A US State Department report that accuses the Chinese government of expanding disinformation efforts is “in itself disinformation,” Beijing’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs claimed Saturday.
The ministry shot back after the State Department issued a striking report this week in which it accused the Chinese government of expanding efforts to control information and to disseminate propaganda and disinformation that promotes “digital authoritarianism” in China and around the world.
The US report, issued by the Global Engagement Center on Thursday, alleged that China spends billions of dollars a year on foreign information manipulation and warned that Chinese leader Xi Jinping had “significantly expanded” efforts to “shape the global information environment.”
It also underlined US concerns about China as a main military competitor and key rival in the battle over ideas and global disinformation.
Fits this to a T.
T as in Trumpist
This is exactly what I was looking for.
This is funny. It also reflects in Lemmy. For example, take this tankie comment claiming "zelensky made having peace negotiations with putin ILLEGAL", based on an article which says "Zelensky’s decree released Tuesday declares that holding negotiations with Russian President Vladimir Putin has become impossible after his decision to annex four regions of Ukraine."
Then watch how mods from lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml ban users and delete comments which question their narrative.
Cherry on top: A user from this curated bubble remarks that "Nobody actually has any argument against this", because of course they are shielded from comments who pointed out the inaccuracy of the claim, and don't question it themselves.
Compare yourself:
- lemm.ee version: https://lemm.ee/comment/3929526
- lemmygrad.ml version: https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/2389500
Now read that comment in the basement of this thread again:
Understand we American make more lie for pleasure and entertaining. Not chinese lie. China always with great truth.
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Had to open the links up in web version to see the difference. Ngl, it's something I expected lemmygrad to do. I'm glad to be on lemm.ee. I love the admins and their transparency and how their policies are democratically decided like when we voted to defederate Threads.
I also think there is nothing wrong with stuff like this and it's what lemmy was made for. If one instance doesn't like something, they can remove it, other instances may still want to see it, if members don't like it, they can move or have their own instance but can still interact. It's the beauty of decentralization.
comments which question their narrative.
But don't you see that's NATO propaganda. Want proof? Have a look at who posted it.
to be fair it's lemmygrad so it's the worse of qorse, not exactly lemmy in general
What are you talking about? The first reply to that comment has more upvotes and debunks it.
The first reply to that comment has more upvotes and debunks it.
Yes, from our point of view. This is fine. My point is, compare to their point of view.
All comments rectifying the lie got removed. Users from that instance see a whole other story. Only now that weird comment makes sense:
Nobody actually has any argument against this except ad hominems, which is usually fairly telling.
The OP article seems to talk about a similar situation, just in geopolitics, while we play in Lemmy. Two parties with very different narratives. One is heavily filtering and censoring, which allows people living in that bubble to honestly believe what they are being told. Because that's all they see, their Big Brother takes care.
Sorry, I am unsure how this federation thing works but your explanation made it much clearer.
It's unclear what you mean with "that comment", since my comment refers to three distinct comments, and two different views of a comment section, with different replies and upvotes. If you can narrow down your question (preferrably with a link), I will try to answer it.
Where
They are correct though whether you want to accept that or not. Zelensky has rejected peace talks because he is deranged and thinks he can take back Crimea. This user just put that in a weird way saying it's illegal.
Although he has made opposition parties illegal, and reporting against the war illegal as well. He has arrested a US citizen named Gonzalo Lira for his reporting
This user just put that in a weird way saying it’s illegal.
Exactly, legal/illegal is a well defined term. The president of Ukraine rejecting something does not make it "ILLEGAL".
Then go to Ukraine and speak out against his conditions for peace talks. You'll be arrested.
Typically when a country is at war due to being invaded, they don't take kindly to people pushing the invaders agenda.
Where in Gonzalo Lira's reporting did he push the Russian's agenda?
Trying to criticize a leader's decision that will kill thousands more should be free and openly allowed for their own citizens. Unfortunately it is not.
I saw some coverage from The Daily Beast that suggested Lira was spouting lots of misinformation, some of which were in line with general Russian talking points. Make of that what you will ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Well that's not really convincing but I'll look into it thanks.
Do the same in Russia about Russian terms and you'll have the same treatment, if you don't fall from a window beforehand.
Where did I say Russia was better?
[citation needed]. Which law, which section, which paragraph.
They can be arrested for a variety of made up charges to keep them quiet. There are some examples for you.
Indeed, Russia arrests people for things like saying that Crimea is Ukraine.
…have you actually read the article? Are you aware that it's talking about Russian suppression of journalism? That Ukraine got them out of Russian prison via prisoner exchanges?
That is your response to a thread starting out with a post pointing out tankies not bothering to read the sources they quote? To quote a source you didn't read?
One of the most well-known and popular journalists in Ukraine was yesterday arrested by the officers of the Security Service of Ukraine. Unfortunately, the dramatic situation in our country is being used for “cleansing” of opponents, in gross violation of all legal and juridical procedures. Yuriy Tkachev is a journalist from Odessa, Ukraine, editor-in-chief of the online magazine https://timer-odessa.net/. He was very critical of the former and also the current Ukrainian government for its policies afterwards the Maidan, and especially regarding the “Odessa massacre of May 2, 2014” and “Shootings on the Maidan”, whose investigations were stalled, postponed for many years and until today not concluded, among others.
???
not, you'll not, now shut up
lmao the ammount of stupidity and russia propaganda in that shit lmao, give me at least a source that don't say that much lies and shit
Then quote and disprove them.
Zelensky has rejected peace talks because he is deranged and thinks he can take back Crimea.
Zelensky had been talking a lot with Russia while Crimea was occupied, while they already occupied parts of Luhansk and Donetsk (by proxy). Even after the 2022 there were talks, you might remember the pictures of delegations sitting around a table in Belarus.
If you had read the article in question (or in fact OP's comment) you would've seen that it said:
Zelensky’s decree released Tuesday declares that holding negotiations with Russian President Vladimir Putin has become impossible after his decision to annex four regions of Ukraine.
Now, I will grant that yes of course that was a political move. He was known to be a Russia-friendly president, elected (among other things) because people thought Poroshenko was too heavy-handed. Such a declaration simply makes clear to the Ukrainian people that he's drawing a line in the sand, that his patience with Russia has ended.
And can you fucking blame him Russia just annexed four regions. How much talking do you think, say, Vietnam would do if China annexed four of their provinces or whatever they're called.
Ukraine has rejected those demands and won’t hold talks with Russia until Moscow’s troops pull back from all occupied territories. - link
Throughout the conflict this has been his demand to return Crimea for peace talks. This was never a realistic option.
If you had read the article in question
Yes I know his current stance, but he has always called for the return of Crimea.
And can you fucking blame him Russia just annexed four regions.
I understand how terrible this situation is for Ukraine as a whole, and I want it to end. The demands Zelensky has made from the beginning has only made certain that the war would continue. What we need is a ceasefire and neither side is making reasonable demands.
So… when I break into your home and eat your cookies, what are you going to do? Tell yourself that you should accept a ceasefire and let me have the couch?
I'm sick and tired of this vulgar pacifism that does nothing but embolden aggressors. No: You should punch me in the face and boot me the fuck out. If you don't I'll leave to do the exact same thing to your neighbour once the cookies are gone, and the flour and sugar is gone – because yes I'm first going to make you to make more, doormat.
Ask NATO, they're the aggressors that provoked this conflict. They expanded around Russia and heightened tensions by putting nuclear missiles in Turkey to provoke the Cuban missile crisis, so you know Russians don't want nuclear missiles in Ukraine. Same as we wouldn't want Russian missiles in Mexico.
That's the worst take yet.
Claiming NATO actions at the height of the cold war were aggression towards the modern Russian state is ridiculous.
nuclear missiles in Turkey to provoke the Cuban missile crisis
Except that was before disarmament? Which the US and USSR (and now Russia and many others) signed on to. Trying to say that 50yo actions taken at the height of the cold war justify Russia's modern actions is outright horseshit.
Trying to say that 50yo actions taken at the height of the cold war justify Russia’s modern actions is outright horseshit.
Not what I said. I'm saying Russians remember feeling threatened by the combined force of NATO and Ukraine trying to join provoked the invasion.
Why did all those states want to join NATO? Might it have something to do with the continued occupation of Moldova, the invasion of Georgia, and their experience they had while being Russian vassals, being subjects to deportations and worse? Ever talked to an Estonian?
Wanna talk about nukes in Kaliningrad and Belarus? Wanna talk about the Budapest memorandum? Wanna talk about China's nuclear guarantees to Ukraine and wonder why Russia is only making nuclear threats against NATO, but not Ukraine?
Ask NATO, they’re the aggressors that provoked this conflict. They expanded around Russia
The difference between NATO expansion and Russia's expansion:
NATO expands by having democracies decide to join. Note for this to happen, the countries in question must want to join. If you insist, you can blame NATO for accepting these applications.
Russia expands by rolling in with tanks, killing people and committing war crimes. Exactly the reason why all those countries want to join NATO, to have some protection from that bully.
But sure, the defensive alliance is the actual aggressor, not the country starting invasions. /s
I love me some mental gymnastics just as much as everyone else, but for a minute lets agree for some reason Putin has a reason to be worried about "NATO expansionism"… didnt he e already have the upper hand circa 2014 and Crimea? Was he feeling just as threatened? Somehow even after mobilizing, Europe was still energy dependant, the US was about as friendly with Russia in a long time during the trump presidency, I've had the impression that much remained neutral before the full scale invasion aside from trade quarrels, nobody was talking about arming Ukraine in some sort of cold war era missile crisis. Which I would certainly hope the change from 3 day "special operation " into this fucking shitshow should tell you all you need: it is about the land. And if you're wanting the former Soviet Union coming back to its glory through force, just say it.
No u
Nuh uh
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The ministry shot back after the State Department issued a striking report this week in which it accused the Chinese government of expanding efforts to control information and to disseminate propaganda and disinformation that promotes “digital authoritarianism” in China and around the world.
The US report, issued by the Global Engagement Center on Thursday, alleged that China spends billions of dollars a year on foreign information manipulation and warned that Chinese leader Xi Jinping had “significantly expanded” efforts to “shape the global information environment.”
It also underlined US concerns about China as a main military competitor and key rival in the battle over ideas and global disinformation.
“The relevant center of the US State Department which concocted the report is engaged in propaganda and infiltration in the name of ‘global engagement’ – it is a source of disinformation and the command center of ‘perception warfare’,” the ministry said on Saturday.
Referring to wars in Iraq and Syria as well as US reports alleging human rights abuses in China’s Xinjiang as examples, the ministry claimed that the US is “an ‘empire of lies’ through and through.”
“No matter how the US tries to pin the label of ‘disinformation’ on other countries, more and more people in the world have already seen through the US’s ugly attempt to perpetuate its supremacy by weaving lies into ‘emperor’s new clothes’ and smearing others,” the ministry said.
The original article contains 263 words, the summary contains 232 words. Saved 12%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
This is the best summary I could come up with:
US says China is spewing disinformation.
"No u" Says China.
The original article contains 263 words, the summary contains 10 words. Saved 96%. I'm a regular guy and I'm kinda just kidding!
Good guy!
I feel like we could all save a lot of money on diplomats and ministers by just getting a bunch of toddlers to shout "no u" at each other until the end of time.
I feel like this would be easier to settle if the report came with specific examples of narratives originating from Chinese troll farms with metadata supporting their general origin.
Shit even pegging it to tankies known to be sympathetic to the CCP would probably be sufficient
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US does the same thing, they just use Israel as a proxy.
He jas a point
It is so funny that US does propaganda like this, because there is so much shit happening in and because of countries like China, Russia and North Korea. Why doesn't US talk about the genocide? Why doesn't US talk about public executions (oh wait I know the answer to this one), why doesn't US talk about concentration camps (oh I know this one too), why the duck does US have to have shitty disinformation propaganda like North Korea forcing specific haircuts instead. There is so much shit happening because in these corrupt areas, and lies about haircuts is the thing they want to focus on.
I've always found it hilarious when people try to point at a person's shitty past as evidence to say their own actions are somehow okay or not that bad.
Has the US committed genocide on a national scale? Ask the native Americans who are ALLOWED to stay on broken down, often desolate reservations, and the literal millions of Buffalo slaughtered for the sole purpose of taking away their food supply to starve them out.
But that doesn't for a second excuse other countries doing similar things. We know how fucked up that is, we're not the same country we were 150 years ago. We're not even the same country we were 15 years ago.
I know YOU aren't saying the US can't talk about things like that, but it's often seen "but WHAT ABOUT blah blah blah" and your comment reminded me of it. You're probably right though, a lot of people in the US don't like talking about those things, and REALLY don't like it when you point out their own country has done many of the things we supposedly fight against. Hopefully it's been a long time since those things happen, but all too often you see it happening in some small way still today.
Everyone fucked up is my motto.
I really believe both can play the same game. Both the western and the east block can do propaganda.
US/ CIA was the… mastermind of many collapses of communist government during the cold war. I'm Chinese Indonesian and we are definitely one of victims of such acts.
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@goldenlocks @MicroWave
Zelensky is clearly not the only one to decide here, this is not russia, so keep your insults for yourself
when do we go to war with eurasia?
This might help someone.
Dear, thank you for read this one. Understand we American make more lie for pleasure and entertaining. Not chinese lie. China always with great truth.
Make Glory for America Again, fellow american!
Brooo 💀
This has to be a joke. I'm in stitches LMAO
"fellow American!" 🤣 pleeeaase
I take it English is a second language for you, comrad.
there was a post on reddit over the weekend around a current political issue (upcoming referendum vote) on a clearly photoshopped/stock image of ballot paper, but all the 'No' voter comments were filled with commentary on the users handwriting being 'childish', followed by heaps of upvotes. overseas trolls exposed so blatently easily they couldnt tell what was a joke and what wasnt, despite the polls indicating 'no' is ahead, really made it obvious how the overwhelming position online is 'no' is driven in a great bulk by overseas influence (hi russia/china)
The US would never dream of trying to "shape the global information environment". Right guys ?
Gettin real sick of the forum sliding into "but America bad too" every time there's a post about China doing shady shit on here.
EDIT: Two days after making this comment I'm still getting replies from Chinese propaganda trolls lol. Making it easy to add to my block list I guess.
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Bad propaganda troll
I mean, it's relevant to the article. It's not "but America" when "US" is the beginning of the headline… ?? 🤨
I'm not saying that the US State Dept report is false, but it also absolutely would not be the first time the state department has put out a false report. And they intentionally release reports - true or false - in a concerted effort to shape information and public opinion.
America absolutely spends countless taxpayer dollars on propaganda, and CNN, which is part of a multi-billion-dollar corporation that serves the interests of shareholders, advertisers, and lawmakers is absolutely part of that propaganda machine.
Again, not saying China is the good guy or that we should take their word here. But the US also isn't the good guy, and I think we should take State Dept. press releases with a grain of salt.
The comment you replied to was perfectly relevant and accurate, and was just someone making a quip about US propaganda efforts.
But apparently a Canadian knows better, so keep telling us about how US propaganda isn't relevant in world politics, thanks.
Cool.
I'm getting sick of idiots chastising China for what the US does.
Guess we both have to deal with it, huh?
But you don't get sick of the endless "China bad" articles, huh?
Lol endless? I maybe see a few posts a week about China while the majority of my feed is American politics and American tech ragebait articles. And I never see people like you on those posts saying "wEll wHaT aBoUt ChInA!!1!".
Probably because the American political articles are highly specific about American issues (e.g. abortion, debt ceiling, guns, etc). Meanwhile articles like these are all about bashing China for doing what the US does even harder.
No, china is endlessly bad. If you think otherwise youre dumb and should just move to a tofudreg highrise in china.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_condominium_collapse
"It's only bad when china does it." - you
It happened once somewhere else, so it's not a problem that its a real problem in china - you
I never said it wasn't a problem in China.
It's a problem anywhere it happens, that's where you and I diverge.
Hence my original point of: "It's only bad when China does it" -you
No, it's bad and a Chinathing because in China it is common enough to have it's own neologism.
It is common. It is widespread. It is being censored by the CCP.The US doesnt ban articles talking about highrises collapsing because of corruption.
Hilarious. I joined lemmy because of the thousands of anti China posts all over reddit. So obviously state department influenced.
And I'm guessing you joined lemmy.world because hexbear kept getting defederated? Go back there
What is hexbear? I've seen it mentioned but nice try assuming about me. You made an ass out of yourself.
Haha I made an ass of myself? K
Yeah, you did.
That's what happens when you assume. I'm new here I don't know what hexbear is, I googled it and it's another instance? Sure I'll go check it out I guess
🤡
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The people are split on your comment… Have fun watching CNN uncritically.
It's absurd. The article is literally about US and Chinese propaganda, and a comment making a quip about US propaganda gets downvoted and called irrelevant.
Yuuup, nobody sipping propaganda here. And get called a tankie for wanting more rational thought and actual discussion than "China bad".
Unfortunately those rats have set up base here too. If it's one thing the US is good at, it's at setting up bases everywhere.
Yeah I believe it. It's nice they can't ban me though. r/worldnews banned me seconds after I pointed out the top three articles of the day were from Radio Free Asia.
Of course not! America is democratic and free, see, it's written in this here Constitution so it must be true.
The US has found a really good dog whistle for "opinions and facts I disagree with." Everything is disinformation! Some of it is Democrat disinformation ("fake news"), some of it is Republican disinformation ("wrong"), and some of it is foreign disinformation ("makes other country look good and America look bad"). Welcome to the state of modern American journalism, I guess.
For what it's worth, China doesn't really need to spend billions of dollars on disinformation abroad because (1) The Great Firewall exists (so foreign disinformation has no domestic impact), (2) China has almost always adopted the "actions speak louder than words" strategy that better aligns with Chinese culture, and (3) China has also taken that view on foreign policy in that it uses the actions of other countries to determine their positions rather than their stated views.
Frankly, a lot of people are applying Western views on Chinese culture without taking a step back and asking themselves WHY there's such a big gap between what they expect and reality.
disinformation has no domestic impact
Ow, my head.
A significant contributor to the deadliest man-made disaster in the history of mankind was domestic disinformation in China.
Edit: I misread the comment and didn't see the preceding word 'foreign'. In hindsight my original comment doesn't make sense given this context. I don't agree with OP's comment though. They seem to rely on the idea that, 'China is special and unique (unlike you troglodytes)', as an explanation for how the government behaves in international politics.
I think a different poster explained the CCP's sophisticated methodology better: "no u".
They were clearly referring to online foreign disinformation, not domestic disinformation.
Yeah, my bad. It's clear I got stuck on that one point.
Precisely. Everyone has domestic disinformation, but it's a domestic issue.
That has no relation to the issue of foreign disinformation.
The only reason why they would block "foreign disinformation" is absolutely not so that they don't need to spread misinformation themselves. It's so that their disinformation has no competition.
Again, that's a domestic issue and not a foreign one.
Half the article was about domestic…
This is the main source used for the article.
The US report, issued by the Global Engagement Center on Thursday, alleged that China spends billions of dollars a year on foreign information manipulation and warned that Chinese leader Xi Jinping had “significantly expanded” efforts to “shape the global information environment.”
Hideo Kojima was right.
He predicted all of this in MGS2.
"Nobodies ever invalidated, but nobody is ever right either." Referring to how you can pick and choose what you want to believe and find no shortage of information on the internet to support or debunk it.
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