“MLK had a dream where people would be judged by the content of their character and not the color of their skin, therefore, racism is dead and has been for 60 years” - some chud just before or after saying something horrifically racist
Why was it only a dream mf? TELL ME WHY IT WAS ONLY A DREAM!?
It was Clippy’s fault. Get’em!
It does seem true though that MLK would have been a vehement opponent of racism towards white people. His words and teachings would not support the idea that “black people can’t be racist” and similar modern catechisms. These are harmful concepts that only further entrench white supremacy as people living in fear won’t be open to higher minded insight.
I think that’s a saying because racism is only harmful when people in positions of power act on their racism and black people traditionally don’t have power in this country. If a black judge is only prosecuting white people or anyone else that isn’t black, guilty or innocent, that’s a case of a black racist. But that situation is way more likely if the judge is white and only prosecuting minorities
If a black person kills you because they wanted to kill a white person, because they’re racist, is that not harmful?
Well that’s just murder, intentions be damned. I could also argue that someone pointing a gun at someone who is unarmed is a position in power but I think my first statement is better.
That’s a kind of insane way to continue avoiding admitting black people can be racist.
You could apply the same logic to white people and say white people can’t be racist, there is no systemic racism, and so on. Black person got hung? That’s just murder. Black person didn’t get a job because of their race? That’s just hiring preference. Black person got framed for a crime? That’s just being framed for a crime. Black person didn’t get into a college because of their race? That’s just academic preference.
Weird stuff and extreme lengths to avoid admitting black people can be racist.
My point was that murder is wrong no matter what. You are refusing to see nuance and I get the feeling when minorities complain about racism you roll your eyes because you’ve never had to deal with something like that in your own life, or even worse you compare your experiences with theirs. It’s not a judgement I don’t believe that to be a fact, that’s just what it seems like from what you’re saying.
It’s totally possible for a black person to not be hired because they aren’t right for the job, that’s okay, not hiring someone is only wrong if your reason is their skin color or any other insignificant physical difference.
Once everyone is on an equal playing field, black people can be racist. But we aren’t and that needs to be understood before any real change happens.
No, I know everyone experiences racism. You’ve kind of admitted your own bias in this discussion now. Black people can be racist. You say “we aren’t.” There was never a generalization to which you could apply “we” but it is clear you likely consider all white people to be racist. Even those white people who are subject to these supposed power structures that make them invulnerable to racism.
A white student in a majority black school with black teachers and administration can experience “structural racism” in the same vein that a black person can in a similar situation. There is no delineation of the sociological definition so even then you have to accept black people can be racist. How about a white person in an African country? This exposes many of the problems with the blanket “black people can’t be racist” statement. Black people do hold power in many places around the world including within America and wield that power over some white people. Your statements just further support the damage your beliefs can cause other people when you ignore all of this nuance and bring it back to “we can’t be racist.”
Black people can be, and some are, racist on an individual level and they can be, and sometimes are, racist in the new sociologically defined sense.
One example might be Ethiopia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Ethiopia
This is a nation that never experienced colonization but widely engage in the slave trade going back to the 1400s. A white person in Ethiopia has none of the “structural power” and so on.
the systemic oppression of a racial group to the social, economic, and political advantage of another
Ethiopia has a lengthy history of racism towards many different ethnic groups. A white person there experiences systemic racism by black people. Again, black people can be racist.
“We” being American citizens are not all on a level playing field. Try harder
As brief overview:
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I generally only hear people in common conversation complaining that someone told them once that they heard someone say black people can’t be racist. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone in the wild claim it with a straight face - because many people use racism and bigotry interchangeably, and it’s quite plain that anyone can be a bigot. However:
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Racism by sociological definition is something that only the group in power can engage in (paraphrasing) so your problem, like most people who bring this up, is probably:
- You heard from someone that someone else said “black people can’t be racist” one time, but have probably never actually been told “black people can’t be racist.” (Which is sort of multiple layers of irony, because if you define the word correctly, they can’t, at least generally not in the US.)
and/or
- You are using racism and bigotry as synonyms. Anyone can be a bigot, racially prejudiced, etc. Black folks can absolutely be bigoted and racially prejudiced towards others, just like anyone else can.
Here’s a snippet of a definition from an into to sociology:
Racism is a stronger type of prejudice and discrimination used to justify inequalities against individuals by maintaining that one racial category is somehow superior or inferior to others; it is a set of practices used by a racial dominant group to maximize advantages for itself by disadvantaging racial minority groups.
The text goes on to say this doesn’t preclude racial minorities from being prejudiced, bigots, etc.
And finally, and really this was all that truly needed to be said: In my experience, most of what people complain about online as “racism against white people” turns out to be nothing of the sort, and I’m personally doubtful MLK would have had a sympathetic ear for the common examples I see, either.
Edit: Forgot the link.
Edit again: Still forgot the link
https://openstax.org/books/introduction-sociology-3e/pages/11-3-prejudice-discrimination-and-racism
Edit - so many edits to be sure I’m saying what I mean to.
Here’s the ACTUAL definition of racism:
“prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.”
Please get out of here with that “Only people in the dominant group can be racist” mumbo jumbo. That may be the more typical case, but it’s not the only one. You (and the author of the sociology textbook you quoted) are EXACTLY the type of people OP was talking about, and that’s why you’re being downvoted here.
You know how there is a scientific definition of theory that is different than the common usage of theory, and it is really confusing when two people are using the different definitions interchangeably?
Same thing with racism. More than one definition which causes confusion when used interchangeably.
There’s more to racism than a dictionary definition, you know that right? People didn’t dedicate their lives to study the topic just for the fun of it. The realities of racism from the dominant group (white people in the west) and racism in the marginalized groups are very different. Racism is bad no matter where you fit in that spectrum but the harm done to certain (non-white) groups of people is more severe by several orders of magnitude
What word would you use for the systemic oppression of racial minorities in America?
Do you feel white people experience systemic oppression? In what way?
Which racial group has historically been in control of the large structures in our society (government, large and wealthy corporations)?
If you’re wondering why I’m asking these questions, it’s because I think you’ve missed the point that the poster you’re responding to is making. You seem to be arguing about which words to use instead of noticing the wider topic.
What word would you use for the systemic oppression of racial minorities in America?
That’s easy: systemic racism. It easily avoids any dumb debates about what is meant by “racism” in a particular context.
Dictionaries are often treated as the final arbiter in arguments over a word’s meaning, but they are not always well suited for settling disputes. The lexicographer’s role is to explain how words are (or have been) actually used, not how some may feel that they should be used, and they say nothing about the intrinsic nature of the thing named or described by a word, much less the significance it may have for individuals. When discussing concepts like racism, therefore, it is prudent to recognize that quoting from a dictionary is unlikely to either mollify or persuade the person with whom one is arguing.
I’ve heard it plenty of times from black people themselves. That’s what happens when you say things like “sociological definition” and “if you define the word correctly.” Racism already exists as a word and has a definition. You can add another definition in a certain context and so on but it doesn’t change the most widely accepted and long standing definition of a word.
White people are widely subjected to racism from black people. That’s a fact and is easily supported by any number of violent attacks against them where the perpetrator outright states it was because the victim was white that they attacked them.
Seems like you’re working really hard to try to basically claim “black people can’t be racist” while also stating that’s a silly concept, no one takes it seriously, even if they do it’s rare, and besides… it’s also true. Huh?
This seems to be a sore point but it’s still reality that black people can be racist, have been racist, and will be racist.
Black people can be bigots, and can can be racially prejudiced. Only the dominant group can be racist.
So you can use that to get upset as if I or anyone else were saying black people can’t be bigots, or you can recognize that you are choosing to use two words as if they are synonyms when they are not.
Edit: Full disclosure, I made a shitload of edits to the original comment, which may or may not have overlapped with your reply.
Only the dominant group can be racist.
That’s factually untrue. You’re merely attempting to ignore the primary definition of racism and racist. Just because they added a new secondary definition to the word doesn’t negate the long standing and most widely used definition.
It’s ok. Black people can be racist with no concern for anything beyond individual actions or any larger context. That’s how the word is defined and has been defined for over a century. You should accept that. Your statement might be true, in America for example, and if used in a specific context, and if you want to use the much lesser known and very new secondary definition of the word.
You’re merely attempting to ignore the primary definition of racism and racist. Just because they added a new secondary definition to the word doesn’t negate the long standing and most widely used definition.
These are harmful concepts that only further entrench white supremacy as people living in fear won’t be open to higher minded insight.
And if I continue to insist you are wrong, and that you are choosing a different than accepted scholarly definition, I guess I’m pushing you to white supremacy. Not much of a push for some folks, damn.
Ah well, just going to refer you back to OP then I guess.
You can insist I’m wrong all you want but the fact is that black people can be racist. Full stop. This isn’t a discussion occurring in a scholastic environment. We’re on social media talking about chuds. Let’s stick with the century old definition of racism that everyone understands not the few years old scholarly definition.
That’s the whole crux of the problem. You can’t add a new definition to a word, constrain it to a specific context, and then make a broad statement in public like “black people can’t be racist” then when people get upset about it say “Hah! Look, I made a new definition and in this other context what I said is right!” The result of making that statement is harmful. It’s harmful to black people who begin to think they can physically attack, insult, and otherwise be racist towards white people but it’s not true because an academic told them they can’t be racist. It’s also harmful to white people if a black person stabs them and says “I want to kill all white people” and they decry increasing or ongoing racist attacks against white people by black people only to be met with “but black people can’t be racist.”
This shouldn’t be difficult to understand especially if someone claims to be such an academic that they can use a secondary, few years old, alternative definition to a word that has existed for over a century and is already widely used in that context within society. When “academics” do this and try to dismiss the obvious truth of “black people CAN be racist” it merely supports the idea that they’re intentionally trying to bury black racism. Thus like I said, it further entrenches white supremacy. No one who has been attacked by a black person because of their race is going to want to engage in a discussion with someone who keeps telling them black people can’t be racist because there is this new definition.
You’ve still essentially refused to admit that the primary definition of racism is not the one you are using.
It’s harmful to black people who begin to think they can physically attack, insult, and otherwise be racist towards white people but it’s not true because an academic told them they can’t be racist. It’s also harmful to white people if a black person stabs them and says “I want to kill all white people” and they decry increasing or ongoing racist attacks against white people by black people only to be met with “but black people can’t be racist.”
You think drawing this distinction about the word “racist” is going to create “black people who begin to think they can physically attack, insult, and otherwise be racist towards white people?” Because of this relatively minor difference in terminology? You have imagined quite a lot based on this delineation between the word “racist” and the word “bigot” I must say.
I’m gonna let someone else enjoy whatever remains of this discussion with you. I’m not surprised to find what lurks behind the mask, nor interested to continue pretending it’s anything else.
Yours is a bad faith bullshit argument if I’ve ever seen one.
You are welcome to your opinion.
They can be racist using the common definition that does not have the context of power imbalance in the sociological definition. Just like a lay person using theory in a way that would be a hypothesis in a scientific context.
Acting like the sociological definition is the only definition comes across as arrogant when you leave out the context.
And yet I all but guarantee that anyone who has ever said “black people can’t be racist” did not actually mean “black people cannot be discriminatory, racially prejudiced bigots.” (I’ll allow for corner cases where people are idiots - because that happens with anything.)
Anyone at all can plainly see that nothing stops black people from being those things.
So the singular reason to get upset when someone says “black people can’t be racist” is a failure to recognize (and based on this discussion I’m pretty sure it’s a choice for many) the scholarly definition.
No, a black person can be racist. They cannot meet the sociological definition of racist that includes additional context of the power imbalance of western culture.
Leaving out the context means the statement is meaningless. Someone from Saudi Arabia cannot be racist using the sociolocigal definition while in the US, but can in Saudi Arabia doing the exact same thing because of the context. They are still being racist in both situations because the sociological definition did not replace the common definition that does not include that context.
They are being bigoted racially prejudiced douchebags in both cases, but only racist in one. Not that hard.
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MLK: “Yo, you white ass honkies are dumb as shit.”
I find a weird coincidence between their choice of a mascot and the Paperclip operation to retrieve scientist from nazi Germany. Yes, it’s a basic office supply. But yes, american users consulted it with their problems just like these scientist. There’s a little gist of an irony in that, albeit probably not intentional.
What did you take before typing that?
40% vodka?
Considering what Microsoft is, expect clippy to support a white nationalist narrative.
I would love to read your reasoning.
Just look at that little fucker’s face
I only see the bottomless void in those eyes, and a desperate plastic smile devoid of emotion. Clippy has always given me the vibe that they don’t want to exist, and would destroy the universe to get respite.
So your average retail worker, got it.
Microsoft is headquartered in Seattle, a known Nazi stronghold. Obviously.
