• Pupschism@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    142
    ·
    5 months ago

    For those who didn’t read the article, the game is already released, it’s the Paper Mario Thousand Year Door remake. In the Japanese text of the original gamecube release, Vivian was a trans character. The English localisation of the Gamecube release cut out all references to her being trans.

    The article is saying the Switch remake’s English translation now contains the cut dialogue that fleshes out Vivians backstory.

    • unreasonabro@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      24
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      5 months ago

      that’s so fugly. gotta love it when stuff gets not lost, but thrown out in translation because some snobby corporate idiotfucker is too condescending to tell you the truth. How many other times has that happened in the last three thousand years, I wonder rhetorically.

      • GTKashi@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        12
        ·
        5 months ago

        I’d like to take a moment so sit right there while we discuss most of the history of anime localization.

        • lightnegative@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          5 months ago

          Some things, like honorifics, dont translate well to English.

          For example, the -chan, -sama, -kun etc suffixes are super annoying when the English voice actors try to use them.

          They’re fine in the English subtitles against the Japanese audio though

          • GTKashi@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            5 months ago

            All of this is true, but I think what I was replying to was more concerned with censorship and rewriting things to fit a more Puritan or at least prudish outlook on the world.

    • JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      ·
      edit-2
      5 months ago

      In the original Japanese translation, Vivian is referred to as an otokonoko (which also can mean just “boy”) and the game often uses otoko (man) and otoutou (little brother) to refer to them - so the intention was most likely to paint them more as a crossdresser.
      English localisation completely removed all traces of these, just makin Vivian a girl.
      And now the remake, for both languages, makes Vivian explicitly trans.

      Wouldn’t be the first two decades old Japanese game that had to rethink crossdressing/trans characters in their remakes.

      • Jojo, Lady of the West@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        5 months ago

        I feel it’s worth noting that everyone calling you he/him or “little brother” or “man” doesn’t make you not a girl. She’s referred to in game as オトコノコ (otokonoko), which is written ambiguously like that so it can either be 男の子 meaning boy or 男の娘 literally meaning “male daughter”. When she’s referred to as ‘man’, she feels insulted, and she uses feminine first-person pronouns and calls herself one of “three sisters.”

        Saying she’s “just a crossdresser” is a possible interpretation, but not one that is clear and unassailable. In translation, she’s either just a girl, explicitly trans, or somewhat ambiguous more like the original Japanese, so the people publishing the game don’t seem to think of her as just a crossdresser.

        All that to say, she’s been trans for a while, even explicitly, it’s just happening in the English version of the game now.

        • JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          5 months ago

          I feel it’s worth noting that everyone calling you he/him or “little brother” or “man” doesn’t make you not a girl.

          Obviously, but when the narration and descriptions use those as well, it gives it more importance than just having other characters misgender them in conversation.

          男の娘 literally meaning “male daughter”

          Which is the otokonoko I linked to. If the term was used today it would be much more ambiguous, but the game came out in 2004 when that term was essentially only used for" crossdressers" in Japan - what I guess we’d these days call femboys - and basically never for trans people. That meaning came almost two decades later, and some would even argue that it shouldn’t be used for them at all.

          • Jojo, Lady of the West@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            5 months ago

            when the narration and descriptions use those as well, it gives it more importance than just having other characters misgender them in conversation.

            Maybe, but it could also just be the nature of the culture at the time to talk about trans people that way. “A boy who thinks he’s a girl” is just, by our current understanding, a transphobic description of a trans girl.

            the game came out in 2004 when that term was essentially only used for" crossdressers" in Japan - what I guess we’d these days call femboys - and basically never for trans people.

            I’m not close enough to say with any authority that it was or wasn’t, but the use of that word, even in third person narrative descriptions of her, doesn’t really sound like “they’re definitely just a crossdresser” so much as someone euphemistically describing a trans girl. Especially when the character herself references herself as a girl. That right there is really the most important part.

            By all means don’t just trust the word of a random girl on the Internet, but there ya go