Doesn’t matter - dems lost because people are constantly hearing the right’s narrative over and over and over again, reinforcing the idea that it’s reality.
It reminds me of how the majority of Americans thought the ACA was actually called Obamacare by Obama because he must be so vain, but now it’s on a massive scale.
We live in a world where people get to choose what is real and what is fake, and that choice is largely based on which idea is more entertaining, more emotionally satisfying to them. The right is capitalizing on this and the left is being left devastated.
The popular quote used to be ‘reality has a well-known liberal bias’. Well, now reality is whatever makes me feel angriest or scaredest and that has a well known conservative bias.
Misner said it was a difficult decision to vote for Trump. He said the point of the Abandon Harris campaign was to punish the Democrats for supporting Israel during its war in Gaza, which the campaigners view as a genocide, and he hopes the Trump campaign will be more willing to negotiate with group leaders.
Vindication feels awful here, honestly.
“I think the biggest problem is that your messaging to Arab Americans can’t just be ‘Trump’s a fascist, Trump is Hitler. Big, scary orange man, vote for me.’ Part of being a part of the American political system is being able to separate yourself from your opponent and lay out a better vision. And she did not do that,” Abdelrahman said.
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Negative messaging works, as much as people like to pretend it doesn’t.
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If you saw a literal fascist openly declaring fascist things, and your response to the milquetoast opposition is “Well, you’re not seperated enough, stylistically”, you’re not much more than a fascist enabler.
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In what fucking way is “Not fascism” not a better vision than “Literal fucking fascism”?
“She could have at least called for a ceasefire,” Khan said. (Harris repeatedly called for a ceasefire during her campaign, including during her Democratic convention speech.)
Ah, it’s just like being on Lemmy!
“Even in politics, humanity should be the first and the foremost thing to to be respected, to be valued, right? And [the] Democratic Party clearly, clearly, for an entire year showed us they do not care about human life,” Khan said. “They do not care about their constituents, how they feel about the massacre.”
Ah, yes, humanity is the first and foremost thing to be respected, which is why LGBT Americans have been served to fascists on a silver platter as a protest vote. Peak humanity.
Their idiocy knows no bounds.
“To punish the democrats for supporting Israel…”
Which Trump has approved of for years and provided the same support. They named a settlement Trump Heights in occupied territory to honor him for God’s sake!
The rest…
I’m so sick of people not doing their own research. The complete failure even just to member as far back as 4 years. That and the single minded focus of these morons. The sheer ignorance of people and the pig headed stubbornness to actually change their mindset when presented with irrefutable fact. All of that is what’s truly killing our country.
“Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on,” his campaign said in a statement.
Jfc, she did lay out a plan with details, she did call for ceasefire and a two state solution, god I can’t take this shit.
Whose job was it to get that message out?
Most people didn’t believe the fascism stuff. Democrats have used that in literally every election in my lifetime. They got played by being the little boy who calls wolf.
Then Harris told the working class that nothing would change and Trump promised lower grocery prices. It doesn’t matter that he was lying his ass off. Most people are not politically engaged enough to know there was zero chance of him keeping that promise.
And unfortunately this isn’t an election where only the politically educated get to vote. All of those points are bangers in your local university bar with political science students and professors. But all the common person sees is the guy who was president the last time they could afford stuff saying he’ll bring that back.
So yeah, Harris needed to actually do some campaigning, not just fear monger.
Is it the dems fault for calling reps what they are (and, news flash, have been for a long time)? Or is it your fault for allowing the reps to normalize fascism in your mind to the point it’s no longer a valid point?
For the record she did a fuck ton of campaigning and spent more time speaking with actual voters than the media and whatnot, she laid out detailed plans but no, it was because she spoke reality that Donny is a bad man and wants to do bad things. Was she not supposed to say anything about him at all? Not allowed to speak on the greatest threat to American democracy ever?
You the voter hold responsibility here as well. Oh but you got bored of being scared of fascism and now full-on fascism is here.
I’m sorry but Bush, McCain, and Romney were not fascist. Bush allowed more elections which is the big thing everyone’s afraid of. Trump is an actual danger, which is the story of the boy crying wolf. When the wolves actually come people don’t believe the boy. And political scientists have been warning the Democrats about that for more than a decade.
And no. The voters are not political professionals. Treating them like they are is naive at best.
And Bush invaded Iraq with such a honest justification. Looking from outside of USA, this ’Democrats crying wolf’ narrative just seems dumb; it’s acking to Obama being elected just because of Republicans crying for communist for the nth time. I mean e.g. what are the examples for McCain been called fascist? The Hills’s example was Madonna in a concert! And that the more serious examples in history are more of type of stupid one offs rather than more cohesive phenomenon.
Though I do not completely dismiss that this couldn’t be a factor but media are really trying to find the silver bullet of explanations which imho just doesn’t exist.
As I’ve had to tell other people, Democracy is plenty capable of doing bad things. Jumping straight to Fascism in a system where there are still open and fair elections is ridiculous.
Negative messaging works, as much as people like to pretend it doesn’t.
At least in this case it definitely didn’t.
Trump employed both negative and positive messaging, and that’s why he won. Trump was saying “the dems will destroy America but I will make America great again”, meanwhile Harris was saying “Trump will destroy America, but I will… Not do much”. You can probably imagine why one was more effective.
Did you see her ads? Or hear some of her speeches? She definitely had positive messaging, too. The fact is undermining education is finally coming home to roost and it has effected all of us. You want out of this mess? Make the masses clap. Thats the game now.
She had positive messaging, but not where people wanted it. This is the woman who, when asked if she would do anything different from Biden in regards to the economy, said “nothing comes to mind” while promising to put Republicans in her cabinet. She also kept going back on her early promises in the late part of the election, so she was basically screaming at the top of her lung that she’s not reliable and her promises don’t matter.
Believe me, we’re on the same page. The only time the democrats had steam was when they switched and before anyone opened their mouths. All they had to do was be progressives and also represent change instead of more of the same. It would have been a slam dunk for anyone not worried about corporate donors. We wanted more Lina Khan.
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“President Trump, he continuously came and he was in the community. While I don’t believe that he’s going to enact policies that will benefit the community, he at least showed that he was willing to show up for the community,” Misner said.
Not only will his policies not benefit the Arab-American communities in the US, they will end up actively harming them, as well as any chance of Palestinians even having a tiny slice of their own in the Middle East.
Congrats, Misner, you played yourself.
Did they forget about his travel ban for Muslims? Trump made it clear he hate their kind and is a racist. Why are they surprised? For fucks sake he told Israel that he hopes they finish the job and that gaza make great real estate for them. So they deserve what they get.
It’s hard to feel bad for the people that Voted for Trump, and are now going to be hurt by him. All the information was there, and they refused to accept it in favor of an alternate , counterfactual reality.
I have said time and time again that it’s not the voters fault, it’s the campaigns fault, but my gosh are people upsetting. I’d prefer someone not know my community exists than show up just to tout harmful policies. Like, how is stepping foot in a building just to burn it down showing you care about the people there? I’m so saddened by the whole situation.
Here’s a clip of an undecided voter talking about their politics and it makes me feel completely helpless (it’s a crowd work clip, but it’s just depressing): https://youtu.be/KTlhX0BkzGY
This is amazing. Kamala didn’t do enough so we are going with the guy who has literally said he will fuck up everything we stand for.
I actually think this is a very important lesson for Democrats: if you expect voters to vote rationally, you will lose. You can’t win by trying to appeal to people’s intellect and reason, you have to try and appeal to emotions and passions. If that sounds potentially dangerous, that’s because it is, but unless they’re willing to abandon democracy, I don’t see any other option.
Who could have guessed that “I’m 100% aligned with the guy who is helping to kill your extended family, but the other guy is probably worse” would result in a negative emotional response.
Who could have guessed
Not the Democrats, apparently.
Although, to be fair to the Democrats, it is difficult, if not impossible, to appeal to every potential voter’s emotions, especially in the Israel-Palestine conflict. It’s essentially impossible to try and appeal to the emotions of those sympathetic to Palestine without upsetting voters who are sympathetic to Israel, and vice versa.
Yeah, there’s no perfect “everyone loves me” choice for any issue. I do think the salience of the issue was probably different between Muslims and Jews though. “Not giving Israel more free bombs in their time of need” when they’re already dominating the battlefield is a different level of criticality than “is callously killing my family”. Plus, many Jews were also passionately against the genocide. It wasn’t simply a matter of adding up all the Jewish voters and Muslim voters and going with whichever number was bigger.
There was some path that minimized the number of voters so turned off by the choice that they’d abandon the Democrats, and I’m confident where they landed was no where close to that. I’m also confident that getting that one issue right would not have turned the tide and made Harris win, it’s just one of many she failed to handle by charting the path that was “I’m Biden, but reliably able to form sentences”.
I was an Elizabeth Warren supporter, but watching her give speeches I knew she was doomed when I realized that she was trying really hard to get people to think things. Every single one of her policies was fantastic, but her delivery was more about thoughts than feelings, and I’m convinced that little distinction of stagecraft, more than anything else, is what sunk her campaign.
It’s the same thing with Biden trying, legitimately trying I believe, to provide student loan relief and getting cock blocked by the Supreme Court, but then just asking people to think about the hard work he’d done, rather than picking a loud emotional fight on behalf of the students who’d just got the rug pulled out from under their feet.
You can apply this same lesson to a lot of Democratic messaging failures lately. Getting people to feel things is always going to win over getting them to think things.
It’s not even just logic versus emotion. It’s what was on offer. People are hurting. Harris said that was an economic victory and it wouldn’t change. Trump acknowledged they were hurting and promised change.
The post election and exit polling made that extremely clear. Running a stock corporate campaign that claimed Biden was doing everything great was never going to work.
The thing is, many of the people who were hurting economically and wanted Trump to change things are already crediting Trump with fixing the economy. Polling in swing states between October and November showed a huge swing in voters perception of the economy even though nothing actually changed. So I’d argue this is just emotion for a significant fraction of voters.
I’d say a perception. But yeah it feels a lot easier to deal with stuff when you believe it’s temporary.
I think that Kamala was known as the vibes candidate, she was going for appealing to peoples emotions?
I think she tried, but in a very ineffective way. The problem is the emotions that many, if not most Americans are feeling right now are centered around anger, resentment, disillusionment, angst, etc, and I don’t think Harris knew exactly how to capture that vibe. Admittedly, it’s a tall order.
I think what people wanted was someone to tell them they were right to be upset and that there were going to be big changes, but that’s risky because Harris was part of the incumbent administration and because it potentially alienates people who are pretty ok with the status quo and don’t want things to radically change. It’s an extremely difficult (if not impossible) balancing act, which, obviously, Harris did not pull off. To be fair to Harris, she didn’t have a lot of time to try and find the right balance given the unusual circumstances surrounding her nomination.
positive emotions only. no downers allowed.
It was a dumb idea.
Using this logic, how exactly did Trump not win in 2020??? It’s almost like absolutes don’t work in reality.
I actually think this is a very important lesson for Democrats
I think it’s going to be a very important lesson for dumbasses that voted against continuing some semblance of democracy.
enjoy that pretentious win for now shitbags. I hope it keeps you warm at night when we’re in work camps.
If it doesn’t, don’t worry, the piles of burning bodies will.
Look I get it, the Dems didn’t do enough to win over their base and instead went to the center.
But these Dearborn folks in the article get what they deserve and should really shut the fuck up. They voted for a man who said he would extend his Muslim country travel ban to gaza and still thought somehow he was on their side.
You are a complete a total dumbass if you thought he was on your side. He has years and years of lying out of his ass and you believed him and it’s the Democrats fault? No I reject that. He literally stated in 2023 that he would extend his travel ban to Gaza. I feel like I need to take crazy pills or something, these people are insufferable.
The article states that some of them just wanted a candidate to acknowledge them, which trump did. Regardless of how he’s actually going to implement policies, he did a bare minimum for them, which reflects in the results.
No other real editorializing needed, unfortunately.
How completely pathetic some people can be. I don’t understand.
“He had a rally in my town and told me what I wanted to hear, it’s no wonder I voted for him” just makes me laugh.
You are a complete a total dumbass if you thought he was on your side.
No one in the dem party thinks trump was on their side in any way. But they also thought Biden/Harris was a rabid dog that it was important for the parties future to put down (rhetorically). Nobody owes fascism or fascism-lite a vote, and I demand better from dems if they want to continue to exist as a party at all. Centrist leaders are not kings who get to make choices like aiding terrorism and murder, and then walk away without accountability.
Not only was no one in the centrist camp doing anything for the peace vote (the anti genocide side), by shipping weapons the centrists were actively and violently acting against the human rights side and the law. Did you think you were siding with neutrality? The DNC has not been neutral in this at all. They are abetting genocide and terrorism, and violating numerous US laws and the geneva convention.
Besides the muslim vote, the youth and progressive votes were heavily influenced by this issue, and their votes were right there for the taking. The Republicans were always going to be violent and corrupt, but people had higher expectations for Dems, so Dems taking those AIPAC bribes had consequences. This seems obvious to so many but you just refuse to see that you’re siding with the baddies, not some sort of neutral crowd you could make better someday.
And do you somehow feel powerful calling people dumbasses? Its against the TOS here and you lost along with the rest of us. Its pathetic that even in utter failure you are all mouth and contrived nonsense that your side has clean hands and was trying to do the right thing.
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Part of the problem is that Democrats made it extremely clear that not doing the genocide was off the table, so the choice is genocide on this timeline and genocide on a slightly faster one. I’m still not clear how Trump could speed this up, short of getting more branches of the US military involved directly in the process, American troops getting the🔻 treatment is probably what it’s going to take for Americans to lose their bloodlust.
Either way, that’s no choice to be made and plenty of people resented the Democrats for acting like they’re opposed to this sort of thing while directly participating in the worst crime of this century so far.
Democrats also demonstrated themselves to be prolific liars (maybe not on par with trump, but close) when it came out that they had been pretending Biden had still been functioning for years, do you think that makes people trust you?
I’ve just told you how he can make it worse. He can exact a travel ban when refugees are trying to come in (travel bans are based on country of origin, where you were born) How dense can you be??
short of getting more branches of the US military involved directly
How involved do you actually think we are in this conflict??? This comment makes me think I’ve been talking to teenagers tbh. We have 100 troops in that region and that started about a month ago.
Travel bans don’t do a damn thing for people that can’t leave the area they’re being genocide in.
Gaza’s borders are forcibly closed by Israel.
So, that argument is meaningless.
Secondly, the US could end Israel’s genocide with a single phone call, just like has been done EVERY OTHER SINGLE FUCKING TIME BEFORE!
That argument “but we’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas” is either ignorant beyond belief or made in bad faith to argue for continuing the genocide.
How dense can you be??
I know it’s very difficult but try making an argument that isn’t just insulting the other person lmao
How involved do you actually think we are in this conflict??? This comment makes me think I’ve been talking to teenagers tbh. We have 100 troops in that region and that started about a month ago.
Last I checked there have been multiple carrier strike groups deployed over the last year attempting to keep their supply through the Red Sea open. They even shot down a couple of terrorists recently.
They deployed a ton of the naval logistics to do the stupid pier that was only used to launch a massacre in Gaza from too.
It’s hilarious how you talk about how simple and easy it all is when you quite clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.
Everything you listed, the Republicans are guilty of by a far larger margin. The difference is that dems were talking about two state solutions while Trump quite literally was telling Bibi to turn Gaza into a goddamn parking lot. (And that’s just the most obvious clue you’re saying nothing of value lol)
I especially enjoyed you attempting to mount your high horse after this piss-poor attack by mentioning the break in TOS when the OP is talking in general and is not attacking a single person. It’s okay to say “people who think x, or do y are dumb”.
If anything, you’re the one breaking TOS:
- Do not engage in name calling, ad hominem attacks, or any other uncivil behaviour. Criticize ideas, never people.
You using the threat of TOS can be seen as ad hominem as a way to delegitimize the comment you replied to.
Everything you listed, the Republicans are guilty of by a far larger margin.
Thats utterly meaningless.
Elaborate please.
This article was about deerborn residents who are Muslim, justifying voting for trump. So these people voted for the party who did things way worse than Democrats and that’s utterly meaningless? Can’t wait to hear the response.
Elaborate please.
The vote-for-Biden-because-he-is slightly-better-than-trump-crowd forgot that voters have a third choice-- disengagement and apathy. Which is what happened isnt it. Reduced turnout from almost every single demographic.
Now the Dem brand is trashed, along with the western world order, the brand of democracy itself, and the brand of the united states. All so some incompetent idiots at the DNC could take some filthy AIPAC bribes to enable a far right wing religious genocide and other obvious war crimes.
Previous generations of dems understood that you dont win a campaign by just saying you are a centrist and stopping there. You at least pretend to be progressive during the camapign, because thats what the voters want. You need some carrot. All stick + cult of personality doesnt work. Its not exactly complicated. Canibalizing your base to reach for the mythical middle in republican territory has never turned out votes either. But the loss of the base is a sunk cost when you choose to roll that particular dice. We saw that play out as Harris lost support on a daily basis for the month leading up the election.
Thats not even taking into account that its just plain wrong, and causes people to lose trust in the Dem party. In the case of youth that trust might be permanently lost.
You have not addressed the points that were asked. All you did was a faux putin-esqe history lesson about the history of the Dems and what they did. I want to know why voting for a Republican is better than voting the the democrat. All you did was basically go on a separate rant about a separate issue.
Please try again and actually answer what is being asked.
I dont think you read or understood what I wrote.
Having your entire extended family disappeared over a period of a month is not significantly better than having them disappeared over a course of a day.
That isn’t hyperbole.
I personally know 2 people that that happened too.
Expecting people to vote for the people that did that to them, and then getting mad at them when they don’t vote is some of the stupidest “I don’t have empathy and don’t even want to try imagining myself in their position, even though I’m going to say I did.” bullshit ever.
That isn’t hyperbole.
Yes it is, it is an exaggerated claim that you have just said “trust me bro.” That is as close as you can get to hyperbole.
Also, again this isn’t your opportunity to grandstand about your vote not being earned, I’m sure it was a tough time for you, but I’m actually asking a question that has yet to be answered.
You know nothing about how I voted.
Stop assuming bullshit.
And no, it isn’t hyperbole. It happened. If it know any Palestinians at all, and you bothered to show an ounce of human decency and asked them about it, toys probably find out was true for you, topo.
That’s what happens in a fucking genocide.
They didn’t vote Trump, they just didn’t vote for your racist, sexist, corporate shitbag of a candidate. Sorry, you dont deserve the votes of minorities by promising to genocide them less than the other guy.
Actually yes they did vote trump, studies show that only 20% voted harris. Not to mention the article quite literally is quoting these folks’ justification for voting trump. The remainder was split between the green party (you know that party that doesn’t do ANY down ballot initiatives and only shows up in swing states in presidential elections) and trump.
This is ignoring the fact that not voting in a swing state is pretty much the same thing as voting for the other person because the race is so close.
It didn’t help trump directly but it did help him win.
Despite breathless accusations by idiots, not voting does not equal a vote for the other side.
It absolutely does in a two party duopoly in a swing state. Stop trying to be right and look at the reality of the situation.
Nope. Hold on, let’s wait a minute and see… Still no.
It turns out that you have to earn your votes in a democracy. I know that seems weird but it’s true.
You’re using a strawman here. Man, why are logical fallacies so pervasive here? Never said you don’t need to earn votes. I said that not voting for a candidate in a two party duopoly in a swing state is the same as actually voting for candidate because the race is so close. You’re welcome to try again though.
No it’s a conspiracy, I asked time very nicely if I could use them as part of my joke.
And I am sorry if I went over your head but let me keep this simple. I don’t owe the Democratic party shit. If they aren’t worth voting for then people aren’t going to vote. And that’s nobody’s problem but the Democratic party. It’s not a vote for Trump, or Hitler, or the lizard people. Only a vote for them is a vote for them. And telling people they must vote for the Democrats or else they’re a dirty fascist is ridiculous. They’re going to laugh at you. And rightly so.
Actually yes they did vote trump, studies show that only 20% voted harris.
As opposed to how many Trump voters and how many non/third party voters?
Dearborn election results:
- Trump 42%
- Harris 36%
- Stein 18%
Love it when someones sea lioning leads to getting facts put in their face, beautiful. Chefs kiss.
They didn’t answer the question. Or they answered only the bit that backs their point and ignored the question.
How many people didn’t vote is the more important metric here.
Also using the phrase sea lioning for people pointing out that genociding a requisite party of a winning coalition in a swing state is bad electoral strategy is both pathetically sad, and disgusting.
Genocide is not something that can be sea looked, and if you think it is then you’re perfectly fine with genocide.
Sorry. My bad, the sea lioning is actually occuring in this comment I replied to.
for people pointing out that genociding a requisite party of a winning coalition in a swing state is bad electoral strategy is both pathetically sad, and disgusting.
Yet another bad faith strawman. For fucks sake lemmy, you all can’t be this bad at debating, quite amazing.
Genocide is not something that can be sea looked, and if you think
What a stupid thing to say, you can 100% sea lion about anything including genocide (hello? Holocaust deniers, Moron)
And they did answer the question you asked. Perhaps of you weren’t lazy and actually wrote out two sentences, it might not have been overlooked. The voter turnout was about 50% (53%) which was less than national average.
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I kept saying since last year Biden was throwing away his campaign but noooooooo, its the voters who are wrong.
Yeah people still don’t get it. It’s sad.
Wahhh, they didn’t cater directly to me for literally no reason as I’m not part of any significant voting bloc. Why would they personally attack me like that?
Anything to absolve yourself of the consequences for your stupid decision, right? Pathetic.
If they’re too insignificant to listen to, they’re too insignificant to blame.
significant voting bloc
loses every single swing state
Yeah no I’m sure we were a pissant minority made up of 5 people. There’s just no possible way the uncommitted movement actually contained a significant amount of Democrat constituents.
… what makes you think they didn’t vote for Kamala? I rolled through their last posts, nothing screams Trump.
… do you assume that because they criticized the democrats, they must be some form of evil? Why are you so gung-ho on defending the campaign. It really could’ve been a vastly better campaign, in so many ways.
Why are people not allowed to criticize the democratic party for botching this so badly?
do you assume that because they criticized the democrats, they must be some form of evil?
People are doing it now to Ozma, mgl, VikingHippie, Ensign Crab, and others.
Logical criticism = aiding the enemy
People are doing it now to Ozma, mgl, VikingHippie, Ensign Crab, and others.
Now? As though there has been some sort of pause.
Always have, its just non-stop. It’s a “now” as in “constant” not “now” as in new.
Sorry for being unclear.
Wahhh, they didn’t cater directly to me for literally no reason as I’m not part of any significant voting bloc. Why would they personally attack me like that?
That’s a lot of interesting ways to avoid saying the Democratic party, through the mechanisms of the US government, directly funded, gave intelligence to, aided and supported a terrorist government committing the first live steamed genocide.
Maybe you didn’t pay attention. Maybe you weren’t aware that was happening.
But it was.
And others were paying attention.
You don’t get to fake quote someone like that and not mention the word Genocide without everyone knowing you are intentionally avoiding the word, and why.
Damn, genocide, huh. Good thing you showed them genociders what’s what, now there will be no genocides at all
Did I?
You don’t know how I voted.
People everywhere were pointing out what an insane political tactic backing it was, along with the fact that it was certain to cost the Democrats the election.
Accusing people that point out that what they said would happen did happen of being the cause of the failure of the DNC is some of the weirdest Stockholm syndrome shit I’ve seen.
All to protect the people responsible for the current situation.
You don’t know how I voted.
It’s not an issue, they can just make it up. You see, everyone is stupid when you imagine that they have a stupid position and ignore any evidence to the contrary.
In that spirit, I’m pretty sure the person you’re talking to just took a shit on their ballot. So really this is all their fault.
calls themselves core voters
don’t vote
Sorry, did I miss something and the democrats actually won? No? Then they were pretty fucking important it seems.
And those ignored core voter issues were?
What do they have to worry about? Their guy won!
Maybe the Democrats shouldn’t have pretended Biden was still functioning for 3+ years instead of waiting until he died on the debate stage. Kamala running a dogshit 3 month campaign where she ran to the right of Biden didn’t help.
Materially maybe they shouldn’t have kicked 14+ million people off Medicaid by ‘ending’ COVID. That’s 3x their margin of loss and things like losing health coverage piss people off.
She lost by more than the margin of every third party vote combined.
Hard to muster a lot of sympathy for this mindset. SMH.
You of all people posting this without comment. The only thing funnier (and sadder) is “cautious optimism about Trump”.
Yeah ozma was one of the loudest mourh pieces on here against the dems and now he’s doing the shocked pikachu.
How did Ozma:
- Convince national wide democrats do this
- Say to vote for Trump
That never mattered to centrists.
I just find it wild that somehow da evil leftists somehow:
- Didn’t vote
- Voted third party
- Voted for Trump
- Personally made Harris say stupid things
- Personally made Trump say stupid things
- Anything else they don’t like
Something something enemy is both weak and strong
Hi, it’s me. Was I not correct in the Dems replacing Biden? Did I not say Harris would lose? Even if the uncommitted 100% voted for Harris, she still would have lost.
Wrong? Certainly not. But do you think spending the entire election demoralizing closest-to-the-left had no effect? (note: the iceberg of non-voters who aren’t directly counted in the uncommitted movement)
This is not to say that the DNC strategy was great, but I am not sure by what metric your own was much better. Particularly as even from the beginning it seemed like a gamble, requiring Harris to win while also having notably high 3rd-candidate turnout.
EDIT: Newer headlines make this even more obvious:
‘Very troubling’: Leader of ‘Abandon Harris’ movement now anxious about Trump appointees
Key leaders of the “Abandon Harris” movement, which encouraged voters to oppose Kamala Harris due to U.S. support for Israel during the Gaza war, are now expressing unease about Trump’s incoming administration.
concerns are growing over his Cabinet picks, such as Mike Huckabee and Tulsi Gabbard, which some see as troubling for Muslim communities.
Well, you had a shit ton of criticism for the Dems, but you seemed rather quiet about trump. Now you’re pushing cautious optimism? You really seem like a shill.
Now you’re pushing cautious optimism?
In OP’s defense, the description here is the subheading for the article. Thus me saying
posting this without comment
You know why I don’t criticize Trump?
Because he’s Trump.
The enemy has no reason to listen to your criticism. They’re the enemy. That’s one of the reasons they are the enemy.
I’m going to criticize the people on my side that do everything they can to lose, and criticize them when they try to appeal to the enemies base to win by moving closer to the enemies position.
Nothing about this is hard to understand, and I think the only reason you pretend not to is to lessen legitimate criticism against the people on your side that did all of that and then still lost
The people responsible for that loss? The campaign consults and contractors that drove the decisions that lead to this loss got most of the astoundingly large amounts of money the Harris campaign raised, and are trying to make sure they get more by getting hired again.
These are the people you are protecting with your arguments. It’s not LGBTQ people. It’s not minorities.
You’re protecting the people who got paid large amounts of money to do one job, win the election. And they don’t want to be blamed for the loss.
And thus you go around calling other people shills, which is just ironic.
I hate Trump and the GOP. F them. I’ve said it plenty of times. I’ve also said plenty of times I’m not a Democrat. I’m far left.
Just weird how people think you are despite never once saying anything positive about Trump other than “his stupidity is funny”.
Well, your criticism of the GOP wasn’t as much as the criticism of them dems. Or at least tor didn’t show up as often.
Not only that but you pushed third party shit right up until the election.
You gonna start up with that again?
What do you mean trump won?! We spent all our time fighting against Harris?! How did she lose?!
Had she condemned the genocide and promised to cut off military aid to Israel, I think a lot of young people who didn’t vote might have acted differently.
The silly thing in this thinking that that it would somehow only bring in voters.
I really can’t understand this comment.
Are you saying that criticizing the genocide would not have brought in young voters?
I’m saying that it would push away a different set of voters. For better or worse, there are people who still see this as Israel simply defending itself.
Well, they get what they voted for. I hope those “young people” like the result.
What about the braindead fascists who nominated loser kamalacaust?
What do they think? Have they changed their minds? Will they do it yet again in 2028?
Why not ask the people who are actually responsible for this pathetic showing?
What do they think?
Lesser evil. Least-worst choice. We’ve been over this. Keep up.
Nobody nominated her.
That was part of the problem. They cheated on the primary (look at the number of States that didn’t have other Democratic candidates other than Joe Biden, even though candidates meet all the requirements.)
And then, Biden resigns and instead of having any form of Democratic process over who the DNC would chose, Biden just says it would be Harris.
This from the same guy that the DNC knew, and covered up, wasn’t there mentally since 2021:
https://www.wsj.com/politics/biden-white-house-age-function-diminished-3906a839
But yeah, no one nominated Harris.
Now please remember both sides bad and its akshually a uniparty, so all voters are innocent uwu
It’s not just that both “parties” are bad. It’s that the whole slaver master system has always been genocidal and evil.
Joe Biden, personally and purposefully, aided and participated in an ongoing genocide, and Harris promised to not deviate from Bidens foreign policy.
You don’t get the votes of the people you’re genocide because maybe the other guy might also effect white people.
You don’t get the votes of the people you’re genocide because maybe the other guy might also effect white people.
Oh, cool, that was the issue with Trump, he’ll be affecting white people in the US. Good thing Muslim and Arab Americans, along with other minorities, haven’t explicitly been a target of his past attacks and promised future attacks.
Yeah, and they still didn’t find him more of a threat that then person actually committing genocide.
Correct that he did that. I don’t think you are wrong. Now take the next step and understand what Trump has also done and pledges to do for Isreal. They named an occupied area of Gaza after Trump, that might give you a hint.
You should stop thinking of your vote of a vote of support of the person’s policies, and instead a vote for you, who is the person you think you will have the most success in getting to do what you want to happen in the next four years? Who do you want to struggle against for the next four years? Set yourself up to win.
Now take the next step and understand what Trump has also done and pledges to do for Isreal
You are claiming Biden/Harris would be somehow better than trump on the genocide and you have no leg to stand on to support that.
All signs point to Trump being worse by a factor of ten in every respect, not just Gaza, betting he won’t is a losing bet. Could he be? Sure, that is possible, probable? No. At what cost are you willing to gamble?
In other words, you are entering the “Find Out” stage.
well aware. Last I checked you are entering “find out” as well arent you. And last I checked centrists were in charge of this epic debacle, all so they could take some bribes. Heck of a job.
You’re the one who doesn’t know whether Trump will be better or worse on Gaza.
I already know.
The genocide that was already happening was already a mile too far.
Genocide is binary.
Yeah, lesser evil voting has resulted in the greatest wealth inequality in world history, has regressed nearly all progress, and has had us have three dem candidates in a row be tougher on immigrants than any Republican in history.
To answer your little questions, the less competent more obviously evil one, clearly. You people aren’t smart enough to join in a struggle against Biden or the Dems, so maybe now you people will protest for Gaza. Maybe now you people will protest for immigrant rights. Maybe now you’ll protest for your own rights, for women’s rights. Because you people did none of that under Biden, despite Biden being trump 2.0.
Lesser evil is unquestionably bad. But it’s very in unnuanced to say that was the cause of everything. A factor, sure, but hyperbole doesn’t belie understanding.
Speaking of that, “you people” is very presumptuous. It shows me you don’t know what you are talking about, because all those things you say I’m not doing are blatantly false, but you have no way of even knowing that, so you are simply making categorical statements that aren’t based in facts. So either you are being disingenuous in argumentation on purpose, or have made a lot of assumptions to come to a decision in a vacuum and are unwilling to let outside empirical facts get in the way of your opinion.
Joe Biden, personally and purposefully, aided and …
let me stop you right there. I don’t care.
I just can’t give a single goddamned fuck about you, your people, or your problems. it’s not me, it’s you.
given the opportunity to continue a dialogue in a conducive environment you and your ilk decided to push against it. you won! we don’t get Harris! Now, we get Trump! no more discussions, now it’s full on genocide 24/7.
I don’t have the luxury to pander to you, so do us all a favor and take the win you desperately needed and shut up.
I just can’t give a single goddamned fuck about you, your people, or your problems. it’s not me, it’s you.
Democrats’ message to Muslims, family members of the undocumented, people who make minimum wage, and now trans people. Which will be the next group?
There is always another one.
A hated out group is a requirement for fascism.
Liberals.jpg on this dude.
The best part is all the other centrists in this thread who are acting like this guy isn’t saying the only part out loud.
Maybe the Democrats should have replaced the guy with a broken brain when they realized it instead of lying for years and only making the switch when it was undeniable.
The Harris campaign was such hot garbage that they lost by more of a margin than all 3rd party votes, but yeah keep blaming voters instead of learning anything.
Continue a dialogue? Gaza protestors were called Russian Agents, fired from their jobs, expelled from school on the eve of graduation, and arrested.
That’s not a fucking dialogue.
where? show me proof of this actually happening.
I doubt you can find a shred of it anywhere because it’s absolute bullshit.
edit: yeah didn’t think you could. BECAUSE IT NEVER HAPPENED
Its possible this greenknight person is medically unwell.
Possible? I’ve seen more coherent posts by Trump weirdos on facebook.
edit: yeah didn’t think you could. BECAUSE IT NEVER HAPPENED
I love how you edited your comment to add this. In caps even.
And there are two comments with tons of links because it was fucking common.
And you don’t bother to even admit you’re wrong. You’re too wrapped up in this opinion being your identity that you can’t admit you’re wrong.
Liberals when faced with reality: “Russian asset! Hamas terrorists!”
It was ‘full on genocide’, as you put it, already.
That’s the fucking problem.
Acquiescing to someone saying ‘please don’t wipe out my entire extended family’ is not a luxury. It’s the minimum required standard to not be a fucking Nazi.
This poem about Nazi Germany? It’s about you.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak for me.
it’s about me?
no, I don’t think so son.
I wanted to help. I wanted to stop the massacre in Israel. I wanted to pressure the Harris administration to stop supporting Israel. because I knew it’d be impossible to pressure a Trump administration to do anything.
but because you all couldn’t take your heads out of your assholes long enough to see it was raining, now we both get worse than nothing.
Now I can’t focus on stopping any genocide but the one that’s going to directly impact me.
as far as I care, all those people can burn and writhe in the streets, all because of your inability to look past your problems first and see a bigger picture.
congratulations, you win big boy!
I wanted to help.
how’d that go?
You never even got started with this mythical “helping”. Are you trying to help right now? Because you are not helping. Do you see a pattern here?
Now I can’t focus on stopping any genocide
You made it pretty clear that you were never going to focus on that. What exactly did you think locking every anti genocide voice out of the convention was about?
Are you trying to help right now? Because you are not helping.
No, I’m not. Because I was stabbed in the back while asking for your help.
how’d that go?
well, being stabbed sucks but I’ve learned.
Do you see a pattern here?
the pattern of abuse from you? yes, I have! that’s why I’m not helping anymore. I wouldn’t piss on your side if it was burning.
You wouldn’t have in the first place. That’s the fucking point.
The only people responsible for losing the election are Harris for running a dog shit campaign and her Democrat enablers who pretended Biden was still functioning for 3 years.
Quit crying and start directing the blame where it belongs.
scratched liberals amirite?
That’s a lot of writing to say ‘I was always a Nazi.’
This is more a Weimar Germany situation, in which the Stalinists accusing the SPD of being ‘social fascists’ led to the strengthening of the right-wing and the eventual victory of the Nazi Party.
let me stop you right there. I don’t care.
right back at you pal. Go ahead and throw your temper tantrum, but know that come 2028 without a united party neither progressives or centrists (you) can win an election without the other. The dem brand in general has never been weaker because of logic like yours that enabled a genocide and hubris about voters needs that too many voters wouldnt stand for… So buck the eff up, or take your own advice and:
shut up.
either way, start acting like you’re in a coalition, because thats reality whether you like it or not.
right back at you pal. Go ahead and throw your temper tantrum, but know that come 2028
won’t happen. you guys seriously don’t fucking get it do you? I can’t even imagine being so shortsighted that I can’t even see what the fuck is happening in the next six weeks.
either way, start acting like you’re in a coalition, because thats reality whether you like it or not.
I’ve always, ALWAYS, held firm that the US should be a protector of the disenfranchised or unprotected. after this election I realized I was wrong.
We don’t have to do anything of the sort. My charity is empty. My sympathy is gone. At this point, I’m focused 100% on fixing America and American interests.
If people in some far off land have to die so that we can give LGBTQA+ people a place to feel safe so be it.
If non-Americans have to die to protect the interests that empower America so that my kids can grow up in prosperity I will vote to kill them every single time now.
Make no mistake, it’s not out of a sense of national pride. it’s not from a source of hatred or prejudice. I will protect my national interests because I have been given no other choice but to impose American authority because American ideals are being eroded and attacked by those who beg for help.
you’re drowning in a sea of hatred, and I refuse to let you take me with you.
I don’t hate you, I just don’t care about you unless you’re American or support American interests.
If people in some far off land have to die so that we can give LGBTQA+ people a place to feel safe so be it.
If non-Americans have to die to protect the interests that empower America so that my kids can grow up in prosperity I will vote to kill them every single time now.
Least chauvinist ‘centrist’ democrat. In another era you would be seig heiling.
Give him a few weeks and he’ll be doing it in this era, and rationalizing it as the lesser evil.
If people in some far off land have to die so that we can give LGBTQA+ people a place to feel safe so be it.
Thanks for this wonderful summary of exactly what was wrong with many democrat supporters in this election campaign.
They don’t have to die do they? That is the whole fucking point. How many LGBT+ people do you think would agree with this? “Yeah lots of kids died but it’s worth it as long as I am protected.”
If you don’t care about Gaza it’s fine. That’s your business. But let’s not pretend it’s some trade for the benefit of a group of people you cannot possibly speak for.
If you don’t care about Gaza it’s fine. That’s your business. But let’s not pretend it’s some trade for the benefit of a group of people you cannot possibly speak for.
Particularly days after Biden signed anti-trans legislation.
they don’t have to die. but that’s not my problem anymore.
my problem now is a fascist dictatorship taking over my country because your movement couldn’t see more than one step ahead.
so here we sit. me with my problem that wasn’t a problem until you guys made it one, and you with your problem which I’m making not my problem anymore.
good luck doing jack shit about it without help now!
Anyone who defended Biden and Harris on this never made it their problem in the first place. They didn’t care.
my problem now is a fascist dictatorship taking over my country because your movement couldn’t see more than one step ahead.
Not my movement. I still advocated voting for Harris.
And it’s actually because “your” movement thought you could convince enough people to hold their nose and vote for someone they didn’t like but you were wrong.
It’s great for you that you don’t care about the genocide going on. I bet that’s nice. It’s not so great for you that your complete and utter inability to understand your countrymen led you into this disaster. Maybe listen to well intentioned critics next time?
I know it wasn’t you personally but you see what I mean.
This is literal Nazi speech.
I think the problem is that we teach that Nazi’s are bad, but don’t teach about their ideological positions.
Then we get people like you that hit the wall of cognitive dissonance when you hear your views are literally fascist. But fascists are bad. And you’re good, right?
And then we have the mental breakdowns and tantrums that you’re giving us. That’s the cognitive dissonance.
Same with that comment you made daring people post links proving that people suffered major consequences for their protesting and you preemptively edited it to say that they couldn’t.
Then they do, because it was a frequent and common occurrence and you don’t respond because you can’t admit, even to yourself, that they were right while there evidence is staring you in the face.
EDIT: fucking Nazi.
did you call me a Nazi?
You did say:
“If non-Americans have to die to protect the interests that empower America so that my kids can grow up in prosperity I will vote to kill them every single time now.”
To which I respond “Well, if the jack-boot fits…”
If you don’t want to be called a Nazi, you need to stop making fascist statements and this quote is LITERALLY fascist.
I didn’t call you one.
I’m identifying you as one when you are explicitly saying you are one based upon your comments.
If you don’t want people to correctly identify you as a Nazi, you need to learn what the Nazis believed and not believe those things.
In other words, you need to stop being a Nazi.
act like a Nazi, get called a Nazi I guess
We e been surviving 24/7 genocide for years, welcome to the party white boy. You get some too, maybe now you’ll finally help.
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Victim blaming? I don’t expect much from you fascist supporting racists, but that’s pretty low.
Don’t vote for genocide next time and maybe it won’t spread to you.
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when some poor neighbors come to help you
There never was a neighbor coming to help… Not only were you not coming to help, you were actively causing the fire in the first place. And now you arsonists are mad at the person whose house you burned down with their family in it.
You do understand that the Israelis couldnt have been so genocidal without Bidens help with weapons and in avoiding sanctions and intervention from the rest of the globe, right?
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We e been surviving 24/7 genocide for years, welcome to the party white boy. You get some too, maybe now you’ll finally help.
I love the part where I predicted that the talking point of the day would change to “It’s Good, Actually, that LGBT folk and POC are going to get genocided in America”
You’re just getting what you voted for others to experience. You should be happy.
You’re just getting what you voted for others to experience. You should be happy.
It’s hilarious that I called it, in a depressing sort of way.
Id rather you never voted for genocide, but you did, so you don’t get to complain that it’s happening to you as well.
You didn’t need to call it, we explicitly stated it would happen, genocide is genocide, it doesn’t stop until the genocidiers are gone, it doesn’t limit itself to one group. You had so many chances to save yourself from the cycle. So many chances to speak out. Guess what, now no one’s left to speak out for you. You voted to get rid of the untermench.
I love how triggered you guys get when someone says they don’t care about you or your problems.
I don’t give a shit about you, your people, and if you live or die. welcome to that party brown boy.
if you can’t even acknowledge the shortsightedness of your plan to force America into a fascist state then you quite frankly don’t deserve any more of my time.
IF I get to vote again, I’ll be voting for more “genocide” and it’s only to spite you and your pettiness.
edit: thank you everyone who’s participated in this routine filtering! you’ve all been blocked so I will never have to hear the absurd opinions from you. you’ve been a great audience and I look forward to blocking your future accounts as well!
Yep, and why are you different from the fascists you claim to hate?
This is why we don’t care you’re finally getting the consequences of your actions.
Yep, and why are you different from the fascists you claim to hate?
different because you took advantage of my kindness. you don’t get kindness anymore. you get nothing.
This is why we don’t care you’re finally getting the consequences of your actions.
you don’t care that you betrayed the trust of your greatest ally? you don’t care that you caused the problem that forced us to distance ourselves from the toxicity of your people?
great job. you stabbed us and want to bitch about us not wanting to help you anymore.
what kind of a sick son of a bitch does that?
your kindness? our greatest ally?
This is one of the most unhinged and not based in reality viewpoints that I have ever seen.
question, who was protesting out there with you?
better yet, who was trying to get a Harris win so that we could continue to push for reforms to stop the aid to Israel?
yes, kindness. yes, allies.
fuck off to whatever burnt out hole you crawled out of now though. You’ll never get my support again.
stab me once, shame on you. stab me twice shame on me.
With ‘allies’ like this who needs enemies!
IF I get to vote again, I’ll be voting for more “genocide”
yes, we are well aware that thats the current state of the democratic party, and thats exactly why they lost.
