hope in the future…
There is always “we can’t do a revolution here but we can funnel resources to where a revolution could succeed” but that’s an edge case and I agree with the sentiment.
IDK where I land between genuinely thinking a revolution will ever happen in the imperial core (at least in a meaningful amount of time before it all collapses due to climate change) but I think it’s also possible to think, “We might never see a revolution here, but we can do our best to lay the groundwork for one and seed enough class consciousness as to prevent further US imperialist interventionism” which is different to defeatism IMO. Not that revolutionary defeatism doesn’t also have its place.