https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2021/06/how-the-fossil-fuel-industry-convinced-americans-to-love-gas-stoves/

Surveys showed that most people had no preference for gas water heaters and furnaces over electric ones. So the gas companies found a different appliance to focus on. For decades, sleek industry campaigns have portrayed gas stoves […] as a coveted symbol of class and sophistication

[…]

The sales pitches worked. The prevalence of gas stoves in new single-family American homes climbed from less than 30 percent during the 1970s to about 50 percent in 2019.

[…]

Beginning in the 1990s, the industry faced a new challenge: mounting evidence that burning gas indoors can contribute to serious health problems. […]

Cooking is the No. 1 way you’re polluting your home.

https://archive.ph/Aiyd2

You have more control over temperature on an induction cooktop than you have with a gas cooktop, but there is a learning curve. Samsung induction cooktops show a blue “virtual flame”, which can help a new user visualize the amount of heat going to the pan.

  • TrashGoblin [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    49
    ·
    2 months ago

    Induction ranges are as good as gas, but they’re also new and expensive. Coil element ranges are not as good as gas, because they are slow to respond to changes.

    You absolutely can get used to a coil range and do good cooking on them, but it’s disingenuous to say they’re as good as gas, and it hurts our argument for phasing out gas ranges to say that they are.

    • Palacegalleryratio [he/him]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      16
      ·
      2 months ago

      Absolutely true. I have used gas, induction, electric coil, ceramic. In terms of utility for cooking, gas and induction are the top two, with induction being slightly better in my experience.

      Electric coil is bad and the ceramic version isn’t much of an improvement. It’s possible to cook well, but the pulsed nature of the heat is not great for fine temp control with a reactive pan (e.g. steel and aluminium ply) but it’s still fine for something like cast iron which is non responsive anyway, it smooths the heat out just fine.

    • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      ·
      2 months ago

      I’ll give you induction is just as good but they’re fucking expensive and it limits what cookware you can use if I understand correctly from when we were last looking.

      We were stuck with a shitty old electric stove in our house and upgrading to a gas stove is a massive improvement. Idk what trying to say that electric is as good as gas does other than get anyone who cooks daily to disregard your opinion.

      It’s pretty nice ro be able to actually bring a full stock pot to a boil in less than 40 minutes.

    • Dessa [she/her]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      I prefer a coil to induction if we’re talking capabilities. You can work around slow responses on coil by using 2 burners or simply pulling the pan and allowing inertia to cook while a single burner cools.

      You can’t workaround an induction’s inability to convect when convection is called for.

      Water boils more slowly, sure, but it will boil eventually

    • Edamamebean [she/her]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      2 months ago

      I don’t buy it that gas ranges are universally better than electric. I think they’re just different and good at different things. Sure you can change the temperature faster on gas, but is that the end all and be all of cooking? Have you ever tried to cook something on a gas stove that requires low heat for a long time, like rice or a slow cooked sauce? It’s extremely fucking annoying, gas can’t maintain consistent low temperature like electric can. Call it a skill issue if you want but my mother who has been cooking her whole life still struggles with making rice on the gas stove since moving to her new house 4 years ago.

  • EllenKelly [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    43
    ·
    2 months ago

    Phasing out gas cooking should always be a health and safety issue, I see people talk about the effects on children, but never about cooks who work in kitchens with a dozen burners running all day

    One thing that really bugs me is we use gas to create steam to generate electricity to boil an electric kettle to boil water, really a minor pet peve here

    another thing on cooking. so many home cooking appliances are dogshit, unsafe, too loud, and emit fumes with poor ventilation, and my new conspiracy is the modern nuclear family thing takes away power from unionised workplaces

    • electric_nan@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      2 months ago

      Yeah, I rent and way prefer gas stoves to any electric ones I’ve ever had available to me. I don’t have any real experience with induction stoves, but I know if I moved into a place with one, I’d have to buy all new pans.

      • Dessa [she/her]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        ·
        2 months ago

        One of the most frustrating things about induction for me is that if a pan develops any sort of curve, it’s as good as a paperweight. It will heat only on that tiny point of contact.

        Great for the electricity bill tho

    • newerAccountWhoDis [they/them]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      2 months ago

      Where I’m from people rent empty apartments - there’s no furniture, rarely a kitchen, and sometimes not even flooring. Most buildings are older than 100 years and have options for both gas and electric stoves. People can rent and still decide how they want to live.

      • keepcarrot [she/her]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        2 months ago

        Here, you get a stove or oven, but getting one installed would be seen as risky. Also a dishwasher. If your place does not come with these things, you are not using them.

    • mindaika@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      2 months ago

      When I bought my home, I chose a gas stove because that’s what the builder installed, and I continue to use it because I don’t want to spend $2-5000 for a stove replacement and remodel to power it

      • driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        If you are thinking on the ecological impact, keeping burning methane gas is better that scrapping a functional stove for a new induction one.

  • hypercracker@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    34
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    2 months ago

    anytime somebody claims it is impossible to cook without natural gas I just say “skill issue” and it is a hard counter, they cannot possibly respond to it without sound like they are very mad

    • tactical_trans_karen [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      19
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      2 months ago

      Def a skill issue. But I must say, I hate electric glass top, way too much heat retention in the glass. I love the quick control I get with my gas burners, but if I had the money it’d be induction all day for me. There’s literally no downside.

      • TomBombadil [he/him, she/her]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        Absolutely. For cooking gas is ok but induction is purely better if you can swing it. I’m thinking of upgrading my electric stove because like the only thing bidens climate bill has done is like give $800 rebate for em.

        I mean if my state ever bothers to implement it .

        100% skill issue though. I cook better shit on my electric stove than anyone with a gas stove I know

          • TomBombadil [he/him, she/her]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            2 months ago

            I suppose purely better is hyperbole as I can’t account for taste. But some objective metrics… induction releases far less pollution than burning gas does. It also removes various risks with gas stoves in a home. Additionally it is more energy efficient when measuring the required energy to say boil water.

            As far as personal preference goes I can barely speak to it. Unfortunately my houses have had shitty electric for the last decade or so. Had gas before that at home and admittedly enjoyed cooking on it generally. Also used gas when I worked in a kitchen long ago. I’ve loved Everytime I’ve had a chance to use an induction stove though. The response and speed is incredible with the right pan. As is the cleanliness.

            I do fucking hate that they often have touch screens style controls

          • TomBombadil [he/him, she/her]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            2 months ago

            Weirdly ya I think the direct coils can potentially cook a little better than glass electric. Induction smokes em both. And gas is also better for cooking if worse in other ways than the electric

    • nothx [he/him]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      ·
      2 months ago

      Yeah, there are so many people where the extent of their cooking is boxed mac & cheese, but they insist they NEED a gas stove. I grew up with gas until college, then had electric until recently (sellers left their appliances). The main difference is expectations, most people who only know gas, only know how their pots/pans react to a flame, but try cooking on it more than one time and its pretty easy to adjust.

  • AmericaDelendaEst [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    31
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    2 months ago

    I love all the nerd ass comments telling me UMM ACTUALLY YOU ONLY LOVE GAS STOVE BECAUSE PROPAGANDA YOU’RE A MORON

    Im a professional cook and I’ve cooked more in the last year alone than most of y’all will in your lives, I know what I’m about, thx

    literal gaslighting btw “don’t believe your lying eyes and years of experience cooking, you’ve just been lied to bro”

    • TomBombadil [he/him, she/her]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      23
      ·
      2 months ago

      I mean two things can be true… The gas industry wants more homes to have gas stoves while in fact they are useless and wasteful for most people. And gas can be a preference for certain people in certain circumstances.

    • SSJ3Marx [he/him]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      20
      ·
      2 months ago

      Im a professional cook and I’ve cooked more in the last year alone than most of y’all will in your lives

      Okay, but have you done a similar amount of cooking on induction as you have on gas? Have you been in a professional kitchen where all of the appliances used electric? Have you actually ruled out that gas is better or is it just your totally unscientific preference?

      I was a professional cook too before I left that toxic ass industry, btw.

      • came_apart_at_Kmart [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        15
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        it’s not all propaganda, though a lot of it is. they have spent billions over the years to convince people that the existing way of doing things is far superior to an alternative technology they have limited experience with.

        but yes, your affection for the gas range is not entirely propaganda. some of it is years and years of gas fumes.

      • AmericaDelendaEst [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        Have you actually ruled out that gas is better or is it just your totally unscientific preference

        The nerdiest debate broiest response i could imagine

        What the fuck is “better” here? Literally what does that mean? Because unless you’re making a direct comparison between like energy efficiency or whatever it literally is down to preference. Is induction more energy efficient and “faster” heat? Sure, but like other people have said, it requires the pan to make direct contact. It stops heating as soon as it’s lifted. It is less responsive and I have greater fine control over how I am applying heat with gas. To me that’s “better,” ahh but woops, that’s NoT sCiEnTiFiC. I also prefer a stove that works when the power is out (ffucking nerds in the comments acting like that neeeever happens, or “just buy a portable stove” (you gonna fucking buy one for me? no? huh)) because I like to eat and not starve

        Have you been in a professional kitchen where all of the appliances used electric

        Yknow it’s weird but every professional kitchen I’ve ever been in is all gas everything, huh

        • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          edit-2
          2 months ago

          Seriously on the one hand we have arguments like “skill issue”, “just overthrow your government and make your electric grid immune to weather” and “white people can’t cook so their opinion doesn’t matter”

          And then on the other we have every single commercial kitchen everywhere in the entire world.

          Guess who I’m gonna side with between “every professional cook on earth” and “edgy internet contrarians”

        • SSJ3Marx [he/him]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          2 months ago

          Brudda my very simple point is that if you haven’t spent a significant amount of time working with electric/induction - as you have with gas - then you can’t confidently make the assertion that you’re making. Every single thing you mentioned except for the burners working during a power outage is an issue that you might not have if you spent the time getting used to it, and in this case the effort required to get used to it will literally add years onto your life because you’ll be huffing fewer toxic fumes.

      • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        edit-2
        2 months ago

        The main difference between gas and induction for me were that you can’t stir over heat (doing the shaking thing over flames, I don’t know what the word is) because the pan needs to have direct contact with the induction stove and all the induction stoves I’ve used have been way worse when it comes to adjusting heat. Also pans develop curves with use, or at least in my experience they do. As soon as they curve they suck on induction

            • AmericaDelendaEst [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              2 months ago

              I made pasta last night and mixed some pesto gravy into some pasta sauce and tossed it together and I literally counted like 15-20 times where, if it were induction, it would have stopped heating it due to me lifting and shaking the pan

              “It doesn’t cool down immediately” BUT IT DOES. IT STOPS HEATING. it starts cooling down at that moment! I don’t want the temperature to start dropping every time i move a damn pan

        • SSJ3Marx [he/him]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          2 months ago

          The pan doesn’t instantly get cold when you pick it up for two seconds to shake your stir fry around. And if it’s really such a problem then leave the pan on the stove top and stir with a wooden spoon or something.

          • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            2 months ago

            Thank you for explaining to me how my stovetop works, I really hadn’t considered leaving it on the top and stirring it with a spoon so this is really eyeopening for me. Likewise I appreciate you explaining how heat functions as I really did not consider the fact that pots stay hot, so once again thank you.

    • TraschcanOfIdeology [they/them, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      I’m willing to concede that for what most people cook in the US or parts of Europe, the way most people cook in those places, gas or induction have a negligible difference. That’s because most people in the global North can’t cook for shit, and at best do some glorified reheating or some basic-ass lmayo techniques. Have them change their ranges to induction, whatever.

      But for professional kitchens or other kinds of cooking that billions of people use open flames for? Get outta here. You’re going to tell the south American grandma who hasn’t left her town and has cooked with gas her whole life that she’s been brainwashed by the American oil and gas industry?

      • Dessa [she/her]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        16
        ·
        2 months ago

        Nah, there are a lot of people in the global north who can cook their asses off. Sure, a lot can’t, but cooking is a fundamental life skill and even colonists have culinary traditions.

        No matter what, somebody must cook. More people in the global north are eating out, sure, but there are people cooking for them like AmericaDelendaEst, and those numbers add up. Increasingly, fewer can afford to eat out anyhow, and learning to cook at home has become an outright necessity for most.

        Prepackaged ready-to-eat meals aren’t as cheap as they used to be, and you can get tired of them very quickly too

      • macerated_baby_presidents [he/him]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        ·
        edit-2
        2 months ago

        But for professional kitchens or other kinds of cooking that billions of people use open flames for? Get outta here. You’re going to tell the south American grandma who hasn’t left her town and has cooked with gas her whole life that she’s been brainwashed by the American oil and gas industry?

        You know, a pretty decent cause of mortality in poor countries is women cooking over wood fires in confined spaces. Combustion is just not good for you, there’s really no way around it.

        Also the idea that most people in the north can’t cook well enough for their tools to matter is laughable. That’s just your vulgar reaction to fetishism of high-class French cooking. What evidence could possibly support it? We can joke about the Brits eating like the Blitz is still going on but you can’t set up an objective ranking of cuisines.

    • driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      2 months ago

      My wife is a professional cook too and she love our induction and use almost exclusively the inductions on her job. The fact that they can be timed to be turned off automatically was a game changer for her.

    • nothx [he/him]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      15
      ·
      2 months ago

      The induction stove top i had at my last apartment was one of my favorites because of its ease to clean. It functioned really well, but it was also like wiping down any other flat surface. With my current gas stove top i need to pull all the grates off, dismantle the burners, scrub in hard to reach places that seem to attract food… It’s honestly a miserable chore.

      • TomBombadil [he/him, she/her]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        2 months ago

        My current place has a glass electric cooktop (please let me upgrade to induction) and I was worried about it to but I’ve had no issue. Just don’t be slamming things around I guess. I think you’d have to be pretty crazily just like dropping cast iron pans on it or get unlucky.

        • goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          2 months ago

          Unlucky is my fear haha.

          Big pro for them is also easier to clean if you don’t have to remove parts when cleaning

          • TomBombadil [he/him, she/her]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            2 months ago

            I use huge pans, cast iron, and more on the stove and I’m not exactly a graceful creature and so far not broken. I really think it would be bad luck to like put a pan down and the top shatters haha. Definitely possible though.

            Cleaning is nice though. Spray down and wipe. Maybe a little powder sprinkled on for extra power of something got cooked on. Easy

    • SoJB@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      14
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      The funniest part is that nobody even brought up the supposed better performance of gas (again, skill issue) as some kind of attack against gas.

      The entire thing is about not fucking poisoning yourself and your entire family every time you cook a meal.

      Lead and asbestos are great for performance too, yet you don’t see comrades obstinately defending adding those into everything.

      It is simply not a logically, ethically, physically safe, or morally defensible position.

  • DashboTreeFrog
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    21
    ·
    edit-2
    2 months ago

    My partner insisted on a gas stove despite my protests in our last two places because of the “control”. The few times we used electric or induction cookers on vacation she would get really frustrated.

    Cut to our current place that just came with an electric cooker with no option for gas. A few months in and she’s got no complaints and even comments on how it’s not that different once you get used to it.

    The learning curve is real, and some people will push back at first, but if forced to, I’m pretty sure every single person can figure out cooking just as well with electric.

  • Formerlyfarman [none/use name]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    19
    ·
    2 months ago

    Where I live electricity is rationed, gass is not. I can afford to cook with gas. If I were to use electricity I would exceed the allowed usage and they would charge insane fees.

  • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    17
    ·
    edit-2
    2 months ago

    I just gotta say, all the induction stoves I’ve tried have been completely useles on ranges 1-5, had a mild effect on 6 almost medium heat on 7, more than medium heat on 8 and then 9 is just more 8 and 10 is a way to boil water faster than my electric water boiler.
    Also whoever it is that designs stovetops with touchscreen needs to go to the gulag I fucking hate them. And whoever decided to add a feature to the last induction stove I had where it would beep when it was turned on and nothing was on it… straight to jail.

  • macerated_baby_presidents [he/him]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    16
    ·
    2 months ago

    I have a CO2 monitor (which is probably picking up NOx too, it’s not expensive enough to be selective) and can literally watch the air quality get worse as I use the gas stove or range. I’ve never lived in an apartment with a functioning range hood. I’d like to try induction. I watched a Technology Connections video saying that raw power delivery, e.g. boiling water, is faster.

    Also, a quirk of how gas works in Chicago is that you pay a flat hookup fee of ~$30 a month, and a fee per therm for consumption. Cooking uses so little gas that the consumption part of my bill is pennies. If I had an induction stove, and if I had an inefficient electric furnace instead of gas, I’d probably still save $25 a month.

  • Nakoichi [they/them]@hexbear.netM
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    16
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    2 months ago

    idk I gotta say I have no scientific basis for this but there’s just something that feels different about cooking on an open flame. grillman

    Like for example I just could not imagine cooking with a wok or making kebabs on anything but actual fire.

  • Dessa [she/her]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    14
    ·
    2 months ago

    It depends on your method of cooking. Different stoves offer different advantages. I’ve owned all 3 and actively enjoy cooking, so they’ve all gotten plenty of use for different purposes. My favorite method of cooking though is stir-fry, so I’ll talk about that more.

    Quality/Price matters here. There’s a reason most restaurants use gas still, and it’s because your high-end gas hob can do things no other stove can do. You’re not going to find a better way to stir-fry indoors than this (A grill can do a good job outdoors).

    Most people are not getting anywhere close to the sort of output – or proper venting – that a restaurant has.

    As a stir-fry fan, the best stove I’ve ever had at home for this was a cheap coil electric. They get stupidly hot, and that is the baseline fir stir-fry. You want an old-ass one that doesn’t have temperature safeguards. This is likely what a cheap landlord will provide you in an old building.

    Glasstop electric looks nice, but I don’t get the point. I guess you can’t have food fall under the burner? Not a fan.

    Induction is terrible for stir-fry. I’ve read about some specialized curved wok burners, and those might be good, but I absolutely cannot manage a decent stir-fry on these godforsaken things. I’ve got a mid-range Induction cooktop that does everthing surprisingly well EXCEPT stir-fry. The heat doesn’t recover quickly enough when you add new ingredients, there is close to zero heat on the side of the pan, so it’s hard to manage temperatures across elements, and you straight up can’t season a new wok on them (my wok has a non-removable wooden handle, so seasoning it in the oven is going to require creative solutions too).

    Anybody that tells you that an induction can do everything that a gas can is full of shit. This isn’t a “skill issue.” The technology just isn’t optimized for this. I will be buying a single-pan side-burner (probably coil electric, but I hear butane can be pretty good) for my wok unless somebody has direct experience with a specialized induction wok burner and can vouch for it.