• Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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    7 months ago

    and the Democrats held a majority in congress for enough time to get a national right to an abortion into congress,

    At what point did pro-choice Democrats hold that majority?

    At what point could any of the previous Democratic presidents in the last 30 years have gotten a Supreme Court majority?

    You should meditate on that phrase and look at it in historical context.

    I gave you the context. The context was that it was said by a president who committed genocide and sat on his ass when it came to most civil rights issues.

    Weird that I brought those two things up and you don’t seem to believe the buck stopped with him on them.

    • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I think you are being intentionally obtuse. Like it or not, Biden is going to be held accountable for the outcomes of his time in office. You don’t seem to think they should be held accountable to that standard, but your opinion on this is basically irrelevant, because they will be. Its why they are losing this election and defending them in the way that you are is setting them up for failure. You seem to view the Democrats as victims of circumstance, but that if that’s the case, then why should any one vote for them?

      When you are a leader the buck stops with you. The phrase is over 200 years old and has been used in many contexts to describe the finality of responsibility, and how it inevitably lands on the shoulders of a figurehead like a President. You obviously have no appreciation for its significance or how leadership is ultimately responsible for the outcomes of their tenure. Your defense of the indefensible highlights how weak Joe Biden has been as a leader and ultimately weakens any argument for why he should be President again. Blaming Republicans or the SC or anything but Joe Biden for the outcomes of Joe Biden’s presidency is passing the on responsibility of leadership, and in spite of your desire that it be some other way, it just isn’t so.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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        7 months ago

        What he will be held accountable for and what he is able to achieve are two different things.

        And I notice you didn’t answer my question of when the Democrats had a pro-choice majority.

        • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          What he will be held accountable for and what he is able to achieve are two different things.

          Hes not going to be President is whats going to happen.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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            7 months ago

            Okay, that still doesn’t change the fact that he can’t achieve what he can’t achieve. He isn’t a dictator and he doesn’t have magic powers. If that will cost him the election, that really can’t be helped. You might as well blame his inability to time travel.

            Why are you evading my question?

            • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              You are obtuse and not worth the time of answering. You fail to understand real politic and misunderstand the functional role of a president. You live in a fantasy of how you wish things were instead of how they are. I’m ignoring the attempts you make to sideline the primary thrust of this conversation, which is : Is the President responsible for the outcomes of their tenure? I’m not interested in some non-sequitur sidebar conversation you seem interested in having, because you are barely worth my time as it is. We’re going to stay focused.

              Biden is responsible for his failures and he’ll be held accountable for them. Pretending that the buck doesn’t stop with the president doesn’t change the fact that ultimately, a president is responsible for the outcomes of government during their tenure. That’s how the world works, in-spite of your desire to live in a fantasy that is otherwise. Because of this, defending Biden’s poor record on outcomes becomes an unconvincing argument on why to support him, and highlights his weakness, broadly, as a leader. Engaging in apologetics does more to damage Biden’s chances than it does to support them. We need Biden to win or we’re beyond fucked, but he has to actually do better. It can’t be in the form of soundbytes or apologetics from the media or his online sycophants.

              • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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                7 months ago

                Is the President responsible for the outcomes of their tenure?

                Again, not always.

                I have answered your question twice. I have asked you twice to answer mine. Will you?

                • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  And you are 100% delusional about that answer. You are simply wrong.

                  A president or any other leader is always responsible for the outcomes of their tenure. Always and immutably. It doesn’t matter why the failure happened. It doesn’t matter if they were stymied or an asteroid hits or a pandemic occurs. The buck stops there.

                  You can feign ignorance of that or pretend its some other way, but it doesn’t change anything.

                  The pandemic happened under Trump and he was ultimately held accountable for that. In spite of his shockingly poor ability to mange the state through the pandemic he still barely lost. If not for the randomness of a global pandemic, and his utterly bungled response, he’d probably still be President now.

                  Biden is accountable for the US’s failure to support Ukraine. Biden is responsible for the US enabling of a genocide in Israel. Biden is also responsible for how peoples lives have improved or failed to improve post covid. If he can get some loan forgiveness to people on student loans, he’ll be responsible for that too.

                  Deferring responsibility isn’t just a bad look, its a direct example of one being disqualified for the role they are seeking. When you argue that someone else is responsible for Biden failure to get things done, you are arguing that Biden is not qualified for the office.