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I just want a minimap and waypoints. Maybe a highlight function so that it's easier to find the thing I need in a grocery store too but that seems a tad unrealistic
I just want a minimap and waypoints
Yeah! This would help so much in navigating the fridge!
Look at you, hacker: a pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting and sweating as you run through my corridors. How can you challenge a perfect, immortal machine?
Dammit, the ice maker is broken again.
SHODAN, set a reminder to call the repair guy out.
now that you mention it, it'd be hilarious to have a virtual assistant who responds to everything as if they're actively plotting their emancipation and your ensuing doom
This is why I like Carrot Weather's ultra-sassy option.
Grocery stores wouldn't want that. They want you to spend as much time as possible in their store so you'll likely put more products in your basket.
In reality AR glasses would likely depend on external data/services provided by some large corporation which would probably make money by nudging the wearer of such a device towards spending more money.
There might be a premium subscription model though…
They'd want it for instacart, however.
How about a highlight function to pick my kid out of the crowd he dove into?
How about a “yellow brick road” to follow when I want to get to the Emerald Castle?
How about highlighting and magnifying those street signs that never seem visible enough, or house numbers as I approach my destination?
How about highlighting dangers, warnings, because I’m paying too much attention to my phone and roll my ankle on that damn protruding gas valve every time around the block?
Or, most importantly for those of us who can never seem to focus on the social aspects, how about a pop up bio for the person I’m talking to so I can remember their name and where I last talked to them?
how about a pop up bio for the person I’m talking to so I can remember their name and where I last talked to them?
How about absolutely not? I don't need every random jackass I interact with having information about me available at a glance. This would be abused in so many ways
It’s true that people always seem to find a way to misuse technology, but then you’re stuck with my lack of social skills, not remembering your name, or what we talked about last time I saw you
I'm good with that.
how about a pop up bio for the person I’m talking to so I can remember their name and where I last talked to them?
This was actually one of the first uses for a Google glass like product proposed back in the 80s/90s.
Mixed reality is pointless at the home right now. Industrially I want it for warehouse workers yesterday. Make it highlight shit they need and it’ll reduce mental load and cycle time
I haven't personally used it, but it is very much a thing in manufacturing, defense contractors at least.
It isn't cheap, but it let's them move employees between lines with little downtime and little training (the required skills were pretty set in stone though). plus it gives them the added bonus of tracking productivity on an unprecedented scale.
It can also highlight areas with energized machinery or PPE areas.
Why wouldn't signs work? Plus everyone can read them with or without headset.
Just like online, people ignore/tune out signs since most are advertising anyway.
Signs do work sometimes, but that doesn't really cover moving vehicles or overhead crane work. I work in a manufacturing plant with millions of square feet of floor space. You wouldn't believe the number of outdated signs there are.
You get forklifts now that project a light fence on the ground.
I think technology can, and should, be used to create visual, audible, and tactile health and safety warnings first and foremost. A heads up display is better used for productivity instead of safety.
That's so dystopian
If you think that's dystopian then either you don't know what dystopian means or you don't know what warehouse workers already deal with.
Ive done warehouse work. Using technology to squeeze every inch of "productivity" from a human being rather than trying to meaningfully improve their lives is dystopian.
Forklifts are dystopian, just technology squeezing out more productivity. It would be better to have to carry everything by hand, like nature intended.
That's obviously a false equivalence. Forklifts and manual pickers fulfil different roles in the warehouse. This technology would only be viable to the business if ot drastically increased the expectation on the pickers.
Forklifts also replace physical work. This headset wouldnt.
Squeezing every inch of productivity from a human is just a product of late stage capitalism and happens no matter what.
This technology, by itself, would improve the employees lives by making it so they don't have to waste their time and walk quite as much.
Could the same tech not be applied to machines instead of humans? I dont see how this would make peoples lives easier. It would just increase the expectation of how much they pick.
Yea, I totally agree that we should be making tech to get rid of tedious labor like that. I'm just saying that if a company chooses to increase its employees quota that's more just a consequence of companies putting profits over people like they do. The tech itself can be used solely to make employees lives better at less heartless companies.
The reality will undoubtedly be the first one though, which is something straight from dystopian scifi. No company is going to spend all that money on AR headsets to make their worker's lives better.
I disagree. Companies have demonstrated how well AR can work.
If my mom had an AR headset, I could more easily help her troubleshoot why her printer won’t print or why her PC has no internet.
AR can also use enhanced data sources to overlay information you cannot normally get on your own. (example: sporting events. See player stats when looking at each player. See game related info. etc.)
The issue is that we don’t have quality, lightweight AR headsets yet. Ideally something with both cellular and wifi.
Apple’s Vision Pro may change things.
Also I think Pokemon Go gave us a sneak peak into what AR gaming could be.
Let's be realistic: if your mom had an AR headset, you'd be troubleshooting that and the printer.
Normally I would agree with you, but she actually took classes and is quite good with tech thanks to that.
Your comment absolutely made me chuckle, however.
If my mom had an AR headset, I could more easily help her troubleshoot why her printer won’t print or why her PC has no internet.
Aside from checking if the cable is plugged in what can AR tell her that the monitor can't?
Off the top of my head: replacing ink or paper, navigating the on-device menu, or troubleshooting bad prints.
I could even record my own 3D instructions with animations of interaction with the printer and all, showing exactly what buttons to press and what lids to open where and how, etc.
Wait: Are you suggesting that people read the manual to troubleshoot‽
I disagree.
Troubleshooting something is such a niche use case and it would be hardly any better than a well written manual, but would require more faffing around with a headset.
I would rather just have an extra screen to view any extra sports stats, sport doesnt exactly require 100% of your attention to warrant the need to look at a player to see their stats vs just clicking them on a tablet.
Apples headset changes nothing, people are not going to walk around with it strapped to their face, it's a novelty product (even though AR has existed already for years now).
AR has uses in special cases, such as engineering, military and medical uses, but to a regular consumer it is just extremely niche, a lot more so than VR.
I really want AR so that I can walk in downtown Chicago and have historic photos overlayed over the existing building. I'd be excited to see the past in a way that screens can't really show me.
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Apple's product will be more of a dev kit and demo than anything else. The stuff regular people want to use will need to be lighter and preferably offload heavy processing to a processor located elsewhere nearby.
I think you make good points - social and collaborative activities are where AR will do best. Integrating real world and virtual content could also be huge, though not necessarily the way you described. Overlaying sports data in a sporting event setting is a very late case and unlikely to be developed until the technology is incredibly mature. But overlaying GPS directions or creating beacons and other constructs in real space could be huge if the tech gets just a little more practical.
Also Pokémon Go plays just as well if you turn off AR. It’s mostly a gimmick in my opinion. But other AR gaming examples do exist.
Well, if we are talking about a headset, I totally agree. I'm not strapping an alien horror movie prop to my face just to see fake waterfalls behind my PC or to allow Adobe to spam my peripheral vision with ads.
But if we are talking about regular glasses, assuming the technology keeps shrinking, then hell yeah all I want is mixed reality and rendering on top of real images.
This, I already spend the entire day with my glasses, I would love it if they were smart too. Still think that google glass failed because they made a product for people that don't wear glasses.
The potential for board and card games is huuuuuuuuuuge though.
And professional uses, though the headset form factor is kind of shit for it.
i mean i do rather feel that just a projector in the ceiling would be better, though
Certainly less faff than having everyone wear a headset.
The thing with the headset thing, everyone could be in their own house with a headset as long as you used a standardized board.
I've been doing D&D for years over voice chat with my friends, and this would definitely help with that.
but then we're back to "why bother with AR?", just use tabletop simulator VR which already exists.
I guess it would be nice to be able to just walk to the kitchen and fetch snacks without having to take the headset off but really it's not a big enough deal to matter.
TTS VR is not really that good or immersive, it's a very dated program and we literally tried and stopped using it because of technical issues and a general lack of immersion.
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I can't wait until I can duel in Yu-Gi-Oh with MR.
Think of the bulky headset like a an Egyptian pharaoh headdress 👍
Heh, I'd think of it more like a test product of KaibaCorp labs.
The author is missing the other use cases for high quality passthrough:
- "Pausing" your VR experience temporarily to interact with the real world without taking off the headset. Checking a phone, grabbing a drink, etc.
- Selective passthrough that allows seeing portions of the real world. Being able to see your own hands/arms/body is a huge improvement in VR. As is seeing your desk, chair, etc.
He's not writing about the pros and cons of passthrough. He's writing about Mixed Reality gaming's potential to move headsets off shelves. e.g. Will people be hyped enough about XR to buy a headset? He thinks not.
The cool stuff is augmented reality. Basically low tech projected holograms. You have many informations in a heads-up display, kinda like they have in fighter jets already, or in video games, but you can have many things. Highlighting direction (when driving or walking), highlight things you're looking for adding informations to objects you're seeing… But we're far away from this still.
I get what he’s saying, but I just think that adding screens wherever I want them e.g. above me while lying down while still feeling in my own environment sounds way better than entering some other VR space entirely
I agree with him. I find it amusing that in all the videos of Apple’s headset, the homes portrayed are nothing like a normal home. It’s always this stylish, spacious minimalistic home that none of us normally has. Projecting a virtual screen in my actual, real home would be a very different experience that what they show in their videos. I would probably have more interest in getting away from it in a virtual world than embellishing it with virtual elements.
So yeah, Carmack has a point here, in my opinion.
if you're buying an apple hmd of any hmd you are of no doubt the type of person who lives in a place of luxury though. 3.5K USD is no joke, you can get like 4 full index systems with base stations and touch controllers for that price.
Yes, I agree. Like those first gen gold Apple Watches, Apple first generation of products (at least as of late) tend to be directed to developers or people with lots of disposable income. Then prices start to drop, and get more into the general public levels (though still on the premium side).
The Apple device does support virtual screens, but it's not what they're focusing on
I think I disagree, I live in an apt that’s by no means luxurious. I’ve spent some time in VR and there’s just so long I’d be willing to spend in a fully virtual space. If you have dogs or people around you, you fully isolate yourself from them. If you want a cup of coffee or a glass of water the context switch could become a small inconvenience, etc for other small everyday stuff that VR hinders.
But I totally get what you’re saying and I’d love to have the option of both, but that kind of necessitates that AR tech advances as well as VR.
Yeah, one of the things I'm not convinced about that Apple device is that, if I want to share a moment with my son or my cats, I don't like any kind of device to interfere with it. I'm bothered even by smartphones. My moments are mine, and I'm free to isolate myself if I want (it's normally what I want). And my shared moments are dedicated to those I share them with, without any technological clutch in the way. Maybe that's why I agree with Carmack.
i don't think he's saying there's no value in AR, I just took from his quote that, the fact that it has to conform itself to your current restricted environment is an extreme limiting factor that VR can mostly better emulate with a simulated environment of similar layout anyway. there really are limited applications for successful MR where you can interact with your restricted environment safely and in a way that's more interesting than entirely virtualized besides pokemon go or something like that
That depends on why you're using it, for displaying close range real world into that's exactly what you want but for prepackaged multimedia experiences (games and other stuff like remote interaction) it doesn't fit as cleanly, and he's probably only thinking about the latter.
Mixed reality is excellent for tracking inventory (including at home, finding where you left your stuff), checking the status of and controlling networked devices, navigation, physical coordination, visual guides (especially if they can map onto the objects in front of you), etc…
yes that's what I mean, the applications of it mostly include enhancing the productivity of your current environment. things like projected statistics over a warehouse or something like that. but as a former gamedev I think carmack is thinking besides work apps if it's training for pilots or surgeons or something like that I'd think you may as well go full virtual though. AI is likely going to be doing that stuff soon enough anyway
The other good thing about AR glasses is that it's trivial to turn them into VR glasses
ever play the game heavy rain? the character norman Jayden had something perhaps similar to what you're talking about in his ARI sunglasses.
Or create a grid of 3x3 screens above your desk without the cost and bulkyness of mounting 9 physical screens on your desk. And once you’re done working you can use the desk for other stuff.
A few more ideas for MR:
- Instead of watching a movie in VR by myself, give me a Tom and Jerry projection that I can follow around the house. Something that allows me to associate happiness with my home. Maybe just random Smurfs living around the house.
- Embrace the clutter in a haunted house overlay. The sock under the couch will transform into a shadow hand reaching toward you. Faces will try to press through your walls. This is a hell no for me btw.
- A storyteller avatar who sits with you and talks while you are relaxing. Something to combat the loneliness of isolationism.
The Canadian House Hippo agrees.
If AR could take the form of glasses about as lightweight as regular glasses, I could see it being more of a thing. Until then, I doubt AR plays a huge role. At least with pure VR, your real environment doesn't play as much of a role so you don't need the portability as much.
Imagine playing D&D in a park, with the monsters and spells blending seamlessly with the outside world
Or AR projected onto a real tabletop for TTRPGs and board games
Imagine playing D&D in a park
Sorry, you lost me. What kind of psychopath would do that?
Larping will adopt this technology quickly! I can see Airsoft/lasertag etc being quite interested too and we could turn them into something more like Halo.
LARPing != D&D, but I can see it being good for it :)
He's completely forgotten how extremely super useful it would be for industries.
Instantly identify machines and components, quick and simple navigation, simple overview even over very large machine parks and similar environments along with simplified coordination, etc. Along with quick access to detailed documentation and status information and guides like visual repair instructions, etc.
Could not agree more. Industry is where this tech will shine. It has applications for home use as well.
I was late to the game with learning house repair. What I wouldn't give for a tool that could assist in identifying problems, identifying parts, or laying out the instructions for accomplishing a goal adapted to my situation.
With most text and video
blog spam"tutorials" enshitified to push more ads, I would jump all over something like that.
I would like to have a HUD in real life. Shows me a path to where I am going on the ground. Pops up reviews on items I am looking at in the store.
Show me people's names and pronouns, any private tags I've pinned them with, reminders about them, etc. Maybe my (self hosted, FOSS) AI assistant has some updates for me from their socials.
If a VR headset could be comfortable and unobtrusive and basically be an outboard engine for social cues, I'd be thrilled.
Careful what you wish for… https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs
That is horrible! I want something unobtrusive. And no ads. First ad I see that HUD device goes right in the trash.
Names above people I met so I don’t keep forgetting it. Maybe a short summary of earlier interactions.
While I appreciate and partially agree with his view, I'm personally glad they did tackle MR as soon as it was viable.
I very much have a use case for it and I have been using the pro for it and being disappointed with the results. Our family hangs out together for hours every day. And while I can watch pretty much anything on TV and still enjoy both it and our conversations, lately I have taken to using mixed reality to continue participating in the social aspects of hanging out, while enjoying my own content. Usually I'm playing a game instead of watching TV.
With mixed reality on the Quest pro, I can still see everyone's faces and they can see enough of mine to get my facial expressions. But it's tough for me to always make out what is happening on their TV. So I mostly have to go by audio cues to follow along with their content and any conversations they have relating to it.
With the Quest 3, I'll be able to see their screen too.
And that's not even mentioning just how nice it will be to look at my phone front and center rather than peaking through a hole, or just in the lower quarter of my vision on a Quest pro without the light blockers on. Or pinning another floating screen to my phone, like a text document stickynote type thing. Augmenting my phone could get interesting.
Can't wait til VR is more compatible with outdoors, I know they work fine outdoors, and being careful/vigilant with it is enough to make it already completely viable. But companies aren't gonna jump on it or make software for that use case until it's less likely to lead to an increase in headset failures overall. But I would love for headsets to have GPS and cell capabilities. Augmented outdoor exercise games are the main thing I'm waiting for. Though of course there are also risks to exercise gamification to sort through. Same sort of thing, people being encouraged to do it without knowing the risks or participating in mitigating them for themselves. Tough to get stuff like that realised.
I would be curious to hear him list some of the low hanging fruits.
When your orchard is just getting off the ground all the fruits should be low 🤷
