As a Finn I say this is fine. Every military resource that is tied down and not raping and destroying Ukraine is net positive.

  • zeppo@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    147
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Having to constantly communicate in abusive opposite-world ideas must be tiring. The notion that NATO is out to invade Russia or something is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve heard.

    • naught@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      110
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      For real… like Mr. Putin sir, we don’t want Russia. In fact, I must insist that you keep it

    • Justin@lemmy.jlh.name
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      30
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      I’ve heard arguments from sarcasmitron on YouTube that Putin actually believes his own lies. Putin is terrified that the CIA actually caused color revolutions in the 2000’s and 2010’s, and after the pro-constitution/anti-election-fraud protests in Russia in 2011, he’s been fighting against “the shadowy hand of the gay nazi west” ever since.

      • zeppo@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        37
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Seems like it would happen naturally after a while. He speaks basically exactly like US Republicans and I think a lot of them actually believe their insane BS.

        • zcd@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          25
          ·
          1 year ago

          Not surprising that he literally works Republicans like sock puppets

          • zeppo@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            18
            ·
            1 year ago

            He tells them what to say where it concerns Russia, but they naturally have the same sort of lying, victim blaming, playing a victim and opposite-world tendencies.

            • JJROKCZ@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Because they’re all rich, white, Christians. That group hates progress around the world and says the same things globally.

      • oce 🐆@jlai.lu
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        I find that less believable than the usual dictator playbook that uses foreign scapegoats to create a diversion from internal issues and justify authoritarianism.

        • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          1 year ago

          Well true but we could always just get more from overthrowing some middle eastern government. Hey remember when Syria wasn’t hell on earth? Take that Syria, bet you will let John Kerry have his pipeline next time.

    • Hasuris@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      1 year ago

      It’s simple. Us vs them. Not complicated like the 3D-chess he used to play in world politics.

      • 520@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        12
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        More specifically, it’s not for us. It’s for the people in Russia (who have no opposing viewpoints to hear) and the… special kind of individuals down at Lemmygrad (I don’t have any sort of excuse for them)

    • lad@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      It’s interesting how this might become a self-fulfilling prophecy if Russia attacks Finland

      • zeppo@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        That’s basically why Putin has been whining about this. He wants to be able to invade neighboring countries without having to deal with the US, EU and NATO.

  • Mister Neon@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    147
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    1 year ago

    As an American I’m waiting for Republicans to start randomly saying anti-Finnish opinions. My bet is in about a week.

    • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      29
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      It will take a while, you can’t expect christ-- sorry Republicans to know the basic geography of a place that was one of the most discussed areas in terms of Cold War policy for decades.

      Fox news sometime in a month will have some blonde or angry Irish background guy looking like a confused dog saying how the PM there went to a party.

    • GraniteM@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      Cornelius Hawthorne: You’ve got a wide brow. What are you, Scandinavian?

      Britta: Yeah, Swedish!

      Cornelius Hawthorne: spits Swedish dogs. Your blood is tainted by generations of race-mixing with Laplanders, you’re basically Finns.

  • Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    79
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    >Be Putin
    >Announce NATO expansion is no threat
    >Pull most troops from the Finnish border, because holy fuck, Ukraine has turned the entire army you had at the start into sunflower fertalizer
    >Have all the units you pulled from the Finnish border incur astronomical losses, because you want to present any win at the next election
    >Declare Finland a threat again
    >Move the broken units back up to the border
    >Profit

      • Crowfiend@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        50
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        His greatest political opponent just “went missing” (from the prison he was being held in) and “nobody knows where he is now.” Russians have been watching their population get ground into meat by what he originally called “a military exercise” that’s been going on over six times the time estimate that he set, and he’s actively making it so nobody can leave Russia without smuggling themselves out.

        He wouldn’t still hold office if he was playing fairly, so yes, he is that weak domestically. Get fucked, Vladolf Putler.

        • Fades@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          15
          ·
          1 year ago

          Don’t forget the oligarchs can no longer live the lives they did. Obviously they are complicit with the war but that doesn’t change the fact that there are those that would turn against him if the right opportunity presented itself

        • dlok@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Have the days of it being illegal to call it anything but a special military operation in Russia ended?

    • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      1 year ago

      I don’t think they even bother with elections. Russia is dictatorship not a democracy

  • Skkorm@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    58
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Have fun with that. This isn’t WW2. The Finnish military is far from large, but they are a specialized group with with a lot of national pride, and Russia currently has a hesitant conscript force with no emotional tie to the cause.

    • YoorWeb@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      32
      arrow-down
      14
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Finland was first created some time during the Cold War between Russia and the West.

      Japan-Soviet relations had always been shaky at best, but also incredibly secretive. Even as early as 1925 Japan and the Soviet Union had secret deals with each other regarding fishing rights between the two countries, with the Soviet Union giving up much of it’s fishing rights to Japan with seemingly no explanation as to why.

      These secretive treaties and alliances continued right up until just before the fall of the Soviet Union, Gorbachev made trips to Japan months before the fall of the Soviet Union stating the entire time how the relations between them were improving, even when Soviet relations with the rest of the world were worsening.

      In fact the entire past 100 years of Japanese-Russian relations bring up many unanswered questioned.

      Why at the height of WW2, were the battles between these two countries minimal despite being on opposing sides?

      Why did Japan sign a peace treaty with Russia in 1941, just months before their allies, Germany, went to war with Russia?

      Why were relations between Japan and Russia always good throughout the Cold War, despite the major geopolitical differences between the countries, and close geographical positions that you think would cause tensions?

      The answer is simple, they shared a common secret. A common asset that worked in both of their favours. And that asset was Finland.

      It’s unclear when Finland was first thought up, some say it was during the Cold War, and others say it was as far back as the 1920’s, but the necessity of Finland is quite simple.

      Japan can fish in the region of ocean between Sweden and Russia without worry for environmental repercussions, after all, nobody’s going to expect fishing regulations to be broken in a place where everyone thinks there’s a landmass will they? And in return Russia get a percentage of the fish to distribute amongst their populace.

      It’s a simple case of fishing the Finnish Sea, transporting it across Russia, (that was the real reason for the construction of the Trans-Siberian railway by the way), and then shipping it from the Eastern Russian coast to Japan under the disguise of ‘Nokia’ products.

      This is why Nokia is the largest ‘Finnish’ company, and it is also why Japan is the largest importer of Nokia products, despite the fact that very few people own Nokia phones in the country.

      There are clearly some unanswered questions to this conspiracy that I’ll try and address below.

      1- What about Finnish people? Are they all in on the conspiracy?

      A. No. People from Finland genuinely believe they’re from Finland. In reality they are from small towns on either the Eastern part of Sweden, the Western part of Russia, or the Northern part of Estonia.

      2- What about all of Finland’s other exports other than Nokia?

      A. Finland’s three biggest, and three most well known areas of industry are Oil, Tech, and Software. The oil is gathered in offshore platforms where the rest of us believe the landmass of Finland is, (again the Japanese get to avoid rigging regulations in this respect), the Tech companies have already been explained above with the Nokia post, and Software companies can easily redirect their IP Address through the Finnish sea. As for other Finnish exports, well, claiming Santa comes from your country isn’t a viable way to get people to believe in it.

      3- What about Helsinki? That is an enormous city on the world stage.

      A. Helsinki is located in Eastern Sweden. It’s not like the people flying there would notice.

      4- What about everywhere else in Finland? There’s a lot to it and it couldn’t all be made up.

      A. 99% of Finland is forest. A lot of it doesn’t need to be accounted for when addressing Finnish geography.

      5- Why do other countries go along with it?

      A. At first it was a sign of goodwill between Western Countries and the Soviet Union. A bargaining chip that could be played. But Finland has since evolved to something much more. An idealistic placeholder for what countries should aspire to. No real country could so consistently place first in Education, Healthcare, Gender Equality, Literacy Rates, National Stability, The least corrupt government in the world, Freedom of the press. It’s a concept for countries and people to aspire to. But that’s where the problems about Finland’s existence is disputed. no country in the world can possibly be that good.

      6- Why the name Finland?

      A. The country was originally made for fishing. What do fish have? Fins. Thus Finland.

      7- What about the Finnish language?

      A. Look up the similarities between Japanese and Finnish. It may surprise you how similar they are. Which is weird considering the vast distances between them.

      8- I’m Finnish and your attack on my people and culture is insulting.

      A. I’m not insulting Finnish people or culture. I don’t even deny that there is Finnish culture. When you have a collective of a few million people identifying as Finnish then of course a culture will be built around it. I’m simply saying that that the landmass of Finland isn’t actually there. It doesn’t mean there can’t be a culture or identity of being Finnish however.

      9- This is an enormous conspiracy to keep secret, how could nobody else of realized it?

      A. Other people have realized it. But imagine the ridiculousness of the statement ‘I don’t believe Finland exists’. Even if we did have undeniable proof of something put in front of us we would still hold the opinion that most of our friends, family, and acquaintances hold to not disrupt social convention. It’s part of the human condition.

      10- What about GPS and Satellite Images?

      A. It’s manipulated and forged. In the parts of Estonia, Sweden, and Russia that are allocated as ‘Finnish zones’ the GPS locations are changed to match that of Finland. Satellite images are forged. This is how that part of the world really looks.

    • BleatingZombie@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      1 year ago

      I could be wrong, but I think I also heard that Finland has (one of?) the largest artillery forces and really tough land to traverse on the border of Russia

  • Lord Wiggle@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    50
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Finland is NATO. He’ll NEVER invade Finland. Have fun dividing up your oh so great, properly trained and well equipped army haha! Not like he’ll need the troops in Ukraine, that war is going as smooth AF.

    • ghen@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      15
      ·
      1 year ago

      I feel like he’s doing this just to threaten the troops on the front line with somewhere colder

      • Lord Wiggle@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        11
        ·
        1 year ago

        Loads of forest up north. I’d prefer a camp fire over gunfire. Just make sure to bring your own axe.

        • etuomaala@sopuli.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          11
          ·
          1 year ago

          Finns camp in such conditions voluntarily. Russians probably do too, lol. In fact, many Russians in that particular area of Russia are a lot more like Finns than they are like Russians. In fact, they are being repressed, and their language and culture is being systematically erased. If we are playing by Russian rules, this means Finland just has to step in, to uphold the human rights of the Finnic peoples living in this area.

          • Lord Wiggle@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            I get your point. However, within a military it’s not like you’re stationed where you are originally from. So, most military left right now are the minorities from the east, or at least, they are drafted and sent to the front an mass. Except maybe for the officers not going to the front. But then again, they aren’t stationed where they are from, but where the regime requires them to be. I bet the minorities living in Russia close to Finland won’t feel much support for the regime, unless they too are too much brainwashed by the propaganda. But in general, the minorities often prefer to separate from Russia completely.

          • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            I’ve been making the same argument about the Han population of the Vladivostok Oblast for a while now. Xi actually has a lot to gain there, and no one outside of Russia would bat an eye.

            • etuomaala@sopuli.xyz
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              11 months ago

              etuomaala

              Wow, I can’t believe you’re making me root for a Chinese invasion of Vladivostok. You know what though? At this point, fuck it. Go right ahead, Xi.

          • Aux@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Karelia is the region of Russia close to Finland. And these people are technically Karelians (and I’m ethnically part Karelian as my father is Karelian). Karelian historically forcefully were assimilated either into what is Finland or Russian Federation today. Karelian culture is near extinct.

    • QaspR@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      We all better pray you’re right. If he does end up trying to invade Finland, it’ll be a global f*ckup

          • babboa@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            They’ve been held at bay for over a year by a smaller army with at best 20+ year old “B stock” conventional munitions often Jerry rigged to give half the capabilities they have when used as intended. Russia is a paper tiger who would get the Iraq revolutionary guards treatment inside 3 weeks if they start shit against the finns. And nobody outside Putin himself is suicidal enough to start throwing nukes.

            • nixcamic@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              You’re assuming Russia is going to be a rational actor, and that there are enough checks and balances to keep Putin from using nukes.

              • babboa@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                What is this, non credible defense? If you believe that, then nothing matters and all options are on the table including preemptive action, because you either assume that MAD is enough to stave off that stupidity or you dont. But…this is all bullshit propaganda and saber rattling so who really cares.

          • EatATaco@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            The claim is that it would be a global fuck up, maybe implying that it wouldn’t be limited to Russia/nato. Not that this wouldn’t be messy in and of itself, if Russia were to invade, I suspect they would be left out on their own by everyone else. They’re already struggling with Ukraine. I doubt anyone is going to want to step up and help them against NATO. They would probably lose a lot of the external but indirect support they are getting right now because countries would be hesitant to support a country against the us.

            If it’s just “war is bad” then yeah, kind of a duh statement.

            • nixcamic@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              1 year ago

              Hopefully everybody else would be sensible and nobody would take Russia’s side. Hopefully Russia wouldn’t randomly nuke other countries in their death throes.

              But even if both of those things turn out fine the economic fallout (and other kinds of fallout if it goes nuclear) will be a global problem.

          • frezik@midwest.social
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            The idea is to set the strategic position such that your opponent knows that any war would be a failure, and therefore they never try it at all. Finland joining NATO is pretty much that.

            This is a dangerous assumption when it comes to nukes, though. Not because it doesn’t work on its own, but because small mistakes have disastrous consequences for the entire planet. Works better for conventional warfare.

  • Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    49
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    My perspective on war is so corrupted, at this point.

    At one hand I want peace in Europe but on the other Hand I know Russia won’t stop until they are beaten so getting NATO involved might end this conflict faster.

    • doctorcrimson@lemmy.today
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      33
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      1 year ago

      I’ve wanted to fight Russia since they annexed Crimea. I knew it wouldn’t end there, and I was proven right. If they manage to obtain the natural resources of Ukraine then it will just keep escalating. The thing is, though, Russia has lost so many troops that they could easily be swept, right now. Now has never been a better time for either the EU or NATO to force Russia into demilitarization and reparations, as well as putting more economic pressure on the Chinese Dictatorship.

      One thing I don’t want, though, is a direct conflict with China. Those fuckers need to try fixing their own shit, first. Idk if that makes me strong against the weak and weak against the strong, but there is simply too much to lose for all sides in that sort of conflict, unlike the very weakened and destabilized Russia.

      • Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        21
        ·
        1 year ago

        I just feel hopeless tbh. It feels like diplomacy failed or was the wrong tool to begin with. You can’t argue with someone when their point is, “I want your land and you dead.” Every Compromise seems to be a loss at this situation. War is never good. But is not going to War even worse? I just don’t know anymore.

        • doctorcrimson@lemmy.today
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          1 year ago

          I’m in an even worse mental state over this, I see war with the violators as a clear logical conclusion with great benefit for future generations, but my state is going to sit on their asses and do nothing.

          • Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            I appreciate a careful consideration of going to War but now it seems to set a dangerous precedent. And no one really know what will happen if Russia attacks, let’s say Poland or one of the Baltic states. Is NATO really ready for nuclear War? Or will they just shy away because it’s too risky? Maybe I’m just pessimistic about the whole thing but how could you be not?

            • JeffKerman1999@sopuli.xyz
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              NATO will retaliate with nuclear weapons if it detects that nuclear weapons have been launched by the enemy. So the response would be conventional.

            • doctorcrimson@lemmy.today
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              Mutually Assured Destruction has been around for so long that nobody can possibly win in Nuclear War. In fact, Ukraine is a nation with Nuclear capacity, since they obtained 1,700+ Soviet Era nuclear weapons upon their independence in 1991. If Russia was going to pull the Nuclear War card they would have done so a long ass time ago.

              If Russia Attacks a much stronger nation than Ukraine like Finland, then we know exactly what will happen. The will be absolutely decimated in land and population to say the least. Modern Russia was always a paper tiger but it has become even weaker with its failed invasion.

      • cuntonabike@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        17
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        I’ve wanted to fight Russia since they annexed Crimea.

        I’m sure you’ll be the first to volunteer for the front lines then.

        • Supercritical@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Exactly. I hate when people lead off with that. It assumes their personal involvement in the war does anything other than make themselves feel less hopeless.

          • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            I understand their point from a geopolitical strategy perspective, but you always have to step back and ask yourself if you’d be willing to personally sign up. I would love to see Russia beaten and Putin ousted too, but I’m not willing to physically go do that, so I can’t exactly expect others to.

            Not to mention, I’m old enough to know that it would never go as planned. We’d end up in forever war that kills thousands and thousands of innocent people and puts warlords in charge instead of a clean coup and instant transition to peaceful democracy.

          • doctorcrimson@lemmy.today
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            6
            ·
            1 year ago

            Exactly for real, mate, I’d be digging those trenches. Didn’t expect that, did you? Thought you had the ultimate “Gotcha!” but no. I’m probably one of the few people in this comment section even fit to serve. Parrot more talking points, why not?

        • doctorcrimson@lemmy.today
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Goddamn right I would. Finally a cause worth fighting for, many Americans would view it as a dream come true.

        • doctorcrimson@lemmy.today
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          So does Ukraine, so why hasn’t Russia tried anything with them? Oh because there is no winning a Nuclear War, idiot.

          • ichbinjasokreativ@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            Russia isn’t threatened behind their own borders by Ukraine. If a NATO army were to invade Russia however, and Putin has his back against the wall, then I’m not sure he wouldn’t order that button to be pressed.

            • doctorcrimson@lemmy.today
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              I suppose he could threaten foreign nations who breach the borders, but it’s not accurate to say they aren’t currently threatened behind their own borders. Russia recently lost a major railway connecting to china to the war, and a few months ago there was a military coup that had Putin hiding in a bunker.

            • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Maybe. The issue is we don’t know. Are our missile defense systems able to take down that 1%? How reliably? What if that’s 5% instead?

              It’s all a game of probability, and all it takes is 1 missile to slip through. The only 0% chance is if no nukes are fired in the first place.

    • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      17
      ·
      1 year ago

      It’s really disappointing, isn’t it? Putin has been given every opportunity to stop the invasion or not even start it in the first place, and in ways that would help him save face. He’s rejected all of that and insists on only violence. The only response to that is returning the violence. Defending Ukraine is the most unquestionably morally correct military action I’ve seen in my life.

      It also brings up an interesting observation – to have a peaceful society, you have to be willing to violently defend it. If another party insists you give into their demands or they’ll get violent, you have to eventually oppose them. Otherwise, if you constantly submit to them in the name of peace, they’ll eventually take away your peace. Just like a tolerant society must reject intolerant views, a peaceful society must be willing to defend themselves in war.

    • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      16
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      If it weren’t for the existence of Russia’s massive fleet of nuclear weapons (which probably don’t actually work but it’s a hell of a risk) i’m sure NATO would have already got involved.

      The only reasonable way I can see this war ending is if the internal politics of Russia decide Putin is now too much of a problem and deal with him themselves. Then whoever takes charge backs out of Ukraine because it’s not a winnable conflict.

      I can’t see how anyone external can bring about an end to the conflict without risking massive escalation.

    • Sanyanov@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      Getting NATO directly involved will not end but will rather escalate the conflict.

      You can’t win a war, let alone against a nuclear state. This wouldn’t end well.

      • Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        9
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Is there any alternative? Ukraine can’t fight forever, and Russia won’t stop.

        Poland, Finland, Germany and others are also no nuclear States. Will the threat of nuclear retaliation and counter-attack from their allies really stop Russia, or will they just wait a couple of years and then try this shit again with other states? Or do everyone needs to gearup again? I have no Idea anymore.

        • Sanyanov@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          9
          ·
          1 year ago

          There is about 0 real solutions here, mostly just keeping war of attrition, which slowly drains Russian economy without reasonably allowing it to escalate. It is super bloody though, and it is not an option to choose willingly for either side.

          The only thing dumber than NATO doing direct strikes on Russia is Russia doing direct strikes on NATO. This is why Ukraine not joining NATO is such a big talking point in negotiations. If Ukraine goes NATO, Russia won’t be able to exert any military control over it anymore.

    • Zevlen@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      13
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      We all don’t need a war with China and we don’t need a war with Russia… We need to allow the Russian people and Chinese people to have a full democracy not a fake democracy, not a flawed democracy, but a full democracy ( like Ireland for example).

      We don’t need anymore killing or wars or any of it; really. We need to act like one earth and share resources and save the planet…

      Democracies tend to get along with other democracies… That’s the only reason I bring it up 😉

      • hydrospanner@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        We need to allow

        Oh crap, I guess we didn’t realize we were sitting on the remote with the button that prevented that!

        Honestly, I appreciate the “good vibes” tone here but it’s painfully naive in any practical sense.

        • Zevlen@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          Ye, “allow” / help.

          If Russia doesn’t have intervention and doesn’t get reformed by other countries it will ALWAYS go back to its corrupt/crooked ways. If it’s closed off like North Korea it will absolutely be even more extremist then now. And now is pretty fucking bad already.

          Think Japan and Germany… If they didn’t have the world get involved, they’d still be what they were in WW2.

          • lad@programming.dev
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            I’m not sure there is a way to “help” other than war, unfortunately

            Edit: which is a pretty crappy wayto help

      • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Right and how are we going to encourage that state of affairs? Because we tried asking really nicely and that didn’t work we tried sanctions and that didn’t work and the people don’t seem that interested in rising up themselves so what do we do?

        The options are war or to ignore it.

        • Zevlen@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Rising up themselves?

          They did and they also left the country. The ones who were able to anyways. The rest are brainwashed.

        • Zevlen@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          7
          ·
          1 year ago

          No one is ignoring anything and Russian army is at great fatigue…

          I don’t know what the solution is. But new conflicts and wars aren’t a solution at all. Just a step closer to WW/// OR global genocide by nuclear weapons= mass extinction of humans … And probably a big loss of knowledge; history; culture ETC.

          NTHX

          • Zevlen@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            Thanks for the downvotes. You all don’t think WW/// or nuclear war can happen/is possibilities?

  • acargitz@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    48
    ·
    1 year ago

    According to the Russian president, Finland was “dragged” into Nato.

    And who did the dragging Vlady?

    • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      1 year ago

      Exactly. Most didn’t want to join before Putin decided to invade Ukraine.

      Putin managed to do what decades and decades of pro-NATO propaganda couldn’t. It’s almost impressive.

  • no banana@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    50
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Oh you’re gonna move your last three tanks there? Good luck with that venture lmao

    • cygnus@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      19
      ·
      1 year ago

      They can make a big show of parking the T14s and Su-57s there knowing they won’t have to be put to use and no one will find out how shit they are.

    • cygnus@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      21
      ·
      1 year ago

      Russia will absolutely not invade Finland, even if it weren’t part of NATO and the EU.

      • RBG@discuss.tchncs.de
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        1 year ago

        Which is great news for the Russian soldiers who are going to be stationed there. Not going to the meat grinder instead.

        • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          That’s what I thought about the threats to invade Ukraine. It was such a stupid idea that surely someone as intelligent as Putin wouldn’t do it. But then he did. We can no longer assume he’ll act rationally.

          That doesn’t mean he is going to invade, but it does mean we need to take his threat seriously.

      • lurch (he/him)@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        You’re probably right, but that was exactly what people were commenting while russian troops were officially still just doing an exercise near the Ukrainian border. Putin is a madman and capable of unexpected crazy behaviour

        • cygnus@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          I suppose, but attacking NATO would be a whole other level of crazy. The biggest winner there would be Ukraine.

        • TheSanSabaSongbird@lemdro.id
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Well no actually. US intelligence was basically telling the entire world that the invasion was 100 percent going to happen. How do you not remember that?

          • lurch (he/him)@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            I don’t because idk who they told it to. Not me (I was just concerned it would happen by myself) and obviosly not the many people who were still commenting it would never happen while russian soldiers had already been reported crossing the Ukrainian border

        • cygnus@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Only once that I know of, and that was arguably a stalemate even though the USSR took part of Karelia. The Finns also learned their lesson there, and today (enormous network of bunkers, largest artillery force in Europe, F-35s on order, military reserve is 20% of the population) they are ready.

          Plus, of course, they are EU members (which has a mutual defense clause) and NATO (whose Article 5 is well-known)

      • Zevlen@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        War , death, poverty, murder, disease and rape are never a joke my friendly friend

  • theodewere@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    24
    ·
    1 year ago

    it’s just a sneaky little recruitment campaign… sign up now boys, we’re forming a nice leisurely unit to sit and watch the Finns do nothing… don’t worry, we won’t accidentally send you to die like worms in a ditch in Ukraine…

  • robocall@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    18
    ·
    1 year ago

    There’s too much mud and rain in Ukraine right now, so they need an excuse to pull back