Kiev has already pressed more than a million men into service but needs more MP Alexey Goncharenko has said Read Full Article at RTcom

Kiev will conscript 160,000 more troops over the next three months, according to statements from lawmakers and media outlets. More than a million soldiers have already been drafted, yet high losses have left the Ukrainian Armed Forces plagued by manpower shortages.

The Ukrainian Armed Forces had around 250,000 active-duty personnel at the beginning of 2022, a number that rapidly swelled once Vladimir Zelensky called up reservists and forbade draft-age men from leaving the country.

This spring, faced with mounting losses, Kiev lowered the draft age from 27 to 25 and significantly tightened mobilization rules, requiring potential recruits to report to conscription offices for “data validation.” These checks often result in people being immediately taken into the army and sent to the front line.

  • filister@lemmy.world
    202·
    21 天前

    Wars suck so much.

    To be honest, I don’t want to be forced to kill other human beings because of some shitty politicians who decided so.

    It makes me sick to the bone.

    • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
      1599·
      22 天前

      They don’t have a choice. It is this or being Russian slaves.

      Hey, thank you for your insightful comment!

      Could you please expand on that and tell me more about people in Crimea and other liberated cities being Russian slaves?

      Also while you are at it - could you please also explain to me how being unable to leave your country where you can be kidnapped on a street at any day and sent to die is not considered slavery / is better than “being Russian slave”? How did that happen that “Russian slaves” can move to Ukraine controlled territories at any time and supposedly stop being slaves, but those who are on Ukraine controlled territories cannot do the opposite (and yet for some reason you wouldn’t consider them slaves)?

            • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
              1231·
              22 天前

              Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй

              Да, хорошую историю с нашими “героями” которые якобы предпочли умереть чем сдаться русским форсили тогда в новостях… Потом правда оказалось что они таки все сдались, и даже в википедии на понятном для тебя языке это описано, но история то какая ;)

              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_warship,_go_fuck_yourself

              Anyway, calling me Ivan (a Slavic, not a Russian name) and writing to me in Russian to allege that I’m Russian is incredibly stupid… You do know that Ukraine (except the western part of it) speaks (or rather speaked, until the war and introduction of “language-police” in some cities…) Russian a lot, and especially so in cities? I’ve heard very little Ukrainian on the streets back when I lived in Ukraine :)

              Anyway, you do not seem to be interested in having a discussion or changing your mind :(

        • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
          618·
          21 天前

          I do think there is a point to make here. Ukrainians should be free to leave their country if they want.

          But you still support Zelensky’s regime that makes it impossible, don’t you? :/
          You might not believe me, but if Zelensky didn’t turn Ukraine into his small huge North Korea where trapped people are kidnapped from the streets and sent to the meatgrinder - I’d be donating money to my country every month. But Zelensky made sure to make this impossible - supporting his regime is supporting trapping innocent people in a war-torn country with missiles/drones/shells flying over them. People afraid of leaving their homes because “recruitment officers” can kidnap them them and send to die. People try to escape this hell, and die trying to “illegally” cross the border through rivers/mountains. Zelensky made sure to become our enemy #1.

          But anyway, I strongly disagree with your view that Russia’s imperialist invasion of Ukraine is “liberating” anything or anyone.

          But how is this not a liberation? Quote from a dictionary:

          To set free, as from oppression, confinement, or foreign control.

          People on the liberated territories are not confined and can leave at any time. People on Zelensky controlled territories quite literally cannot leave. You can argue that it wasn’t started as liberation. But it is now, unless my dictionary is wrong about the definition of word “liberate”. It didn’t have to be, but thanks to Zelensky it is.

            • Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml
              31·
              19 天前

              Are people in Ukrainian controlled territories free to protest against forced conscription and withdrawal of passports? No, they will get put into prison, and given a choice to join the military or serve a long sentence.

            • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
              38·
              21 天前

              Are people in Russian-occupied territories free to protest against Russia’s invasion of Ukraine? No. They would get put in prison, or worse. So they aren’t free.

              The only free people in this reality are billionaires. It’s not about who is free, it is about who is more free. Are you trying to say that people on liberated territories are less free than people on Zelensky controlled territories because… they can protest Russia’s invasion of Ukraine? So the ability to protest Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is more important than freedom of movement and not being kidnapped from the streets?

              I do think Ukrainians should be allowed to leave Ukraine.

              Well thank you at least for that (that’s not even sarcasm btw, that’s already more helpful than most of the world), but again - you support Zelensky’s regime which is the one making it impossible.

              But you seem to be blaming Zelenskyy for the Russian shells, being fired by Russian forces.

              I blame him for turning Ukraine into his North Korea. I blame him for trapping people, who die trying to cross the border by mountains/rivers, or hide at homes afraid to leave. I blame him for kidnapping people from the streets and sending them to the meatgrinder (so, killing them).

              For some reason you don’t want to put any blame at all on the Kremlin - why is that?

              Here it is: I condemn Kremlin, Russia, Putin and everybody else responsible for this war.

                • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
                  21·
                  19 天前

                  I have looked only at the name of the links and not the actual content (there are too many of them) - but I didn’t notice anything about North Koreans being able to leave the country by means other than “illegally” crossing the border (this is the criterian I used to compare the countries)? If one of the links covers this topic I’d be interested in reading it.

    • interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml
      26·
      21 天前

      Statists are monsters, it does not matter which is the colour of their ideas.

      To all statists, the penalty for the crime of conscription is that I will exterminate all of your officers and officials. I will expunge the myth of your nation like the disease that it is.

      Death to the egregores !

  • fox2263@lemmy.worldEnglish
    2138·
    22 天前

    lol forced.

    The wording of these things. While technically correct, it’s a draft. Because you know, the thousand day invasion threatening their existence.

    • SoJB@lemmy.mlEnglish
      3614·
      22 天前

      That’s literally what forced means. Are you an Israeli or something?

      • fox2263@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1126·
        22 天前

        It’s the negative connotation of the wording that I was implying, not the meaning.

        Are you American or something?

        • geneva_convenience@lemmy.mlOP
          1616·
          22 天前

          He is implying Ukrainians are not drafted Israel style. There is no 30 day prison vacation for refusing to obey. These people are thrown in the back of a van and transported to the battlefield to slightly extend what is already a lost war.

          The west is not serious about supporting Ukraine to victory. That much should be obvious by now. Even the mainstream newspapers are saying Ukraine is not fighting to win now.

          • fox2263@lemmy.worldEnglish
            713·
            22 天前

            I’m not Israeli though. What is Israeli style. Israel is not being invaded.

            Without sending troops, there isn’t much else the west can do beyond allowing deep strikes with their missiles which I agree should never have been an issue.

            Again though, conscription via a draft while forced yes, is not the inference of the wording of the article. It’s trying to paint Ukraine in a bad light for having to do it vs Russia who have done worse for their manpower goals.

            • geneva_convenience@lemmy.mlOP
              145·
              22 天前

              The argument is not “Russia good”. Russia bad too.

              The point is: any Ukrainian who is not ideologically driven to fight against Russia should not be forced to do so. Their deaths will not achieve anything meaningful.

              This is a war of attrition. Ukraine has not received the military support required to win.

              • fox2263@lemmy.worldEnglish
                38·
                22 天前

                Hmm Ukraine can’t receive men so they have to use their own men. I don’t understand the argument

                • geneva_convenience@lemmy.mlOP
                  112·
                  22 天前

                  Ukraine can receive men. There are multiple volunteers from other countries fighting for Ukraine.

                  You too are allowed to go and fight for Ukraine. Are you willing to risk your own life, or admit that Ukrainian men are treated as disposable toys instead of humans?

    • CMonsterEnglish
      2·
      22 天前

      Conscription is usually an ongoing event. A draft is a specific, often temporary, implementation of conscription.

    • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
      1135·
      22 天前

      Because you know, the thousand day invasion threatening their existence.

      Whose existence?
      Seriously, what kind of mental gymnastics one needs to do to consider this a valid argument…
      Show me, how is the existence of people on liberated territories (like Crimea, Melitopol and so on) are threatened?
      Or maybe those people are actually okay (well, at least relatively to those of us who are still stuck on Zelensky controlled territories…) and it’s the lives of those whom Zelensky can still reach are threatened, because his regime can kidnap them at any moment and send to the meatgrinder?

        • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
          617·
          22 天前

          Is it better to be drafted now, or wait until Putin has another territory to “liberate”

          Are you absolutely seriously asking whether it is better to almost cetrainly die now, or have a chance of dying in some hypothetical situation later? I’ll choose the latter every single time, thank you…

          Is it suddenly ok when it’s Russia drafting “free” Ukrainians from those “liberated” territories?

          No, it’s also not OK. It doesn’t happen on even remotely similar scale to what Zelensky is doing.

          Are the kidnapped children free now? Happy? Doubtful.

          Probably not.
          At least they are alive in contrast to all the men Zelensky’s regime kidnapped and sent to die.

          Living there, it seems like you live your normal life. But you can’t express your thoughts, there are topics you can’t discuss, you can’t go where you want. You live like a spider in a jar. You are kept inside, and you run in circles like horses in a circus ring. Those who expect Ukraine to save us are having a hard time. It’s hard on morale. You’re not allowed to speak about Ukraine; Ukrainian symbols are banned. If you hear something, or say something they think is wrong, they grab you and put you in a basement.

          So, the same as in Ukraine, but without the kidnappings and with an ability to leave at any time.

          • tired_n_bored@lemmy.world
            43·
            21 天前

            Maybe if blood thirsty dictator putin didn’t start a war of aggression, there could have been 0 deaths. I’d rather die fighting russia than dying by their firing squad, being raped, tortured, electrocuted or malnourished in their prisons.

            • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
              27·
              21 天前

              Maybe if blood thirsty dictator putin didn’t start a war of aggression, there could have been 0 deaths.

              That’s probably correct. I’m not Putin though, could you please not hold me accountable for his actions?

              I’d rather die fighting russia than dying by their firing squad, being raped, tortured, electrocuted or malnourished in their prisons.

              Ok, that’s your choice, you are free to do whatever you want, including dying for your beliefs, it is not a problem.
              A problem begins when you want/support other people dying for your beliefs.

              • tired_n_bored@lemmy.world
                42·
                21 天前

                I’m not Putin though, coulf you please not hold me accountable for his actions?

                But “Ukraine bad”, “Russia good” right? Why criticizing only Ukraine and Zelensky since they’re defending their land and not even a word against Russia or Putin?

                You make it seem like that surrendering to an invasion is the right thing to do. So if Russia decided to invade the whole of Europe we should sit waiting for russian soldiers to rape our sisters and moms and execute us with our hands tied behind our back?

                Moreover, in occupied Ukraine people get drafted anyways by Russia to fight Ukrainian soldiers. So what? Should they surrender waiting to go to the opposite side?

                • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
                  34·
                  21 天前

                  But “Ukraine bad”, “Russia good” right? Why criticizing only Ukraine and Zelensky since they’re defending their land and not even a word against Russia or Putin?

                  I never said “Russia good”.
                  Here, just for you: Russia and Putin are bad.

                  You make it seem like that surrendering to an invasion is the right thing to do.

                  No, I don’t.

                  So if Russia decided to invade the whole of Europe we should sit waiting for russian soldiers to rape our sisters and moms and execute us with our hands tied behind our back?

                  No, you are free to do what you want, including fighting Russia. But if you try to to kill me, my family, my friends - don’t be surprised that I’d rather support Russia than you…

                  Moreover, in occupied Ukraine people get drafted anyways by Russia to fight Ukrainian soldiers. So what? Should they surrender waiting to go to the opposite side?

                  People who accept Russian citizenship (which is generally not forced onto anyone) may get drafted (there was some exemption though for people on liberated territories till 2024, not sure if it’s still in effect though). People are frre to leave at any moment though.
                  This is also wrong, but in no way comparable to Zelensky’s regime kidnapping people on the streets every single day and trapping them in the country. (There were some cases of that happening in LPR & DPR previously, which is also terrible, but again not nearly on a similar scale to what Zelensky is doing)

          • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
            67·
            21 天前

            Lol, people usually report me because “spreading misinformation/propaganda” or something along those lines, but @SomeGuy69@lemmy.world is more creative and reported this comment for “talking like a true rapist” :D

  • P_P@lemm.eeEnglish
    2139·
    22 天前

    Forced? Their fighting for their survival for fuck’s sake.