https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1759623139091243242
Social democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism
Death to fascists
https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1759623139091243242
Social democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism
Death to fascists
Bernie is and has always been a skilled political but at least he is not hypocritical and duplicitous like so many others.
You just blow in from stupid town or is this a bad sarcasm bit?
To clarify, Bernie Sanders supported NATO bombing Yugoslavia with the rationale of preventing genocide, he has never to my knowledge apologized or disagreed with this since then, he has a history of being willing to physically bomb a people to stop genocide, yet now he balks at sanctions(which he also is very happy to deploy, unless they are geopolitically inconvenient to him.)
Did you know that the most powerful way to win over people and debate effectively is to open up with an ad hominem?
Bernie is a human, and like most of us has been on the wrong side of things in the past, he is not on the wrong side here, but he does not have the support or backing to do more than use strong words.
Begging the Question. Appeal to Emotion. Fallacy Fallacy. Slothful Induction. Appeal to Nature.
What would you suggest then? What more can I do and say as an individual than what I have? What can he do that you would deem more effective?
Good post
I dont know what this means.
it’s from the 2017 movie first reformed
You could also get on the Bernie hate bandwagon. That would be a marginal improvement.
He didn’t even use words like “genocide” and “ethnic cleansing”. What’s he’s doing is worse than useless because it doesn’t rock the boat and libs don’t get mad and they can entirely ignore him.
An ad hominem isn’t a fancy word for “an insult” you stupid fucking idiot. An ad hominem is a rhetorical fallacy that ties your (bad) personal character to the quality of the argument you make - You are a stupid fucking idiot, therefore your argument is wrong.
Learn what things mean you dog, you beetle, you utter stain on my underwear. Insulting you isn’t a fallacy, it’s what you get for being a dumbass.
God this should be a site tagline
I’ve written so many bangers and yet the site admins refuse me this honor 😔
You ever just wake up in the morning and think, “yeah I’ll run interference for genocide supporters”?
Couldn’t be me.
Nope never not real my mo.
Did you know that ad hominem is not a fancy word for insult?
I knew a guy that had a chart of logical fallacies they would point to and show off. They had a collage of their favourite men as their computer desktop background as well, faces like Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson. It was for inspiration.
But he didn’t use strong words. He bloviated in a way that makes liberals think he did, but he carefully avoided actually doing it.
What putting a timeline on another person’s freedom does to a mf. If you were under the gun, you wouldn’t have much tolerance for the devil’s advocate. Letting people pontificate about the morality of genocide got us to this point in the first place. To what end would you try and win over an advocate of genocide? You don’t actually debate a hostage taker or try to win them over. You don’t actually entertain the idea that they had a point in putting an innocent person in a violent situation. Empathy might be a tactic in the strategy in order to expropriate the hostage taker from the victims like getting the hostage taker to admit they’re in over their head. Bernie clearly doesn’t have an overarching strategy of frustrating Israel’s capacity to enslave Gaza. If the frame is anything but Israel should be made to yield then you’re playing games with people’s lives and it’s sad that someone once told you that it’s okay to do that
It’s not hypocritical or duplicitous to campaign as a progressive against racism but then turn around and support a segregationist’s presidential bid, and refuse to call for a ceasefire for months as Israel commits genocide?
I mean, Bernie always said he would endorse the Democratic candidate if he lost and he was consistent in his career of being a liberal Zionist. So yes, he is not a hypocrite.
That’s definitely true but I’d still say he was deceiving his supporters, even if those who read up on his history would notice the problem.
no, because what happens if he takes a hard line on this, he looses all his political capital and goes back to being a small fish. Unlike the democrats he does not have a large party backing him he has to make more compromises and pick and choose on the issues that he can meaningfully impact.
Just saying no to everything for ideological reasons alone is what the Republicans do, and we have seen how effective their governance is.
He is a small fish already and has no political future to speak of. We’re judging him as a person.
Im judging him for his effectiveness at representing the population of Vermont, and while they might look homogeneous they are not.
What would you ask of him since you are judging his person. What is your request, and have you written him to help him understand your position? Or are you just here attacking him from a safe position anonymously and trying to drive up internet outrage, when we need to be directing our outrage to them directly and in forms that their staff have to read?
Bernie does regular AMA’s on Hexbear. He reads all of our comments.
Really, Link?
You can find all of the AMA’s aggregated on the Hexbear Posting Policy Bulletin.
Right here
https://hexbear.net/PPB
Here you go!
Their staff doesn’t give a fuck. Grow up.
You think that you can just write to career politicians and they will change their position? Has this ever happened even once? You are supposed to take them to dinner and donate to their “campaign” if you want them to pay attention.
What capital? What did it afford him in means of policy change?
Here is an idea: call Israel genocidal state, leak all classified info he can get his hands on and punch biden. Probably will save more people that this barking
I mean, they’re absolutely awful, but in terms of accomplishing their goals Mitch McConnel’s strategy of saying no to everything in order to deny the Democrats a win has worked out brilliantly.
Capital, that thing that you need to never spend because when you spend it you don’t get it back. Oh, sorry, that’s “The lives of genocide victims”, “capital” is something you do spend (“invest”) to get more of it.
First of all, there is no “compromise” between “genocide palestinians” and “don’t genocide palestinians.”
the plurality of 18-29 year olds, that is, the only group of people who supported sanders in his primary bids are also the group most likely to be against israel’s genocide of palestinians. with whom does he gain “political capital” by supporting israel? People who never supported him in the first place. with whom does he lose “political capital?” The people who supported him. Anyway I hope someone more sophisticated than me in the art of rhetoric and more patient in the art of education is able to exorcise your brainworms with respect to liberal “compromise” politics.
The republicans and the democrats both support israel, both support war against china, both support NATO expansion, both support capitalism, both support imperialism, both support racism. Demokkk-rats just do it more politely. They drive the car off the cliff at 90 miles an hour instead of 100 miles an hour. They drone strike the children instead of sending roided up marines to do it in person. Oh, and they have slight disagreements with their republican colleagues on matters of priority, like whether China or Russia is a bigger threat, but not on fundamentals.
ok but what if we only genocide half the Palestinians?
Your talking about how they direct how everything goes even if they aren’t technically in power to the point were their opposition claims that if they win just more one election they super win forever?
like Rosa said
“Obstructing your opponent for ideological reasons is what Republicans do”
Yes, and it’s highly effective. Imagine if someone with a good ideology did that.
Them: “but isn’t [all of these hypocritical things] hypocritical?”
You: “No because that would be inconvenient”.
This is your brain on liberalism.
In the last half-century, who’s policy has been more predominant, Republican or Democrat? You can’t deny that “saying no to everything for ideological reasons” has been an effective strategy for implementing their vision, regardless of how shitty it’s been in practice. Wouldn’t it be nice to have real victory for a change? Not just this “they go low, we go high” empty moral victory?
Did you even watch the video?
Yes I did, and while I wish he would have been stronger, and I wish he would rebuke the democrats and Biden for their willingness to look the other way on genocide I also recognize that he use the strongest words he could for the given situation. Congress as a whole, and the democrats are pro Israel. What good would it do for him to draw a absolute line in the sand when he has no support from his peers, and no backing of a national party.
You are correct that he’s just as cowardly and pathetic as the rest of the Democratic Party
Understand that when ROE was overturned I called a family member of the democratic party and ripped them a new one over that. Its their fault for not standing up to the republicans when the stole two justices. Its their fault that we have seen the erosion of voter rights. Its their fault Trump won because “its her turn”, and it will be their fault again when Trump wins again because they have no actual leadership and Biden is not a viable candidate anymore.
So yes I agree that they can act cowardly and lack a spine as a group, but Bernie has done more to bring progressive ideals to the party, and done more to demonstrate how weak that party is than just about anyone over the last 30 years. I dont see the value in having him self immolate on this single issue. I also find Biden’s stance on it the bigger issue. It should not require Bernie to alone stand on the capital steps and burn himself in fire to make a point.
This single issue is genocide. And you treat it like it’s a question of increasing the increasing the marginal tax rate. You, much like Bernie, are morally repulsive.
If it’s a choice between that and supporting genocide, then uh
O man, you got me I have been outed to the whole internet as a morally repulsive person that wanted to try to have a discussion about a nuanced political issue while also holding personal values that contrast with the position of the representative in question.
Guess I will have to go support the status quo, since being opposed to genocide and apartheid is morally repulsive.
TBH it was my error, I for some crazy reason forgot that c/politics is for fascist blowjobs and not nuanced discussion.
I have no idea what your goal is here, but the guy who pointed out that Bernie is not going to fuck me contributed more to the discussion than your ability to read at a 2nd grade level.
Hmmm it’s so nuanced, oh I love nuance
It was my first attempt at trying a different method to see if you actually want to talk, I may keep trying because im sure we have more in common than you think. Just need to find the right combination of memes and fascist misogyny to signal that were on the same side.
So it’s ok to call your relative and ring them out over whatever likely minor role they had in the rollback of abortion protections, but we can’t find fault in one of the most prominent members of the senate who’s supposedly the figurehead of progressive politics in the US because he’s essentially supporting a genocide?
If his legacy is that of popularizing more left wing views in the US, he’s doing everything he can to destroy all of that and self immolate by supporting Israeli genocide. Even by your “realpolitik” perspective of some leftist endgame - one that he has absolutely no chance of reaching before he dies of old age no matter how nice he plays - you should be condemning him outright as well.
No i called a family member, there is no point in calling my representatives, they were for repealing ROE and one of them is a child sex trafficker who groomed a high school student to be his now wife.
You simply didn’t vote hard enough 😌
except calling out an ongoing genocide by an ethno-nationalist-state, seems like that would be a really good thing to bring to the party right now
he couldn’t even agree with the comparison with South Africa Apartheid, complete just smoothing over the status quo
if he can’t even do that, how does he expect to stop the military aid bill?
Bernie Sanders isn’t going to fuck you
probably not, and he is not really my type either.
No? Unless you think that it’s impossible to be an american politician without sucking Israel’s dick. In which case I hope you recognise that it’s not a democracy, and that because you recognise that you’re also advocating for revolution and not advocating for voting democrats. I doubt all of that though. You’re a lib that will support them even as their bombs drop on children.
It sure feels that way, I have wanted to have a deeper conversation about a Palestinian state for the last 30 years but were so stuck in Israel is our ally and push back against radical Islam that we cant recognize our efforts compound the problem and the hate.
I think its also rather clear to see what happens when a representative steps up and is willing to speak the truth about Israel.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57436573
I am begging you to read Parenti’s Inventing Reality
Here’s a fun fact: the U.S. does not want to push back against “radical Islam.” From support to the Grey Wolves in Turkey (NATO), to the Mujihadeen, to ISIS, “radical Islam” has found support wherever it furthers Western imperialist interests.
“[Graham Fuller, CIA, stated that] the policy of guiding the evolution of Islam and of helping them [Muslims] against our adversaries worked marvelously well in Afghanistan against the Red Army. The same doctrines can still be used to destabilize what remains of Russian power, and especially to counter the Chinese influence in Central Asia. This policy of destabilization was devised by Bernard Lewis, an Oxford University specialist on Islamic studies, who called for the creation of an ‘Arc of Crisis’ around the southern borders of the Soviet Union by empowering Muslim radicals to rebel against their Communist overlords.” – Paul L. Williams, Operation Gladio, p. 271.
With regards to the Palestinian state, Israel is only “our ally” due to its role in the Middle East as a haven for European Jewish opportunism/separatism, and as a Western settler-colonial power as seen in Herzl’s appeals to Britain.
And compounding the hate? Do you think the U.S. is oblivious to the fact that Israel’s identification of its settler-colonial terrorism with the Jewish people, bombing under the banner of the Star of David (despite oppression of Yemeni and Ethiopian Jews/farcical desecration of religious and cultural symbols), only furthers antisemitism across the region, which is then used retroactively to justify further oppression? Are you seriously under the impression that those in command of the U.S., despite being so concerned with Hamas, have not read their 2017 Charter which perfectly lays this out (and this has of course been said prior)? The U.S. is no better than Israel, and cannot cleanse itself by revoking support to Israel, a state only more brutal in that it is in its infancy, and still does not have the sufficient reach to designate all its atrocities to be carried out by proxy groups.
Your example is Ilhan Omar? Who is still broadly pretty popular in her district and notably still in office, she just had some democrat leadership yell at her and tone police her a couple times? She’s been calling this a genocide since october and… surprise surprise, she’s fine. If anything people have more respect for her now.
This genocide has changed the landscape, it’s out in the open and Isntrael have dropped the mask, dropped almost all pretense, so for bernie to continue to be soft on Israel, acting like it’s still the 2010s is fucking shortsighted even in his own self interest, and for political popularity.
AND Bernie isn’t even a dem, and he’s a well established incumbent senator, so he’s even more isolated from that sort of establishment pressure the article you linked describes.
why are liberals so afraid of taking a stand
if you don’t want to use your spine, just don’t become a politician, it should be that easy
this is what gets you a complete and total purge of the left in politics
I’ve found the issue! You think we’re looking out for his best interests!
https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1721316148350701936
I already knew all of that, but contrasting him with Bernie’s Zionism is making me respect Corbyn more.
But he’s still a succdem, so there’s probably something shitty about him that will eventually sour my opinion of him, and my general hope for a better future.
I don’t think the comparison with Corbyn is fair. Labour looks like it will win the next election by a landslide, and whatever Corbyn says will have little impact on that. Also, criticising Israeli aggression isn’t as career-ending in the UK as it is in the US. So I think Corbyn has a lot more freedom to follow his conscience, whereas Bernie has to tread very carefully.
Corbyn has been loudly anti-Zionism for his entire career AFAIK. Also it literally did end his career (well, his leadership), the “antisemitism” bullshit is what other Labour members used to tank him in 2017 and he just didn’t recover from there.
And there’s a difference between “treading carefully” and basically throwing full support behind Israel (but asking them to be a little nicer) like Bernie is doing.
The antisemitism bullshit was just a convenient excuse. They would have kicked him out one way or the other.
Until he announces a new party.
Honestly he probably wouldn’t for exactly that reason. While he is better than Bernie, I’m guessing he shares in the “we have to beat [the Tories/Trump]” sentiment.
Uhh no Corbyn absolutely doesn’t share that sentiment lmao.
I believe the rumours. We heard about certain discussions before the news even started mentioning it. There were definitely enquiries and conversations going on behind closed doors.
If we split the labour vote and win constituencies forcing Labour to make a coalition to form a government we can actually force them left. There’s no reason not to do it, same strategy that UKIP used against the conservative party to force them further right.
Is Labour really that far ahead that a spoiler couldn’t hand it to the Tories?
Damn, I didn’t know there’s actual rumors. I thought it was more a hypothetical. Hype. Do it Jezza, please.
Nooooo not a spoiler???
He said the words!
Zionism is doomed. Hamas will be victorious.
https://www.palestinechronicle.com/word-genocide-makes-me-queasy-sanders-slammed-in-ireland-for-gaza-stance-video/