cross-posted from : https://lemmy.zip/post/63262827
Chanting ‘from the river to the sea’ would be criminalised under proposed state law
Israel has a right to be a weapons testing ground 😘
I mean, the Jewish people have a right to exist.
Does any state or country have a right to exist? I would argue probably not.
“Germany, which provides Israel with about a third of its weapons imports,”
Looks like we found the reason. To protect the military industrial complex and of course to crush any dissent that would prove that Germany has the blood of Palestinians on their hands.
Always about money.
Israel does not have a right to exist.
Israel has the right to exist.
Just not where it is currently.
It can exist in the minds and hearts of terrible people.
As usual, nothing of value was learned in Germany. We need yet another demonstration of why fascism is wrong.
No country or political project has a “right to exist”
Yeah. The people who live in Israel (and Palestine) have a right to exist. The country doesn’t have a right to exist.
In the past this used to be more obvious. When a country lost a war of aggression, they were forced to cede territory at the end of the war, or sometimes they were just wiped out and another country took over that territory.
All the events in Berlin are what people think about when they think about Germany after WWII. But, there’s also Königsberg. After WWII Königsberg became Kaliningrad. It’s a part of Russia that isn’t connected to the rest of Russia by land, only by the Baltic Sea.
IMO, a country engaging in genocide means that country should lose territory. Germany shows that there’s hope that a country can be reborn even after its leaders commit genocide. But, maybe it also shows that that country deserves to cede territory to some of the countries they harmed.
We shouldn’t really look towards the “might is right” geopolitics of the past for how things should be anymore. After WW2 there has been the ideal of a rules based international order under which the people have a right of self-determination and the country has sovereignty which together pretty much means recognizing that the state of Israel does have a right to exist.
People’s right to self-determination stops when that self-determination results in genocide against other people.
Does that preclude Palestine’s right to exist though? Palestinian peoples’ sovereignty?
Because currently Israel appears to be doing everything in its power to prevent that.
If they can determine another nation doesn’t have the right to exist, using Might Is Right, why should the rest of the world accept their right to exist?
it certainly doesn’t and attempts to resolve this have been happening under the international framework where both things are recognized for many decades now… If we had a system that was able to enforce the ideas uniformly instead of the current deeply flawed one where great powers still hold veto over any issue they want it could be that Israel would be prevented from doing that.
I used to be ambivalent to Israel but for fuck sake they just seem like a collection of the most awful people on the planet. Regardless of their history i feel like they deserve to have their entire country blockaded and obliterated to dust.
You’re making the same mistake as the Germans.
Don’t conflate a country with its people. There are Israeli teens sitting in prison right now for refusing to serve in the military because they oppose the genocide
We know about much of the horrors of the genocide thanks to the amazing reporting by Israelis at 972 and Bt’selem. Also shout out to Breaking the Silence. And to the Israeli anarchists fighting every day for a 0 State solution.
Nah.
Citizens have e always been held accountable for the acts and behaviour of their nation.
For example, if a single IDF soldier had raped or murdered a Palestinian, and the IDF had a trial and punished them appropriately, then perhaps an Israeli is not accountable for that
However when a country perpetuates a campaign of genocide, you cant really expect a free pass as a conscientious objector. The abuse of Palestinians is so deeply embedded in Israeli culture - soldiers sharing photos of the victims of their abuse is a celebrated daily occurrence.
In Australia for example our indigenous first Australians were abused by European settlers. That was mostly before I was born, but my generation is still held to account.
I mean to some extent you should at least recognize that they’ve been heavily propagandized to to be the people that they are.
Not that they should be excused, but they’re not inherently the most piece of shit country on the planet.
Even if the country has a right to exist, I don’t think anyone has a right to commit genocide. But what do I know? I ain’t no legal scholar…
Nazis backing nazis
Same as Australia :(
Uhhh
Just because we are against a genocide does not mean we hate Israel.
Do you hate people that supports the genocide? If so, that’s the majority of Israel’s population.
And just because we hate Israel doesn’t mean we hate Israelis
I mean, we can too 🤷🏻
The government to be clear. Or maybe certain individuals. Not the ethnicity on a whole.
Israeli is not an ethnicity.
think you mean race, they are an ethnicity
Just like Canadian and American are not an ethnicity. Canadians and Americans have ethnic origins, wherever they are from or are the descendants of.
Israel is stolen land by settlers from locals.
There are some Israeli citizens who are Palestinians whoose families lived there for hundreds of years
Not really a single race, though, it’s not strictly hereditary. People can become Jewish by conversion.
I’m sorry, it isn’t? I’m not sure I understand. Can you please explain this?
You should be able to hate anything you want as long as you don’t act against it I think
That’s a dislike. I’m referring to actual hatred.
I find it so strange that Germany is now desperately trying to protect the fee-fees of a fascist and overtly genocidal state.
Like, people have a right to exist. A state has no such right.
Yes, it’s very unlike them!
Your right to exist is not your right to attack your neighbors however. That’s a rather important detail we would do well to remember. There’s a saying about the right to extend my fist ending at the bridge of your nose.
Israel as a state was created to wash away the sins of holocaust, but we can’t atone for one genocide with another genocide.
The state must be abolished, the law must be decided by the indigenous people before the current settlers can be allowed back in as immigrants, if they clear the requirements set by the people.
There is no being against the genocide without being against the state of israel, because the genocide did not start today, it started the moment palestinians were displaced in the nakba.
No. Read the history.
Israel was created to kick the Jews out of Europe, by antisemites like Churchill and Balfour.
The Zionist project to take over Palestine started in the late 1800s. Long before WW2.
Israel worked with the Nazis closely.
You mean Zionists?
Israel didn’t exist when Nazis were in power. And when they did exist, they tried and murdered Nazis.
Same thing. Israel does not exist today either.
They certainly did not. https://thecradle.co/articles-id/37130
