Do you guys have good resources on how to feed your dog vegan?

There are a lot of pages online that simply say “consult an advisor” who will calculate what your dog needs. I’m not bad in maths, I could calculate it myself if I’d knew what the dog needs. I can look into commercial dog food ingrediants but there are declarations like “minerals” without any further specificiations. Moreover, I eat a huge variety in differrent vegetables and food in general, yet my dog shall always eat the same according to vegan complete feed. Moreover, I can not properly judge whether a feed is good because the information is missing.

Where does the nutritionist get his information from? There must be someone who has studied the needs of a dog based on size and breed and created a formula such that you can calculate the servings.

I’ve looked into books on amazon and the comments are horrible. There’s nothing on libgen and google scholar doesn’t yield appropriate results.

      • iiGxC@slrpnk.netMEnglish
        1313·
        5 months ago

        Please update to a scientific position rather than assuming

        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/ The Impact of Vegan Diets on Indicators of Health in Dogs and Cats: A Systematic Review (2023)

        “However, there is little evidence of adverse effects arising in dogs and cats on vegan diets. In addition, some of the evidence on adverse health impacts is contradicted in other studies. Additionally, there is some evidence of benefits, particularly arising from guardians’ perceptions of the diets. Given the lack of large population-based studies, a cautious approach is recommended. If guardians wish to implement a vegan diet, it is recommended that commercial foods are used.”

        • Billegh@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1011·
          5 months ago

          I’m pretty sure that the entire scientific community would agree that dogs can’t consent to a vegan diet. We don’t force humans without consent, why would you force a dog to do that?

          • iiGxC@slrpnk.netMEnglish
            178·
            5 months ago

            Dogs can’t consent to nonvegan kibble, leashes, living in houses, and countless other things

            • Billegh@lemmy.worldEnglish
              612·
              5 months ago

              That’s correct, but dogs don’t naturally eat a “vegan” diet, and there is evidence all over the place as to whether or not that’s good or safe for them. I would tend to be ok with housing a dog, but not with what is essentially still an experimental diet.

              • iiGxC@slrpnk.netMEnglish
                85·
                5 months ago

                So far the evidence is that as long as it’s nutritionally complete, it’s safe. See the review I linked above

                • Billegh@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  34·
                  5 months ago

                  I’ve seen reviews all saying things every which way. Please don’t take it personally when no one trusts your pet review.

    • iiGxC@slrpnk.netMEnglish
      149·
      5 months ago

      Please update to a scientific position rather than assuming

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/ The Impact of Vegan Diets on Indicators of Health in Dogs and Cats: A Systematic Review (2023)

      “However, there is little evidence of adverse effects arising in dogs and cats on vegan diets. In addition, some of the evidence on adverse health impacts is contradicted in other studies. Additionally, there is some evidence of benefits, particularly arising from guardians’ perceptions of the diets. Given the lack of large population-based studies, a cautious approach is recommended. If guardians wish to implement a vegan diet, it is recommended that commercial foods are used.”

    • iiGxC@slrpnk.netMEnglish
      1213·
      5 months ago

      Please update to a scientific position rather than assuming

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/ The Impact of Vegan Diets on Indicators of Health in Dogs and Cats: A Systematic Review (2023)

      “However, there is little evidence of adverse effects arising in dogs and cats on vegan diets. In addition, some of the evidence on adverse health impacts is contradicted in other studies. Additionally, there is some evidence of benefits, particularly arising from guardians’ perceptions of the diets. Given the lack of large population-based studies, a cautious approach is recommended. If guardians wish to implement a vegan diet, it is recommended that commercial foods are used.”

    • iiGxC@slrpnk.netMEnglish
      1017·
      5 months ago

      Please update to a scientific position rather than assuming

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/ The Impact of Vegan Diets on Indicators of Health in Dogs and Cats: A Systematic Review (2023)

      “However, there is little evidence of adverse effects arising in dogs and cats on vegan diets. In addition, some of the evidence on adverse health impacts is contradicted in other studies. Additionally, there is some evidence of benefits, particularly arising from guardians’ perceptions of the diets. Given the lack of large population-based studies, a cautious approach is recommended. If guardians wish to implement a vegan diet, it is recommended that commercial foods are used.”

  • Beaver@lemmy.caEnglish
    143·
    5 months ago

    Damn this post got chewed up hard despite being on a vegan community

  • Konomi@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    144·
    5 months ago

    Overall, it seems the jury is still out on whether feeding our carnivorous four-legged friends vegan diets is actually safe. What we can be certain about is that both strong pro- or anti vegan pet feeding arguments are potentially misguided, and not backed by evidence. For now, owners committed to feeding their pets a vegan diet should take a cautious approach. Use a complete and balanced commercial vegan diet formulation, and schedule regular health checks with a veterinarian.

    There is an urgent need for large-scale population-based studies to further investigate this question, with a particular focus on assessing the dietary aspects cited to be of particular concern, e.g., taurine and folate. For guardians wishing to feed their pets vegan diets at the current time, based on the available evidence it is recommended that commercially produced vegan diets are used since these are less likely to lead to nutrient imbalances.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/

    “In the few studies that measured health directly through examining the animals or running laboratory tests, there was little evidence of adverse health impacts from vegan pet diets. Nutrient levels were generally within normal range, no heart or eye abnormalities were detected, and body and coat condition were normal.”

    “However, it’s important to note these studies often involved low numbers of animals, with vegan diets only being fed to animals for a few weeks – so deficiency may not have had time to develop. Furthermore, the study designs were often ones considered less reliable in evidence-based practice, for example with no control groups used as a comparison.”

    “For now, owners committed to feeding their pets a vegan diet should take a cautious approach. Use a complete and balanced commercial vegan diet formulation, and schedule regular health checks with a veterinarian.”

    https://theconversation.com/are-vegan-pet-diets-as-unhealthy-as-theyre-claimed-to-be-heres-what-the-evidence-says-197409

    For me personally I wouldn’t try to keep a dog and especially a cat on a vegan diet until there’s more robust evidence to say that it would be safe to do so.

    • GravitySpoiled@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
      716·
      5 months ago

      Thanks for your input. There’s enough evidence for the akc https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/nutrition/dogs-can-adapt-to-a-vegan-diet/

      Dogs prefer meat, but a vegan or vegetarian diet is possible with the right supplements.

      Which means there’s also enough evidence for me. Peta may be biased but if you believe their work is good, you may also quote them https://www.peta.org/living/animal-companions/vegetarian-cats-dogs/

      Can Dogs and Cats Be Vegan?

      Yes! With the right planning and care, your dog or cat can be vegan. Of course, it’s important to ensure that their nutritional requirements are met.

      Like with a human vegan diet, if you do it wrong, it’s bad. But if you feed yourself or your dog wrongly with meat it’s also bad.

        • GravitySpoiled@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
          49·
          5 months ago

          The problem with scientific papers is that I could provide you one, or even more but I am not (yet) in the psoition to judge which paper is reliable. There are too many parties involed and it depends upon the financee of the paper. Therefore I provided the link to akc which depends on scientific and general believes. They have no direct incentive in one or the other stance. One of their goals is to take care of dogs. If it was questionable, they should reflect it in their stance. They do not reflect it, hence there is not enough evidence against it, as long as you take proper care of the dog.

          One paper supporting a vegan diet

          https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0265662

          But:

          This research and its publication open access was funded by food awareness organisation ProVeg International

          • Konomi@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
            5·
            5 months ago

            That’s why I’d take the position of being cautious and waiting for better quality studies.

            There really needs to be more studies done and then a meta study to really nail this down. Or at least some high quality well reviewed studies.

  • Eevoltic@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    179·
    5 months ago

    Ah yes, the carnists coming into the comments in good faith ™️ to explain how the vegans are actually animal abusers never ceases to amaze me! Please kindly continue commenting so that you can be permanently banned from the community!

    Edit: Also, OP getting reported twice for “animal abuse”… seriously the moderator reports are all carnists reporting vegans on the vegan community 🤯

  • terwn43lp@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1813·
    5 months ago

    vegan dog food exists, don’t listen to the carnists here. the technology is evolving and people are in denial

    • GravitySpoiled@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
      79·
      5 months ago

      Thanks!

      At first I thought people were downvoting because I mentioned libgen but then the first comments appeared and I quickly understood that there’s a lack of information. I didn’t know that it was that bad prior to this thread.

    • iiGxC@slrpnk.netMEnglish
      1316·
      5 months ago

      Please update to a scientific position rather than assuming

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/ The Impact of Vegan Diets on Indicators of Health in Dogs and Cats: A Systematic Review (2023)

      “However, there is little evidence of adverse effects arising in dogs and cats on vegan diets. In addition, some of the evidence on adverse health impacts is contradicted in other studies. Additionally, there is some evidence of benefits, particularly arising from guardians’ perceptions of the diets. Given the lack of large population-based studies, a cautious approach is recommended. If guardians wish to implement a vegan diet, it is recommended that commercial foods are used.”

    • iiGxC@slrpnk.netMEnglish
      1114·
      5 months ago

      your second link lmao: “Dr. Cailin Heinze, a board-certified veterinary nutritionist, and professor at Tufts University’s Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine writes: “Most dogs can do quite well on a carefully designed vegan diet that meets all of their nutritional needs.””

      keep in mind that a well formulated, “carefully designed” vegan kibble is just as “bad” as non-vegan kibble, so unless you’re against all kibble, nutritionally complete vegan kibble is fine. Animal abuse is needlessly killing and hurting animals, not finding ways to avoid it

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/ The Impact of Vegan Diets on Indicators of Health in Dogs and Cats: A Systematic Review (2023)

      “However, there is little evidence of adverse effects arising in dogs and cats on vegan diets. In addition, some of the evidence on adverse health impacts is contradicted in other studies. Additionally, there is some evidence of benefits, particularly arising from guardians’ perceptions of the diets. Given the lack of large population-based studies, a cautious approach is recommended. If guardians wish to implement a vegan diet, it is recommended that commercial foods are used.”

  • delirious_owlEnglish
    86·
    5 months ago

    Surprising misinformation here. What happened?

    Dogs and cats can be healthy vegans. But you do need to plan their nutrition if you cook yourself

    • Eevoltic@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      61·
      5 months ago

      What happened?

      I went to bed and didn’t lock the post. I’m the only active mod and my timezone seems to make it so that I am sleeping during these kinds of posts.

      • delirious_owlEnglish
        4·
        5 months ago

        Not sure we should lock posts. Dude had a legitimate question.

        Unless we just add this info to the sidebar?

  • iiGxC@slrpnk.netMEnglish
    87·
    5 months ago

    I’m not 100% certain, but I think if you contact a food company they should be able to provide that info?

    https://petfoodshop.com/collections/for-dogs/products/gourmet-fondue-dog-kibble?variant=44655458124060 evolution dog food for example has the guaranteed analyses, ingredients, and food amounts based on dog size on the label in one of the pictures

    As far as sources on the ideal amounts of different minerals to cross reference with the guaranteed analyses, I’m not sure, sorry I couldn’t be more help

    • GravitySpoiled@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
      65·
      5 months ago

      Thank you! No worries, everything helps :) My knowledge has impact on many dogs each year, I won’t quickly jump to conclusions.