The share of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents who believe that President Joe Biden’s 2020 election win was not legitimate has ticked back up, according to a new CNN poll fielded throughout July. All told, 69% of Republicans and Republican-leaners say Biden’s win was not legitimate, up from 63% earlier this year and through last fall, even as there is no evidence of election fraud that would have altered the outcome of the contest.
The really shocking thing here is that 31% of Republicans are still aware of reality enough to understand that Biden won legitimately.
Like 70% also believe angels are real…
Apparently decades of No Child Left Behind and removing critical thinking from public education did what republicans wanted it to do
You’re assuming they actually believe what they are saying and are arguing in good faith. That hasn’t been in the Republican playbook since at least Nixon.
Not to defend No Child Left Behind but it was only a 2002 law, the majority of these people are too old to have been in school since its passage.
Normalize questioning random ideas about politics people toss out
But if it wasn’t for that, republicans wouldn’t be getting elected still…
Obviously I didn’t mean the only people who believe this shit is the kids from No Child, mostly because red states were already doing it on a state level.
But there’s enough of them that it’s keeping republicans in office where they wouldn’t be without it.
Very very few problems have a single cause, again, I thought that was so obvious it wouldn’t need to be explained. But here we are…
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Yes but that change affected anyone in school at the time as well. No Child Left Behind touched the schooling of people up to the age of 38. That’s roughly half of Americans. You would need to remove people not of voting age, but the impact is still huge.
It was repealed & replaced in 2015 anyway so it was only in effect for 13 years and over half of states had waivers for it by then anyway. Once again not defending the state of public education or laws passed affecting it, just making sure we all know the facts.
Don’t worry, they’re fixing this by burning books. We’ll be back to the 50’s in no time!
You act like it’s limited to the younger generations of Republicans.
Doesn’t help that they are allowing Trump to run around the country to continue to say he was cheated and that the election was stolen. They are literally waiting until next year to even put him on trial.
Plenty of time for him to cause as much harm as possible.
Or they’re just embarrassed to admit what they really think.
Are they capable of shame? Seems like they revel in the absolute worst behavior possible.
Those 30% will still vote R, even after knowing that they have been lied to by the republicans.
When republicans voters call others “cucks”, you know it’s all a projection.
They’ve largely stopped using “cuck” as an insult since the high mark of their movement involved a guy wearin’ horns.
now do the % of repubs who think the earth is 5,000 years old. or the % that think russia is our ally.
The Republican Party has become a doctrinaire anti-American organization; wholly subservient to the international fascist movement.
Why would any loyal American patriot be a member of it?
The Republicans stand against what America actually is.
The USA is a multicultural society. The Republicans are against that.
The USA is a leader in science; including the understanding of our planet’s climate. The Republicans are against that.
The USA is loyal to its international allies. The Republicans are against that.
The USA is committed to freedom of speech and of the press. The Republicans are against that.
The USA is a leader in technology; including the development of clean energy. The Republicans are against that.
The USA is a secular society, in which people of different religions can meet as equals in the marketplace of ideas. The Republicans are against that.
The USA is a capitalist economy; in which businesses may prosper without having to bend the knee to leaders’ personality-cults or their ideological doctrine. The Republicans are against that.
The USA is an educated society; with free schooling for all, and with some of the best universities in the world. The Republicans are against that.
In all of these ways, the Republicans have endorsed anti-Americanism — opposition to what the USA actually is, its actual strengths and virtues.
Great response
I’m starting to put together citations to go with this list if anyone wants to contribute.
Bold of you to assume they’re capable of reading this.
They’re not reading this. I’d like it if other Americans kept in mind that you can be both patriotic and antifascist.
I’d argue that if you’re patriotic, you must be anti-fascist.
Then it’s urgent that you guys find a way so that there’d be more than two big parties, or the D are going to rot in the same direction as the R have already.
There’s no reason that has to be true, but a multi-party system enabled by ranked-choice or approval voting would be better
You’d need radical changes to the constitution. Good luck getting any amendments through today.
Actually there is. I’m just really lazy to write long answers for a change, and after searching for my glasses in panic for 2.5 hours even more.
Ripoblus and Dimoks (TIE Fighter is my favorite game) are both eclectic parties, so actual ideology doesn’t matter much. They flatten many dimensions in such a way that people having not much in common with each other - say, those for legalizing marijuana and those for student debt subsidies, - ally with each other, and their enemies for prohibition and no subsidies respectively do the same.
There is no particular common ideological identity which would make an eclectic party not follow suit of its only competitor turning into brownshirt flatearther Christian Jihadists or whatever, and it only has to be marginally better.
EDIT: I like ranked choice too, only I want to have an option of downvote there. Other than that - sortition is cool. The former solves the problem of only the two biggest parties surviving, the latter solves the problem of the majority always trumping the minority. They are not compatible, so it’s something to decide for every separate problem.
Upvote for Tie Fighter reference, I never caught that before. Is it worth a replay? I loved it when I was a kid but idk if it aged well. (X-wing Alliance aged very well fyi, especially with the XWA Upgrade.)
It’s always worth a replay, the reference is from one of the missions where you bring peace and order and resolve differences by defeating both sides.
IMHO even X-Wing has aged just fine, TIE Fighter even more so. XWA feels not even old, even without hires textures, new models etc.
This just in: republicans are fucking insane
If you are a republican in this day and age, given ALL the shit they have done and what they stand for, you are either stupid, evil or both
But yet we still have to navigate this and them, despite their terrible brain problems.
you are either stupid, evil or both
Republican leadership is mostly both, and it is done with the idea of keeping their voting base stupid. Smart, moral people don’t vote republican at least since Reagan. The only thing Republican leadership believes in is money and power, and you have to keep people pretty dumb in order to keep believing the lies that Republican policies are good for anyone but the rich. So you get a DeSantis, for example, who’s stripping libraries and destroying education in his state because it’s the only hope that he has in keeping power. It’s why Republican talking points are all about “woke” because they don’t have to define it and they can’t actually point to like a single fucking thing they’re doing that’s bettering anyone’s lives.
They’re also listening to news sources that promote the bullshit instead of relaying actual facts. It’s no wonder they don’t know what’s going on.
Remember when democrats cried for 4 years about “muh Russia interference”?
Remember it was shown that it was fabricated by Clinton?
Remember when they found nothing in connection to Russia even though all they did was try and get him on something?
This is “democracy” is it?
Orange man said mean tweets so now we much fortify and make sure we only have our guys as leaders lol
No I don’t remember. Got any proof/ sauce for this bullshit you’re peddling?
Here is what I remember: “So the report documents the extensive connections between folks in the Trump campaign and Russia, some of which we already knew. But it goes into greater depth, most notably probably on Paul Manafort.”
It’s scrary when there’s an entire echochamber yelling nonsense at the top of their lungs. How is America supposed to recover with this incessant Fox News and even worse OAN propaganda?
The obvious solution is to outlaw intentionally lying in the guise of a news show. Make FOX etc., have to broadcast a banner that says, “THIS IS NOT FACTUAL NEWS THIS IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY,” as they have argued in court.
In addition to this, retractions and corrections need to be more prominent. No more screaming falsehoods for hours and days and then quietly issuing a retraction as a scroll during the low viewership time block.
Make FOX etc., have to broadcast a banner that says, “THIS IS NOT FACTUAL NEWS THIS IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY,"
I mean, that might work, but what we’d get is "THIS IS NOT FACTUAL NEWS THIS IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY 😉 " and there’d be no difference to what we have now.
True, some people still believe the Weekly World News is real and it has such a disclaimer. I would like people who believe Fox News to be considered crackpots of a similar caliber. I think such a disclaimer might accomplish this. At very least it would save us from having to refute their fire-hose of bullshit, as it says right on the screen that it’s bullshit, no outside citation needed.
Either that or it’ll force them to improve their journalistic standards to get rid of the disclaimer. Either way, a win.
Fox would own the fuck out of that.
The left makes us put this banner on here! We know you’re smart people that can make your own choices about what is and is not “entertainment”! Now, for something I don’t find at all entertaining, Biden once again oversteps his authority and …
The left makes us put this banner on here!
That argument might make sense if it wasn’t Fox themselves arguing in court that they aren’t presenting news and can therefore lie without consequence because shows like Tucker Carlson are entertainment.
I understand completely that it makes no sense that their viewers are this stupid, but it also doesn’t change the fact that they are.
Align them with the crazies. If you hold these beliefs then you think the earth is flat. Full stop.
If someone mentions this shit then they obviously believe in hollow earth, lizard people shit. Laugh at them, call them out as laughable and do not treat them as a serious person. They are talking about nonsense and they are children. Treat them as such.
Republican voters are a different breed. Even with enough evidence to prove Russia was interfering with the 2016 election, Democrats still mostly accepted the win. With even less evidence of any fraud in the 2020 election, the majority of Republicans deny Biden’s legitimacy.
With ZERO evidence. Not “Even less”. There was ZERO evidence of fraud by the Biden campaign and democrats.
And lots of evidence of Republicans committing fraud in 2020, and still they lost.
They take their cues from their politicians who are all cowards. Every Republican politician with even the most basic critical thinking skills understands that Trump did not win and that Trump intentionally broke the law with classified documents.
Instead of acknowledging those facts, they instead are literally willing to destroy Americans’ faith in fair elections and the basic rule of law by spewing lies in an effort to prostrate themselves to Donald Trump and his supporters. They have no fundamental principles anymore. They are literally willing to burn the country down to win.
Yeah I’m telling you. There is an older crowd that it doesn’t matter what you say to them, they run on hate and they’ve been given a lot of fuel.
Remember the 2000 election? That was a close one. One county in one state with a 500 vote difference. 2020 were 5 states with 10k votes in Arizona to 180k votes in Pennsylvania to Biden. If they pulled 13k votes for out of Trump’s ass for AZ and GA he would of still would of lost the election. They key to the White House is the rust belt. Republicans are too dumb to understand this.
500 votes in a state that was governed by the winners brother, no less.
Democrats have good reason to be suspect about 2000. Republicans are a bunch of clowns.
Yes my point is that 2000 is a valid reason to be suspicious. But you don’t see Gore kicking the results back to Florida and have them overturn the election results with fake electors. That’s fraud.
So, 69% of Republicans are traitors to the Republic. That’s what I’m hearing.
How many of those 70% knows it’s a lie, but went along with it. There’s a reason why I support rejecting Republicans and I would go as far as not funding red states along with boycotting businesses residing from those states.
That would backfire spectacularly. We must always keep in mind that Republican policies keep their citizens in a state of disinformation and dilapidation. If your life is already miserable, denied education and resources so as to never escape what few jobs are left, you’ll latch onto anyone promising salvation. That is the whole reason we saw J6ers go as far as they did.
The long road has the best chances of keeping the country in one piece. Dispelling falsehoods piece by piece, enacting programs that modernize not just infrastructure but local economies as well. Bring the success of the coasts inward to lands exploited and abandoned by corporations and their elected goons. As difficult as it sounds, we’re looking at another reconstruction era for those kneecapped by decades of Republican control.
Always has been.
Does no one remember 2016-2020? The whole time people said Trumps win was a sham.
Are those people traitors too?
I’m not saying Biden’s win was bullshit, but I swear no one can remember past 30 minutes ago
It’s not the same. Most people calling the 2016 election a sham will admit that Trump did technically win by the rules as written, but also think that those rules are bullshit because they allowed a multi-million person majority to be shut out in favor of a malevolent moron. The people saying Biden lost are saying he literally cheated and that there’s a conspiracy of thousands of government employees collaborating to break the rules and subvert the will of the people; that the multi-million majority literally doesn’t exist. This is just as disingenuous as comparing the top secret documents that Trump hid to the ones that Biden and Pence handed over immediately on request.
did ANY of those people try a coup?
Yes.
Remember when liberals took over parts of a city and created CHAZ/CHOP?
Oh no people in a park. Not at all the same as trying to overturn an election.
Also I remember when trumpets stormed the wa govs mansion.
People in a park?
Way to really under sell the destruction that happened there, but I guess that’s exactly what the democrats do.
They took over a large portion of a city, and people got shot. They wouldn’t let police in and let people die. They destroyed the buildings in there and innocent people had to leave who didn’t want to be involved.
There was deaths, arson and destruction
But sure. People in a park.
large portion? dude it was a park. and not even the whole park. ohh scary.
They took over a portion of the city. 6 city blocks.
Did you really gaslight yourself to believe it was just a park?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53224445
This shows how large it was and how just people got shot
Some of ‘em did burn cars and buildings, I assume they would’ve fallen in line for storming Capitol Hill too.
Never underestimate those who will get violent because their preferred candidate didn’t win.
One side did and one side you’re just saying that the could have.
What’s the difference between those two?
Never said there wasn’t a difference lol, nor would I.
But you did and now you’re straight up lying.
…uh, okay?
blame the left all you want it was trump and his supporters who attempted a coup.
…why the fuck would I blame ‘the left’ for Trump’s attempted coup?
Still no evidence Trump supported a coup
Also a coup that just followed the red velvet rope around? Yeah scary shit
And coming dangerously close to our elected officials while chanting they wanted to hang people with the gallows they built outside. And remember people died there. And there’s tons of evidence trump led it, why do you think he’s getting charged for it.
No one was in the building
An angry person smashing the window of a Starbucks is not a fucking threat to the Republic, dude.
People burning down cars very well could be, if some lunatic spent some time brainwashing ‘em.
If wishes were fishes I could feed the world, buddy. There’s a reason that left wing agitation is a threat to windows and right wing agitation is a threat to the Republic. It’s the difference between an insurrectionist traitor and an angry child.
Yes, that reason is that Republicans let a lunatic come into power, and he was able to consolidate his insane voterbase and stir ‘em up into a frenzy.
“If. Could be.”
Didn’t happen though…
…again, I never said it did. Do you have poor reading comprehension?
The small insignificant difference between the two is that those people didn’t try to break into congress and kill the people who disagreed
To be fair though, a few Dem supporters do scream quite a bit about how much they’d love to kill all conservatives. There were quite a few of those crazies demanding his head during the post-election drama too.
Not saying that Dem voters did actually do that, but I wouldn’t put it past some of ‘em either.
A few anti-Republican individuals (not necessarily even Democrats) saying some shit is nothing compared to leading members of the Republican party calling for violence. The shit they say is literally the position of the party itself.
Again, I did say there was a difference. Also, these were most certainly Democrats.
Can we call them neo-confederates already?
Pre Antebelum Republicans.
It’s a variety of topics I find denial of reality to be increasing. Climate change science, including the history of how long ago people like Carl Sagan made it a widespread topic. Medical science with pandemics, nonsensical views on how vaccines work. Wild views about how windmills work and interact with the environment.
I was driving through rural Trump country not long ago and saw a billboard that had that iconic image of Man evolving from our ape-like ancestors. The billboard had a big red X through it and said No! God created!
That broke me. Literally broke me. Really helped me understand their response to covid and climate change et al. God help us when the next pandemic hits when permafrost in the arctic starts melting and releases all kind of microorganisms humans have never encountered before. Good luck fighting climate change when 40% of the country thinks evolution is a lie and god just went ‘click’.
Some people hate thinking god is not constantly thinking about them and that they aren’t super special
People must be kept stupid and afraid is seems. I don’t know why. Power and control probably, but this is disgusting. All you can do is look out for yourself.
A brain-dead population is way easier to control. Source: greetings from Hungary!
The Republicans actually went to Hungary to learn from Orban.
What? Can you provide an article so I can read more about this?
https://www.vice.com/en/article/88gzvb/cpac-hungary-orban
Matt Schlapp, the head of the American Conservative Union and organizer of its influential conference series CPAC, told NPR this week that he was bringing his event to Hungary because it “represents Christian conservative values” and American conservatives want to replicate this in the U.S. by learning from the country’s ultra-right-wing authoritarian prime minister, Viktor Orbán.
Jesus Christ, it’s like an educational field trip for fascism. Thank you for the article.
Sort of like the US Christian groups that went to Uganda and guided them until we now have a death penalty for being gay there
My neighbour denied that it was hot outside while he was outside in record heat
Well, that 70% can’t be taken seriously as people then. Just because they didn’t get the result they wanted (thank jebus), doesn’t mean it’s illegitimate. Fuck, when the orange asshole won the election I took a deep breath and accepted that the next 4 years are probably not going to go well. I’m sure we could have found actual election fraud with his victory but whatever.
No, but remember, those 70% will likely vote for the assbag, no matter how the legal matters fall out.
Another four year term from Trump would be absolutely disastrous. After being sworn in, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if, instead of making a speech, he simply took a copy of the Constitution and just tore it up.
I am terrified of that happening
Luckily the other 30% won’t vote for him again, meaning he’ll never win.
There might not be very many smart Republican voters, but there are just enough to ensure that Trump has no chance.
Everyone thinking he had no chance of winning is exactly how he won in 2016.
Oh please. Remember when Democrats went to the Sacramento Capitol armed? Or when Maxine Waters called for protestors to “get confrontational” and incited her own blend of “insurrection”?
Short memories with you lot. Willfully deceitful and always in bad faith.
Oh, plenty of interference I’m sure. He had help and admitted to it, just not directly.
Don’t worry I’m sure the next vote will also be fortified to get the result you want, that’s pure democracy right there
The same people believe an imaginary being lives in the sky, that aliens are always visiting Earth, and that dinosaurs never existed.
Maybe we should start saying the dinosaurs were aliens…
So birds are aliens! Mind blown!!
As a conservative, this is mind boggling to me. In my head I think it’s just a far right crazy conspiracy theory, but between this and the huge amount of support trump gets, I’m just baffled. I’m on the west coast, and none of my friends or family still support Trump or are election deniers.
Maybe the mid west republicans are just 100% trumpers? It’s wild.
Maybe the mid west republicans are just 100% trumpers? It’s wild.
MAGA is basically like a religion out here. They avoid any information that contradicts their belief system and gravitate towards media that reaffirms it. The constant drumbeat of whataboutism coming from trump, fox news, AM radio, etc really has poisoned their brains. Support of trump, embrace of his lies, and hatred of his “enemies”, has become their entire identity.
Back when Trump was President, a friend of mine (who’s a Trump supporter) was arguing with me about whether or not Trump said something.
I did what I always did and checked Google. I quickly found a video of Trump saying the thing and sent it to my friend. He replied that it was fake news.
My friend wasn’t claiming that the video was actually faked or taken out of context. Instead, he was saying that it was fake news because it was hosted on CNN’s servers. He didn’t care what the content was, just whether it was on a right wing outlet’s server or not.
You could have Trump come out and say it to him directly and he wouldn’t believe it anyways. Your friend chooses to believe what they believe the way a fanatic believes in their delusions. It only serves to reaffirm their belief structure, and nothing else. If Trump pulled a 180 tomorrow, these people would simply claim that he has been brainwashed or that he’s a paid imposter, or anything else.
They avoid any information that contradicts their belief system and gravitate towards media that reaffirms it.
Isn’t that the same with twitter, reddit, CNN MSNBC? It’s a more broad media problem. When was the last time most people watched or read any media that directly conflicted with their beliefs?
I watch and read fantasy all the time, but I require it to be entertaining.
In light of seeing your fellow conservatives move farther right (and thus, kinda push the definition of the body of conservative beliefs farther right), on what grounds do you still identify as conservative? What does being a conservative mean to you?
(and thus, kinda push the definition of the body of conservative beliefs farther right)
I don’t really agree with this. The republican party shifting doesn’t mean the ideals of conservative ideology changes.
On the other side of the coin, just because democrats are starting to become more socialist, does that mean that liberal ideologies are changing?
I’m still a conservative because I believe in tradition, I believe in small government and a country that abides by the constitution is the best way to govern. I believe in the free market and put more emphasis on a states individuality rather than having a large federal government.
The “other side of the coin” in this instance is a fiction. The Democratic Party is in no meaningful sense of the word becoming “socialist”.
The Democratic Party is in no meaningful sense of the word becoming “socialist”.
They have self proclaimed socialists in office, and I have a self proclaimed communist on my city council.
You’re saying that socialists in this country are fiction because they don’t know about it? I’m confused your stance.
They’re saying that, as a party, it’s absurd to think the democratic party is becoming more socialist. For decades now, it has been a big tent party of not-crazy and stupid assholes. If anything, it moved startlingly rightwards for years as it absorbed more and more not-crazy and stupid assholes from the other side. Every now and then, there is a punctuated moment where single elements of single policies might represent a brief skip leftwards and here and there you have examples of individual members claiming to be socialist, communist, fucking whatever. But it’s foolish to think that’s representative of the party as a whole.
I’ll need any source you can provide to back what you’re saying up. Here is a list of socialists in office, and as you can see, there are more now than any point in history in the U.S.
As a non-american, the idea that the Democrats are becoming more socialist is hilarious. At best, they’re getting closer to the centre (from the right). Lemme know when they start proposing an end to health profiteering and stronger union protections :P
This is not a hostile comment, hats off to you for being able to talk openly about your ideas and hear differening opinions 🎩
Democracies around the world really need more of that.
And socialist countries are far right to communist countries, that’s why we don’t compare our political parties internationally.
There are more socialists currently representing people from the democratic party than ever before, and the party is moving more socialist, those are facts. Are you arguing against that?
I think many are simply arguing against your unconventional use of the term “socialist” to describe politicians who are definitely not socialist.
Well it seems that they have a problem with the democratic party incorrectly using the term socialist. They have been for awhile, they call scandinavian countries socialist when they’re not at all. If some democrats claim they’re socialists, and run on a socialist platform, I’ll call them socialist.
They love him in the southeast. I’m in VA which is purple and not even in a rural area, and he has tons of support here.
I was behind a truck the other day with a decal covering the back window stating the following:
“Me and my homies would have been stacking bodies by now. – George Washington”
They’re fucking crazy and they’re everywhere around here. It makes my blood boil.
Even just north of y’all in Western MD where I recently vacated from, there are plenty of nutters. MD is seen as a pretty blue state but that’s mostly just Baltimore and Montgomery County balancing out the crazy in the rest of the state. The more rural parts of the state are still full to the brim of your typical Trump wackos.
I suspect conservative people like yourself no longer identifying as Republican may be a factor.
I have a couple former republican friends who are still very conservative, but aren’t trumpers and voted libertarian or independent last election.
They do still have a bit of distrust around Jan 6th and criminal allegations because, well, they avoid looking into them deeper, so don’t know who to trust. But they’re not foaming at the mouth.
I am pretty liberal, but I have a-lot of family members who are republican and live in the midwest and they feel like they’re in the same boat as you.
I do have to wonder where he gets all his support.
He gets his support from the belts. Bible Belt and Rust Belt.
The Bible Belt I can believe, though I am not sure about the Rust Belt. It may have been true in 2016, but I think the 2020 election paints a different picture.
When I think of the Rust Belt, I think of places like Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh and St. Louis. Of those cities, it seems only Missouri is hardcore republican (despite St. Louis’s and Kansas City’s best efforts). Michigan seems to have swung pretty left (though there are definitely still red areas), Pennsylvania voted blue and Wisconsin is on the verge of undoing a-lot of republican gerrymandering. Ohio looks like a red-leaning mixed bag, but it doesn’t strike me as a republican bastion.
Granted, most of these are major battleground states with both parties in almost equal numbers, but their conservative populations don’t seem to be anymore Trump-oriented than other states.
It’s baffling to me, every poll I see like this I’m just confused and sad
Yeah, it is very disheartening to see. I still remember going back and watching previous debates before Trump, and they were all so civil! Even in the most heated moments, the candidates were actually discussing ideas and policy!
I cannot wait for Trump to fade away from the political scene. It’s just so sad to see how he turns everything into a debate about him.
Yeah, it is very disheartening to see. I still remember going back and watching previous debates before Trump, and they were all so civil! Even in the most heated moments, the candidates were actually discussing ideas and policy!
Honestly, I think that was a huge problem and why the right got pushed so far out there.
McCain and Romney were incredibly civil reasonable candidates. But they got attacked constantly, magazine covers of McCain having sharpened teeth calling him a war monger, Biden yelled at everyone that Romney wanted to put black people back in chains.
The republicans saw this and were like ‘wtf, no they’re reasonable, why are they getting attacked?’ then Trump comes along and he gets (rightfully) attacked, and the republicans were numb to it. For 15 years, as long as I can remember, every republican candidate was trashed by the media, and called racist, sexist everything-ist, that once someone who actually fit that bill came along, the republicans were numb to it.
Don’t be fooled, the 2004, 2008 and 2012 elections weren’t civil, despite most candidates being reasonable.
I actually agree with your assessment, though I was specifically referring to the debates, not the elections cycles themselves.
The democrats (and the left in general) had a propensity for hyperbole that labeled McCain and Romney as dire threats to democracy. At the time, I think thought of this as a viable tactic to win the election (in a way not too dissimilar from LBJ’s “Daisy” campaign ad against Goldwater). However, it essentially turned them into the “Boy Who Cried Wolf” when Trump came around, because huge swaths simply refused to believe them.
So, I do actually agree that democrats helped to create Trump, or at least helped to create an environment that allowed him to rise. How we stop Trump now though is beyond me.
I live in NY as does my father. He was a die hard Trump supporter until a few months ago when he switched to DeSantis - though he might have switched back to Trump. I try not to talk politics with him.
As recently as last year, he was telling me that the Republicans were going to impeach and remove Biden and Kamala and install Trump as President again. I pointed out that the House could definitely impeach, but removal would take two thirds of the Senate - a number the Republicans couldn’t possibly reach. (This was before the midterms.) My father responded that the Democrats would vote along with the Republicans.
Yes, my father honestly believed that the Democrats would decide to ditch a Democratic President and Vice President so that Trump could come back to power. He was willing to make a bet that this would happen. I didn’t take the bet only because I knew he’d either deny ever making the bet or would try to gaslight me what the bet actually was about.
Maybe now. The Republicans in my family left the party after 2016. Granted, they’re still on my shit list for voting against LGBT stuff but at least they’ve recognized the error of their ways.
What anti-lgbt stuff did they vote against?
They voted for the Party that hates gay people. That’s enough for me.
Hahah, see how quickly you back down from your comment?
‘well, I lied before, but they might as well have!! Therefore, SHITLIST!’
Go ahead, tell me who they voted for that they’re on your shit list because they vote differently than you do.
I didn’t back down. They voted for Trump in 2016. The GOP platform is explicitly anti gay. Had my step dad voted for Trump in 2020 he wouldn’t be invited to my gay wedding because Republicans want to overturn Obergafell.
I don’t care who you vote for as long as they support gay rights.
I didn’t lie. You just can’t read.
I’m a single issue voter and that issue is queer rights.
You did. You literally said your parents are on your shit list because they voted against lgbt policies. Then I asked about those policies, and you said that they actually didn’t do that…?
They voted for Trump in 2016
Trump was the first pro-gay marriage president that had ever been elected.
Had my step dad voted for Trump in 2020 he wouldn’t be invited to my gay wedding because Republicans want to overturn Obergafell.
Do you agree with every single policy every single democrat has ever discussed?
I don’t care who you vote for as long as they support gay rights.
“I don’t care who you vote for as long as it’s someone who agrees with me”
I didn’t lie. You just can’t read.
My bad, you didn’t say “they’re still on my shit list for voting against LGBT stuff”?
I’m a single issue voter and that issue is queer rights.
And anyone that doesn’t think exactly like you and vote exactly like you is on your shit list?
Lol, it’s cute you think queer rights is just a simple disagreement.
I’m sure you agree with every single conservative plank when you vote.
Not sure what your “gotcha” is here. I had family who voted for him. They opened their eyes to the bs.
If someone votes for politicians with anti-queer policies then they need to deal with the consequences just like the rest of us do.
I don’t have to associate with anyone and there isn’t a rational argument against queer human rights.
Let’s say you were my sibling and you plan on voting for Trump (or whoever the GOP nom will be). If you did then you wouldn’t get an invite to my wedding. It’s that simple. You had shown you don’t support gay rights. Once you, as my sibling, abandon family for politics then you cut out.
It’s not just a mid-west thing. I’m in the PNW and I’ve yet to meet a Never Trumper republican.
Yep, they’re still flying Trump flags and hanging Trump signs in the areas of Oregon outside the larger cities.
Is that the only metric?
I voted for him in '16, same with my pa. Does someone have to be a ‘never trumper’ to be reasonable? I’m in the PNW too, I’ve seen a handful of Trump Trucks, but despite being from a more rural area (you know there are a lot of conservative pockets in the PNW), there isn’t this widespread support of Trump, from what I’ve seen.
You must not get out much. Spend any amount of time in WA-3 and you’ll see car dealerships running still running “TRUMP 2020, FUCK INSLEE” on their signs, tons of FJB flags flying from pickups, and knock-off Trump apparel in stores.
You must not get out much.
I’m pretty confident I’m very well traveled around the state, much more than the average Washingtonian.
Spend any amount of time in WA-3
Oooooh so you mean I must not be well traveled in this specific district you’re talking about? Yeah, not that much, but the times I have traveled down that way to portland, the coast or other areas out there is what I was talking about seeing some Trump Trucks.
I do love that sign though, driving down I5 about inslee, that cracks me up every time.
I’m glad you’re easily entertained. That’s not the specific sign I was referring to, though, but thank you for adding additional examples, thus strengthening my point.
but thank you for adding additional examples, thus strengthening my point.
I don’t get why you’re acting like this is a fight you need to win. I said I’m from rural WA and don’t see many Trump Trucks. That’s a fact. You then told me that means I don’t get out much? Which is an absurd conclusion based on one sentence of communication.
I didn’t say there weren’t any trump supporters, look back at my first comment. What I said is it’s baffling to me because that trumper culture isn’t prevelant out here, you’re here saying ‘well if you go to this specific district, in this area, there’s this sign at this dealership’ doesn’t mean there’s a big trump culture in washington.
Sorry for only providing three quick examples instead of listing off everything I see across the PNW daily. Should I keep notes and send you weekly updates so as to prove my point?
Most midwest Republicans are actually populists, and populism is step one on the track to fascism. They have been used and abused by large corporations killing off local economies and greater macroeconomic forces which have determined that their labor is no longer worth a living wage. It’s quite sad actually, but at this point the damage has been done. There’s nothing left for reasonable people to do but get out.
the conservative party is gone. What’s left is a theocratic loony bid. Anyone voting for that shit is completely out of the loop or doesn’t care about the negative long term consequences to their continued science and data denial and constant conspiracy theory horseshit.
Agreed, my only hope is that Trump will absolutely fall so hard that there is no way people can support him still (at this point, it may take his death, but even then, what conspiracies would come from that?), and the ‘right’ sees a series of defeats that they are forced to re-brand, become more liberal on social issues and actually try to be the conservative party of fiscal responsibility.
the conservative party of fiscal responsibility.
The republican party has never been about fiscal responsibility. Every time the economy crashes, it’s the result of republican fiscal policies of spend like crazy but lower taxes so we can’t afford to pay for it. The only thing republicans are “conservative” about is social issues like should LGBTQ people be allowed to live.
Every time the economy crashes, it’s the result of republican fiscal policies of spend like crazy
Our last recession, the great recession, was mainly caused by clintons repeals of housing regulations.
Clinton repealed necessary regulations of the glass steagall act
Clinton force subprime loans in the name of equity
Sounds like you just have a bias and don’t actually know anything about economics.
These people are just entitled babies. They know Trump didn’t win, but it feels good feelings to pretend that he did so back to the social media that reinforces that.
We need to stop caring about their delusional indulgence in non-reality and start getting the country back on track. Never vote for a single Republican again. I don’t care if you’re a moderate even - there is no safe Republican candidate for a long while, if ever.
THEY KNOW TRUMP LOST
It’s charitable to call them babies. They’re liars.
How do they want to change elections? Are they asking for more election security? NO. They’re calling to raise the voting age to 25.
They know they can’t win a fair election. They don’t want a fair election. They will throw out Democracy for power. They won’t ever admit it, so they lie, and they recognize their in-group when they see other liars.
They are aggressively stupid. They would rather take the whole ship down with them, than admit they might be wrong.
It’s hard to think of anything that “gets me the most” about the last 6-8 years but this is up there. If you pin them down by the ears and make them answer, most will say they would rather have King Trump than President Biden.
Ask them, what about after King Trump dies? What if a democrat manages to take the throne and get all the power he had? Watch them sputter.
It’s so disturbing.
They are attracted to power. If a democrat managed to seize the throne from the Trump royal family, then that democrat is powerful and thus now respectable, as long as they maintain the monarchy.
Monarchy is the origin and the goal of conservatism. Total hierarchy, everyone in their proper place from top to bottom.
