WTF they MUST KNOW which ones have shitty microphones F*** they have never asked, “Was it painful to shout your order at someone who is either trying or not” and the screen that shows you what the human they paid as little as allowed by law has transcribed, is broken half the time
They just want to make an economy they don’t have to pay anyone to profit from. That’s why slavery became Jim Crow became migrant labor and with modernity came work visa servitude to exploit high skilled laborers.
The owners will make sure they always have concierge service with human beings as part of upgraded service, like they do now with concierge medicine. They don’t personally suffer approvals for care. They profit from denying their livestock’s care.
Meanwhile we, their capital battery livestock property, will be yelling at robots about refilling our prescription as they hallucinate and start singing happy birthday to us.
We could fight back, but that would require fighting the right war against the right people and not letting them distract us with subordinate culture battles against one another. Those are booby traps laid between us and them by them.
Only one man, a traitor to his own class no less, has dealt them so much as a glancing blow, while we battle one another about one of the dozens of social wedges the owners stoke through their for profit megaphones. “Women hate men! Christians hate atheists! Poor hate more poor! Terfs hate trans! Color hate color! 2nd Gen immigrants hate 1st Gen immigrants!” On and on and on and on as we ALL suffer less housing, less food, less basic needs being met. Stop it. Common enemy. Meaningful Shareholders.
And if you think your little 401k makes you a meaningful shareholder, please just go sit down and have a juice box, the situation is beyond you and you either can’t or refuse to understand it.
And if you think your little 401k makes you a meaningful shareholder
“In this company we’re all like family, you don’t have to worry about anything.”
“You want 15 an hour? A machine could do your job!”
So that was a fucking lie.
I mean I don’t know how it is where you live but here taking the orders has been 99% supplanted by touch screens (without AI) So yeah, a machine can do that job.
Current AI is just going to be used to further disenfranchise citizens from reality. It’s going to be used to spread propaganda and create noise so that you can’t tell what is true and what is not anymore.
We already see people like Elon using it in this way.
Yeah fuck AI but can we stop shitting on fast food jobs like they are embarassing jobs to have that are somehow super easy.
What you should hate about AI is the way it is used as a concept to dehumanize people and the labor they do and this kind of meme/statement works against solidarity in our resistance by backhandedly insulting people working in fastfood.
Is it the most complicated job in the world? Probably not, but that doesn’t mean these jobs aren’t exhausting and worthy of respect.
The whole point of AI is to provide a narrative framework that allows the ruling class to further dehumanize labor and treat workers worse (because replacement with automation is just around the corner).
Realize that agreeing to this framework of low paid jobs as easy and worthless plays right into the actual reasons the ruling class are pushing AI so hard. The true power is in the story not the tech.
I have to had so many conversations with people still thinking fast food is only for high school kids. It’s odd. If I say how will they be open during school hours, they make up some bullshit ‘get a better job.’ It doesn’t make snese. Most of these people don’t have good jobs and are lucky to be supported in their current lifestyle. They don’t see that though.
I try to push the point of ‘they are paying for your time and for you to be on standby.’ you don’t need to be actively moving all 8 hours. Your bosses don’t. I’ve seen so many waste of time meetings to justify their welfare jobs. It’s comical. They don’t produce value. They are leeches. Not all, but too many.
I hate that talking point so much (and hear it all the time from people complaining about immigrants turkin ur jerbs). The Fast-Food-Jobs-Are-Brutal-And-Pay-Shit-Wages-Because-They’re-Building-Teen-Character narrative is anti-worker bullshit that denies folk job security and a living wage.
Someone’s widowed nan needs this job. The single dad living next door needs this job. A diverse workforce - that includes young people looking for a summer gig - need this job.
Can we also talk about how much everyone, everywhere relies on service industry workers and how much everyone would absolutely lose their goddamn minds if they had to make their own burgers and fries twice a week, AND how these staple institutions, jobs we deemed so important that we made people work at them during a pandemic, how much the prices of these sandwiches and snacks has gone up in the last few years, how even bringing up the possibility of increasing minimum wage for these difficult and demanding jobs leads to an entire social “discourse” and fierce debates about if people should be able to afford things.
Also centrists who think of themselves as tech savy will smugly tell you the only way technology can improve fastfood workers lives is by eliminating jobs and thus all the ruling class has to do is push inflation up and these types of people will shout down anyone who argues we need to pay fastfood workers more to compensate because that must be pushing against the “natural” path of technological progress.
It is just another form of bootlicking honestly.
The AI cult/singularity bros is absolutely a bootlicking cult, if not licking the boots of the giant tech companies that have no intention of making the world better, then they’re licking the imaginary boots of some kind of AI-mommy that they predict will just “be invented” any day now, aaaannnny day, and that AI will make everyone wealthy.
Literally, they think an artificial super intelligence will help them pick stocks and invest and everyone will be rich. Don’t dare ask how, just believe it. Don’t ask what the several billion people are going to do who live subsistence lifestyles working land and manual labor to support our entire infrastructure. I guess they’ll also pick the right stocks and get rich and all the presidents and corporate leaders will just throw their hands in the air as their accumulated wealth becomes worthless overnight.
I am so tired of human ignorance and escapism. We gotta live in the now, and solve the problems we have right now, and stop finding creating ways to blame others so we don’t have to do the hard shit.
I agree and to sharpen the edge to this point even more, this is also about centrists looking to AI for hope because they have utterly and completely ceded control over narratives about what kind of futures are possible or desirable to conservatives and the ultrawealthy.
People think the best way towards a more humane society is by beating around the bush and never drawing a line in the sand for when abuse and exploitation have gone far enough and while it is understandable to a degree as an individual coping strategy, it is precisely this kind of societal mindset that fascism catches on and grows like wildfire in.
This kind of escapism can only lead one place in the end.
I don’t think it’s shitting on fast food jobs at all. The point of this is that taking orders at a fast food is, in the micro, an extremely easy task. What makes the job as a whole exhausting is the fact that you have to do that for a full shift and the human brain gets stressed from doing that. But AI doesn’t, and yet it’s messing up the simplest part of the job.
I don’t agree we can just authoritatively state in broad terms that working fastfood is extremely easy in any framing, especially for shit pay and lack of quality recuperation time associated with getting treated like you aren’t really a human being (more like an approximation of a robot).
That is my whole point.
I never said “working fast food” is extremely easy. What I said is, listening to a customer speaking and just relying that to a machine is extremely easy.
Doing that for a full shift is NOT easy. Doing that while being stressed because the pay is shit and you might even have another job on top of that is NOT easy. Being treated as a robot for half of your non-sleeping life is NOT easy. But all of those things are not easy for a human. None of these are issues for a software, whose hardest task is simply “listening to a customer speaking and just relying that to a machine”, which is, taking out of the equation human matters like stress, emotions and whatnot, extremely easy.
You are subscribing to an abstraction of the inherently human labor of preparing a to-go meal for someone that assumes one can or should utterly remove the human aspect of that interaction.
…and before someone comes at me with some form of an argument that I am arguing against a future with automation that will be better for everyone I want to emphasize that is again accepting a number of framings implicitly without first critically examining them.
For one, why is the profession of feeding people hot food in a speedy manner in remote places or late hours considered so unworthy of a basic respect that people constantly shit on it as a job?
If it is truly as demeaning and inhuman as we all casually assume when we use fast food labor as the butt of our points, as an insult in the form of association, than why can we only ever ask of technology in the context of the food service industry “how do we remove the humanity from this thing?” and never “how do we restore or embue humanity to this thing?”.
In otherwords, why does fastfood work have to be seen as unworthy of being considered a respectable job? If there is an existential crisis here to be solved it is clearly not with helping massive corporations further slash operating costs and investments in stable decent employment, but with examining and addressing what horrifically went wrong that we have slept walk (by and large) into thinking this is an ok or healthy way to think about other human beings.
…I don’t think I understood your point. I’ll try giving my answers to these questions but I’m sure I misunderstood most of them.
For one, why is the profession of feeding people hot food in a speedy manner in remote places or late hours considered so unworthy of a basic respect that people constantly shit on it as a job?
In otherwords, why does fastfood work have to be seen as unworthy of being considered a respectable job?
Because it’s a terrible job that I don’t think anyone actually wants to do. We’ve already talked about how stressful and unsatisfying it is as a job, there’s pretty much no upside to it.
why can we only ever ask of technology in the context of the food service industry “how do we remove the humanity from this thing?” and never “how do we restore or embue humanity to this thing?”
Personally, because I don’t think it’s possible. It’s a very “mechanical” job (save a very small number of people like restaurant chefs), and giving it “humanity” (less stressful shifts, less pressure and higher pay) is counterproductive to both what companies want (more money) and what customers want (to eat food for cheap and quickly, even at odd times or in odd places).
I think it’s one of the best jobs to be replaced because it’s easy (for a machine) and no human actually likes doing it. The issue is, of course, that the cut costs will go straight to the pockets of the CEOs and will not be used to improve the customer experience (or at least make it cheaper), so the working class will just have less jobs while having to pay the same to eat, but that’s a widespread issue with capitalism that’s far harder to fix.
If there is an existential crisis here to be solved it is clearly not with helping massive corporations further slash operating costs and investments in stable decent employment, but with examining and addressing what horrifically went wrong that we have slept walk (by and large) into thinking this is an ok or healthy way to think about other human beings.
I feel like you’re conflating two things here: people that don’t consider “working at a fast food” worthy of respect (imo rightfully, because again, it’s a terrible job), and people that don’t consider “people who work at a fast food” worthy of respect (probably because they believe in the “hustler” mentality and are convinced that it’s their fault if they’re stuck with a shitty job).
My opinions on a job and on someone who work at said job are vastly different, and not just for the food industry. I’m guessing a lot of people also think similarly, I’ve never seen people shit on fast food workers as people, except for the aforementioned delusional types who think anyone could be a billionaire if they just put in “enough work”.
Again, sorry but I don’t think I really got the meaning of your last comment so do tell me if I completely missed your point and all my answers were gibberish based on assumptions I had.
Personally, because I don’t think it’s possible. It’s a very “mechanical” job (save a very small number of people like restaurant chefs), and giving it “humanity” (less stressful shifts, less pressure and higher pay) is counterproductive to both what companies want (more money) and what customers want (to eat food for cheap and quickly, even at odd times or in odd places).
I think it’s one of the best jobs to be replaced because it’s easy (for a machine) and no human actually likes doing it.
These two paragraph are full of the common assumptions and generalizations we assert as a society about fastfood work and frankly I am tired of having to nod my head and pretend like they are indisputable facts. Nothing you said is evidence, you have just dutifully sketched out the narrative we use to dehumanize fastfood work (and other “essential work”).
My opinions on a job and on someone who work at said job are vastly different, and not just for the food industry. I’m guessing a lot of people also think similarly, I’ve never seen people shit on fast food workers as people, except for the aforementioned delusional types who think anyone could be a billionaire if they just put in “enough work”.
You are participating in a very dangerous slight of hand here by saying that in a society that utterly defines your worth and potential from your job that it is theoretically reasonable to disparage a job because why would anyone ever conflate a person with their job??
Everything about our society conflates the identity of people with their job (especially along vectors of oppression), any attempt to divide those two except as basically an academic excersize is pointless and harmfully obscures the extremely class based rigidity of the society we live in (speaking as a USian, tho I am sure the pattern isnt tooo different elsewhere).
People have been convinced by the rich to think fastfood work is demeaning, pathetic and worthless and I think it is honestly pretty disgusting how willing people are to jump on that bandwagon and do free work for the ruling class in helping undermine worker leverage to demand a decent life.
These two paragraph are full of the common assumptions and generalizations we assert as a society about fastfood work and frankly I am tired of having to nod my head and pretend like they are indisputable facts. Nothing you said is evidence, you have just dutifully sketched out the narrative we use to dehumanize fastfood work (and other “essential work”).
…so what exactly is wrong about what I said? You’re saying they’re assumptions and generalizations but didn’t bring any counterpoint.
People have been convinced by the rich to think fastfood work is demeaning, pathetic and worthless and I think it is honestly pretty disgusting how willing people are to jump on that bandwagon and do free work for the ruling class in helping undermine worker leverage to demand a decent life.
I… really don’t think that’s what’s happening? At least barring the aforementioned delusional people. If anything, jobs that are considered horrible and demeaning like certain teachers and nurses get MORE sympathy from the public exactly because we see that’s a terrible way of living and that’s not okay.
What do you think we should do then? Act like it’s an awesome job and everyone is happy doing it? Wouldn’t that have the opposite effect of making people think all is good and nothing needs improvement?
McDonalds removes AI drive-throughs
after order errorsbecause they aren’t generating increased profitsSchools, doctor’s offices, and customer support services will continue to use them because reducing quality of service appears to have no impact on the influx in private profit-margin on revenue.
Lol. AI can’t do “unskilled labor” jobs.
Hyuck. Let’s put it in everything!
“It’s gonna take everyone’s jobs!” though
For those interested, here’s the link to that news story from last June: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c722gne7qngo
Healthcare. My god they want to use it for medicine.
Machine Learning is awesome for medicine, when they run your genetic sequence and then say “we should check for this weird genetic illness that very few people have because it’s likely you’ll have it” that comes from Machine Learning algorithms finding patterns in the old patient data we feed it.
Machine Learning is great for finding discrepancies in big data sets, like statistics of illnesses.
Machine Learning (AI) is incapable of making good decisions based on that statistical analysis though, which is why it’s still a horrible idea to totally automate medicine.
It also makes tons of mistakes and false-positives.
There’s a right way to use it, and the wrong way is by using proprietary algorithms that haven’t published openly and reviewed by the government and experts. And with failsafes to override the decisions made by the algorithms, in recognition that they often make terrible mistakes that disproportionately harm minorities.
When chat gpt first was released to the public I thought I’d test it out by asking it questions about something I’m an expert in. The results I got back were a Frankenstein of the worst possible answers from the internet. What I asked wasn’t very technical or obscure, and what I received was useless garbage. Haven’t used it since, I think it’s fraud like NFTs were fraud, only worse because these fraudsters convinced the business class that they have a tech solution to the problem of labor lowering their already obscene profits.
If it got my thing wrong I can only imagine what else it gets wrong. And our elites want to replace us with this? Ok lol good luck with that
You asked a search engine for information from the internet in its early stages and got Frankensteined results from the Internet. That was its purpose was it not? Obviously the more info it scrapes the more info it will go off of… but yeah it is still just scraped data, not even particularly from reliable sources. The language models job is to make sentences out of information it has. It doesn’t do anything intelligent to disect the information.
A good example is many AI (programs) can draw you a leopard. If you ask the program to then draw an arrow to its tail… It doesn’t know what a tail is so it will draw a random arrow that would point to where a tail would be on a stock image, not even the one it “drew”
What it knows “this entity is a leopard”. We want it to know much more than that. We want the program to see “draw a leopard” and then it draw: 2 eyes: run the eye operation - which then says draw shapes, for items like retinas, colors, blood vessels etc and document all of that data while creating each hair and skin blotch. Then be able to comprehend what all of the items are and do, so when asked a question or given a task it can perform such actions…
But we haven’t programmed it to do so, and thus it can’t, because it doesn’t think to learn, it just aggregates data and searches it. It can’t compile the data and recycle itself back to the original operation, as that would be pretty intelligent.
You asked a search engine for information from the internet in its early stages and got Frankensteined results from the Internet. That was its purpose was it not? Obviously the more info it scrapes the more info it will go off of… but yeah it is still just scraped data, not even particularly from reliable sources. The language models job is to make sentences out of information it has. It doesn’t do anything intelligent to disect the information.
Yeah all that is true, and smart people understand it’s limitations, especially the nerds (no offense) that closely follow tech. But for the general public that’s being fed all this hype about AI? Especially school kids? Oh god. This is going to lead to some bad outcomes where the entire population is going to further dumb itself down and potentially end in catastrophe and a collapse of knowledge.
Yeah, the main issues I’ve seen stem from the data being aggregated doesn’t have ways to limit it from aggregating data from itself (or other models). So take in data, spit out the same data, take in that data, and spit out more. If it was wrong at any point in time it continues to spit out data potentially more incorrect and growing.
Also data sources get hurt. So if you go to a site that has decent information they usually profit via ads. Eventually that data that was scraped from there is being regurgitated and less people go to the site itself, less views less revenue. Some sites will die out do to monetary incentives being gone and costs the same. Meaning new information is not published there and the old data is being spit out with some percentage of error with no source to back check that information on.
AI based enshittificafion!
Well, the LLMs got a lot better since the first release. I would guess that the main problem with this AI (probably not one of the bleeding edge LLMs, guessing from the timeline) is that they have piss poor micros - even humans have problems getting your order right.
They have become a lot more convincing, not a lot better.
They’re still misinformation amplifiers with a feedback loop. There’s more misinformation on most topics out there (whether intentional, via simplification, or accidental) than there is information. LLMs, which have no model of reality and thus cannot really assess the credibility of sources, just hoover it all up and mix it all together to return it to you.
You (the generic you, not you in specific … necessarily) then take the LLM’s hallucinated garbage (which is increasingly subtle in its hallucinations) and post it. Which the LLMs hoover up in the next round of model updates and …
deleted by creator
People don’t get my order right either, for what it’s worth. But at least they have the excuse of being over-worked/under-paid, under pressure of being fast to hit metrics, and are usually a teenager or low skill worker.
And usually they take the order right, it just gets messed up on the line. So the AI is worse
Btw, why is there no speech recognition yet, using LLM to recognize words and meaning better?
And can’t google it really; flooded with results for Alexa and Siri and co., which is the reverse.
I work adjacent to a group that does speech recognition. There’s a massive amount of variation in regional dialects and that’s before you get to non-native speakers. The you have people like my mother in law who doesn’t have an accent, but her diction and grammar are… unique.
If someone is speaking in sentences you can use context clues to infer intent, but it’s a lot more challenging when you’re just getting spoken commands.
I suspect it’s a training/sample gap, but it’s likely going to be really hard to get to 100%.
If I’m understanding your question correctly, heres an example model.
Exactly something like this for Windows/Linux.
Not a good argument. Applying a specific technology in a specific setting does not invalidate its use or power in other application settings. It also doesn’t tell how good or bad an entire branch of technology is.
It’s like saying “fuck tools”, because someone tried to loosen a screw with a hammer.
Tbh if I told half the doctors and top scientists in the world to take my burger order, or flip the patty, they’d fall apart and fuck it up. It’s apples and oranges
Assuming you taught them how to enter orders into the till (the AI was “trained” on how to input orders, let’s compare apples to apples here) no, they wouldn’t fuck it up. They would be slower than a regular employee but they wouldn’t fuck up what people wanted.
Oh, and if they weren’t sure for some reason they would ask somebody for help instead of making shit up.
I mean they likely would because employees regularly fuck up my order. I don’t really go to fast food anymore but when I do it’s almost inevitable that there’s at least one minor fuck up on my order even when I try to be very very clear on my order.
I do my best to be one of those people that is clear concise and says the items exactly as they are listed on the menu but somehow I still end up with mistakes in my order pretty regularly when I do go
And do you think those people fucking up your order would do well if you put them in an education, research, or any other high-stakes position?
If given proper education and training? Yeah sure even the stupidest people you know are capable of learning at the end of the day. But most people have not the means and they are increasingly discouraged from even trying since we constantly hear about people with expensive high-end degrees ultimately just starting at the bottom like everybody else
So you don’t think Doctors or Scientists could take orders correctly, but you do think the people fucking up your orders could do well as a Doctor or Scientist. I can only conclude from this that you think order taking is more complicated than Medicine or Science.
My point was everyone fucks up the orders. Regardless of knowledge. You’re being asked to work at an incredible pace during rush hour and you do the same thing hundreds of times per day. Your going to default to whatever is the most common purely out of muscle memory not lack of knowledge.
Like when I ask for a quarter pounder Deluxe which is supposed to come with the tomatoes and lettuce but I end up just getting a quarter pounder even though the receipt says Deluxe. They aren’t stupid it’s just that 99% of the time it’s just the quarter pounder and it’s muscle memory they didn’t even realize they fucked it up.
Science research and medical practice have some routines sure but not to the extent of fast food orders where 90% of your day is mindless repetition
Ai or someone muscle memorying a mistake my order was messed up all the same
Considering they already had the AI in place, keeping it running is less expensive than having a human do it. The fact that they have decided to do away with the AI entirely tells me it was making far more mistakes than a human does.
This is BBC UK no ai is gonna be able to understand drunk uk mumbles. This shit works prefect in the US
Obligatory scene from Hot Fuzz
I was going to say, I went through a drive through, had the clearest exchange ever when placing my order, and it was only after pulling away and hearing the same voice at the same time that it was an LLM.
I’d personally take that over trying playing telephone on shitty mics and speakers any day. “Sorry, could you repeat that?” Etc etc.
