We (the west) broke our end of the deal made after the cold war.
The myth of a ‘deal’ that NATO would continue to act as though Eastern Europe was under the thumb of the Warsaw Pact is just that, a myth.
Rightfully so, one could argue, every people should decide for themself which military organization they want to be part of one could argue, but we can’t be surprised if Russia also breaks its end of the deal.
… what end of the deal was that? In this version of the myth, did Russia promise, in exchange, to not invade its neighbors?
Is it suprising though and has nothing to do with the west breaking the deal…… No… Not really
It really doesn’t have anything to do with the West ‘breaking the deal’ - Crimea and the Donbass was seized from Ukraine after they rejected a pro-Russian puppet government back in 2014, and from there, tensions were always going to escalate over Russia invading and occupying Ukrainian land.
“We had to invade Ukraine because Albania joined NATO!” makes no sense, not even as an excuse. Ukrainian NATO aspirations were not serious until after 2014 - at which point NATO membership, completely unexpectedly, became very popular after an invasion by a neighboring state seizing large swathes of Ukrainian land with no legal justification.
… what end of the deal was that? In this version of the myth, did Russia promise, in exchange, to not invade its neighbors?
Not that explicitly, but yes, that’s exactly the story they are telling.
Einerseits war für Gorbatschow eine Vergrößerung der NATO-Zone auf Ostblock-Staaten „inakzeptabel“.[4][5] In einem Telegramm an den französischen Präsidenten vom April 1990 schlug Gorbatschow wiederum eine paneuropäische Sicherheitsarchitektur unter Führung der NATO vor. Im Mai 1990 erwog er sogar eine Mitgliedschaft der Sowjetunion in der NATO.[6] Die Ablehnung einer NATO-Erweiterung auf die mittelosteuropäischen Staaten bzw. vor allem die Ablehnung einer von der Sowjetunion bzw. dann Russland gänzlich unabhängigen freien Bündniswahl dieser Mitgliedsstaaten des sich zum 1. Juli 1991 auflösenden Warschauer Paktes blieb eine Konstante der Außenpolitik der sowjetischen Regierung und Politik bis zum von Hardlinern und Reaktionären versuchten Moskauer Augustputsch 1991."
-https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO-Osterweiterung
Should every country just follow Russian agenda and let them control ex east block states? No!
Does this mean it is acceptable in any way for them to start a war? No!
Is it surprising they will act exactly as they said and start a war? Also No…
You can call it a myth, that’s not they point, because even if so, it was a very powerful myth for Russian government they would act on.
My point is not, that this makes up for anything Russia does, it doesn’t, my point is that for them NATOs eastward expansion (along with EU expansion) plays a large role in searching for reasons to act imperialistic.
Even if we find that wrong, and a bad reason, which I do, we can’t just pretend it isn’t a major talking point for them and make it undone by pretending it isn’t there.
The point we should be making is why this NATO westward expansion doesn’t excuse starting a war, what their imperialistic interests are that make them use this claim and what our proposed way is of handling things differently is (international law, peacefull Negotiations about security interest, possible peace guarantees, etc.)
My problem with your meme is not, that I believe Russia is right, my problem with your meme is, that it makes it seem like Russia is not using NATO westward expansion a excuse to justify their illegal war to their own population and their international partners, which it absolutely does and has been since decades.
And that Russia starts illegally and forecfully securing control with a country which is not yet in the nato and has exceptional high geopolitical value for them is not so surprising in my opinion either.
I’m not arguing installing puppet governments, invading sovergein nations, occupying their land and slaughtering their people is remotely acceptable or excusable in any way.
I’m saying if some dictators say: we don’t invade old east block states as long as you don’t expand eastwards, then we do exactly that, and they do exactly what they said the would, we can’t act all surprised picachu and act like their actions have nothing to do with ours.
We can choose this conflict, because it is just, because it is the right thing to do, because we believe in the cause of freedom from imperialistic oppression by Russia etc. But we can’t say we couldn’t see that conflict coming and our actions (while the just ones) don’t play any role in it.
Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022 after Russian president Vladimir Putin made false claims that NATO military infrastructure was being built up inside Ukraine and that Ukraine’s potential membership was a threat. Russia’s invasion prompted Finland and Sweden to apply for NATO membership in May 2022.[1] Finland joined in April 2022 and Sweden in March 2024.[2][3][4] Ukraine applied for membership in September 2022 after Russia illegally annexed the country’s southeast.[1] Two other states have informed NATO of their membership aspirations: Bosnia and Herzegovina and Georgia.[5] Kosovo also aspires to join.[6] Joining the alliance is a debated topic in several other European countries outside the alliance, including Armenia, Austria, Cyprus, Ireland, Malta, Moldova, and Serbia.[7][8] -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO
Because the meme makes it seme like someone is superimposing this narrative on Russia, the little girl, which infantising Russia, taking them out of responsibility and distorting history.
This is not the case.
The narrative plays a huge role in the conflict and was pushed by people way back, Gorbachev for example.
In what universe would they admit they didn’t see it that way?
The united states would get pissed if our enemy decided to befriend Canada after we keep spitting on them, but that’s not any of their faults, we just didn’t think anything would ever change. And Canada used to like us, Ukraine has a long history of resisting Russia only to get invaded by them and forced into their sphere of influence. Ukraine wanted to be a separate communist country in the 1910s.
The myth of a ‘deal’ that NATO would continue to act as though Eastern Europe was under the thumb of the Warsaw Pact is just that, a myth.
… what end of the deal was that? In this version of the myth, did Russia promise, in exchange, to not invade its neighbors?
It really doesn’t have anything to do with the West ‘breaking the deal’ - Crimea and the Donbass was seized from Ukraine after they rejected a pro-Russian puppet government back in 2014, and from there, tensions were always going to escalate over Russia invading and occupying Ukrainian land.
“We had to invade Ukraine because Albania joined NATO!” makes no sense, not even as an excuse. Ukrainian NATO aspirations were not serious until after 2014 - at which point NATO membership, completely unexpectedly, became very popular after an invasion by a neighboring state seizing large swathes of Ukrainian land with no legal justification.
I am not arguing that international law or a treaty was broken with NATO eastward extension, and I don’t argue it was was wrong.
My point is, that Russia clearly communicated they see it this way.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversy_regarding_NATO's_eastward_expansion
Not that explicitly, but yes, that’s exactly the story they are telling.
Should every country just follow Russian agenda and let them control ex east block states? No!
Does this mean it is acceptable in any way for them to start a war? No!
Is it surprising they will act exactly as they said and start a war? Also No…
You can call it a myth, that’s not they point, because even if so, it was a very powerful myth for Russian government they would act on.
My point is not, that this makes up for anything Russia does, it doesn’t, my point is that for them NATOs eastward expansion (along with EU expansion) plays a large role in searching for reasons to act imperialistic. Even if we find that wrong, and a bad reason, which I do, we can’t just pretend it isn’t a major talking point for them and make it undone by pretending it isn’t there.
The point we should be making is why this NATO westward expansion doesn’t excuse starting a war, what their imperialistic interests are that make them use this claim and what our proposed way is of handling things differently is (international law, peacefull Negotiations about security interest, possible peace guarantees, etc.)
My problem with your meme is not, that I believe Russia is right, my problem with your meme is, that it makes it seem like Russia is not using NATO westward expansion a excuse to justify their illegal war to their own population and their international partners, which it absolutely does and has been since decades.
And that Russia starts illegally and forecfully securing control with a country which is not yet in the nato and has exceptional high geopolitical value for them is not so surprising in my opinion either.
I’m not arguing installing puppet governments, invading sovergein nations, occupying their land and slaughtering their people is remotely acceptable or excusable in any way.
I’m saying if some dictators say: we don’t invade old east block states as long as you don’t expand eastwards, then we do exactly that, and they do exactly what they said the would, we can’t act all surprised picachu and act like their actions have nothing to do with ours.
We can choose this conflict, because it is just, because it is the right thing to do, because we believe in the cause of freedom from imperialistic oppression by Russia etc. But we can’t say we couldn’t see that conflict coming and our actions (while the just ones) don’t play any role in it.
You’re talking in circles here, your only point is that “we should have seen this coming”. Ok? Why bother posting this?
Because the meme makes it seme like someone is superimposing this narrative on Russia, the little girl, which infantising Russia, taking them out of responsibility and distorting history.
This is not the case.
The narrative plays a huge role in the conflict and was pushed by people way back, Gorbachev for example.
In what universe would they admit they didn’t see it that way?
The united states would get pissed if our enemy decided to befriend Canada after we keep spitting on them, but that’s not any of their faults, we just didn’t think anything would ever change. And Canada used to like us, Ukraine has a long history of resisting Russia only to get invaded by them and forced into their sphere of influence. Ukraine wanted to be a separate communist country in the 1910s.