The Most Dangerous App That Everyone Loves
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Title is editorialized because the original is, frankly, clickbait garbage

    • UraniumBlazer@lemm.eeEnglish
      75·
      8 months ago

      For those unaware, Organic Maps (uses OSM) is really good! It’s good for 90% of all ur navigation needs. For the rest 10%, there’s no good alternative to google maps unfortunately.

        • UraniumBlazer@lemm.eeEnglish
          6·
          8 months ago

          Traffic updates aren’t exactly a problem for me as I travel everywhere using my bicycle/public transit.

          The only problem I face is that I can’t get public transit information on OSM. Now ideally the city should be the one making this information accessible. Unfortunately for me, I currently live in a shitty city (although not for long). Therefore, within a matter of months, Organic would meet almost 100% of my navigation needs.

      • jherazob@beehaw.orgEnglish
        13·
        8 months ago

        My issue with these is that my use case is public transport, for that it seems like GMaps is still unbeatable, i hope to find an alternative as good or better based on OSM soon because it’s the one tool i still have no alternative to

        • Obi@sopuli.xyz
          5·
          8 months ago

          Where are you from? Where I live (in the Netherlands) there’s an official tool from the public transport services which works just as well as gmaps to plan your train/tram/metro/bus journey.

        • Facebones@reddthat.com
          3·
          8 months ago

          If you’re American, some of them support transit now. I have Magic Earth and it supports it in most major metro areas (and even my dinky little city I believe lol)

        • UraniumBlazer@lemm.eeEnglish
          41·
          8 months ago

          Same same. This is a problem in shithole cities. Good cities have their own transit apps (which are like Uber for public transit).

      • ReversalHatchery@beehaw.orgEnglish
        6·
        8 months ago

        I think 5 out of that 10% is supplemented by OsmAnd. But it does not have public transport schedules and traffic data.

        • lemmyvore@feddit.nlEnglish
          21·
          8 months ago

          There are often individual apps for various cities and transport organizations.

          Traffic has always been a mixed bag. Yeah it’s nice to be able to see that street A is more busy than street B. But so can everybody else, and they’re all going to use street B now.

          • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
            2·
            8 months ago

            Meh, I find most people don’t even bother.

            I use secondary routes 90% of the time by default, because they’re just as fast with less mental effort and less risk.

            Why go with all the lemmings?

          • ReversalHatchery@beehaw.orgEnglish
            1·
            8 months ago

            But so can everybody else, and they’re all going to use street B now.

            In my experience that’s not how it works out. It’s about balancing the load, while making the driver take the least amount of detour needed.
            Street B only has to handle the remaining traffic, and street A has a chance to unclog or at least be a faster route as some of its traffic does not exist anymore.

            • lemmyvore@feddit.nlEnglish
              1·
              8 months ago

              The app doesn’t control what people do, it just makes recommendations based on busy segments, based on data which is already obsolete by the time it’s being used. Ultimately the lemmings will do whatever their lemming brain tells them to.

              (That is, assuming the app doesn’t actually try to spread people around the various routes. But I doubt that any app maker wants to assume responsibility for that.)

              Ultimately traffic apps are mostly useless. You can’t “solve” traffic congestion with apps any more than you can make water flow faster through a pipe. Congestion is constrained by available road space and choke points. Google Maps is mostly an excuse for Google to collect location data, with a thin layer of features on top to make it seem worthwhile.

              • ReversalHatchery@beehaw.orgEnglish
                1·
                7 months ago

                Water does not think, it flows where it can.
                People while driving cannot know which route isn’t clogged, because cars are not flowing like water. If that would be the case all the small streets around main roads would be full too. If a street is clogged, and the driver sees it, they can decide to go on a different route, but in waze if they are using it to plan a route, it’ll try actively to avoid roads that are too busy.

                • lemmyvore@feddit.nlEnglish
                  1·
                  7 months ago

                  If that would be the case all the small streets around main roads would be full too.

                  They are. If they aren’t then your city is not really that busy. It’s actually a major problem in some cities for the residents of small residential streets that suddenly start getting lots of traffic because their street gets recommended on Waze or Maps.

        • michael_palmer@lemmy.sdf.org
          36·
          8 months ago

          Traffic data? If a grandmother had a penis, she would be a grandfather To implement this function, Osmand should gather location data from every user.

      • vatlark@lemmy.world
        5·
        8 months ago

        Wow, organic maps is really nice, seems like a much cleaner user interface than OsmAnd, whereas OsmAnd has more options.

      • LordKitsuna@lemmy.world
        21·
        8 months ago

        I genuinely don’t understand how anyone can believe this, I keep trying it over and over and over and it fails on the absolute most basic of business searches. And some of the directions it gives are just completely nonsensical, and it’s voice guidance is absolutely terrible making it fairly easy to miss a Direction if you’re not able to be looking at the screen

        I hate giving my location to Google but at the end of the day they are still the only GPS navigation that doesn’t suck at basic navigation

        • UraniumBlazer@lemm.eeEnglish
          1·
          8 months ago

          Do u live in some place less humans live? Like a village or something? OSM is mapped by volunteers, which means that less OSM enthusiasts around you = worse mapping. Perhaps you could start a little bit of mapping?

          As for the voice navigation, well Organic doesn’t have its own voice. It uses ur phone’s native text to speech engine. If u have completely degoogled ur phone, then u probably would be using some other tts engine (which most probably sucks ass).

          As for the searches, yeah, they need a better local search engine.

          • LordKitsuna@lemmy.world
            1·
            8 months ago

            I don’t just mean the voice, even just HOW it gives directions. Google maps gives you multiple warnings for a turn , one way before, one approaching, one right at. It also will often tell you which lane to take a turn in if multiple exist (use the second from the left lane to turn left) if your next turn is right after with little warning.

            It’s been a hot minute so i can try again to see if it’s changed but directions were terrible with little extra warning and no taking the next direction into account.

            The map was also just… Messy, little outlines for buildings everywhere a bunch of random green squares all over the map that I couldn’t figure out how to turn off and wasn’t even sure what they were meant to represent other than they seemed to roughly correspond with grassy or treed areas but for using it as a navigation app that is extremely annoying because it just makes the whole map of cluttered mess and makes it difficult to really tell what I’m looking at when I’m trying to drive and need to see my next Direction quickly and easily at a glance

        • Inevitable Waffles [Ohio]@midwest.socialEnglish
          2·
          8 months ago

          Yes, it does. I have used it successfully for months. My main issue is I need traffic data due to a new job and figuring which route to take. AFAIK, no other nav app has traffic data. That’s the only real bummer.

          • Kilgore Trout@feddit.itEnglish
            1·
            8 months ago

            HERE WeGo has traffic data but of course, as in Google Maps, it sources from other users of the same app.

            If not many people use HERE, then the data is also not reliable.

    • umbrella@lemmy.ml
      9·
      8 months ago

      also a lot of open maps alternatives rely on YOUR contribution to be good instead of a hired team at some corpo.

      use it and help out with it and you will have your open mapping app!

    • PrivateNoob@sopuli.xyz
      7·
      8 months ago

      Well change can only be done through voicing disapproval first, although Google will most definitely won’t stop the data gathering in Maps.

      Well It’s understandable if a lot of people wouldn’t switch over to OSM-based apps. I’ve tried OSMAnd, and I observe 3 drawbacks. Lengthy public transport calculation (fair since it’s computing on the phone), no reviews in POI areas (really hard to catch up on), weird results in transportations

    • T (they/she)@beehaw.org
      3·
      8 months ago

      I always try to keep in mind there are a lot of people that are simply unable to transition to alternative apps because they lack knowledge and time to do research on such things. What we see through videos isn’t the majority of the people, it is people that make content for the majority.

      People have hard times getting into more technical stuff already. Expecting people that are struggling to survive in capitalism to spend their free time learning about underground alternatives or to turn into sys admins and host their own stuff is out of touch if reality in my opinion.

      Edit: just wanted to add, I wouldn’t say the problem is on the people, but on big tech that predates on them

    • SomeGuy69@lemmy.world
      1·
      8 months ago

      Which GoogleMaps alternative has user reviews? I downloaded organic maps suggested here and there are no reviews. When I’m in a new town I need to know where I can and where I shouldn’t eat, shop or stay. At least there are some icons on organic maps, but that’s it.

        • SomeGuy69@lemmy.world
          2·
          7 months ago

          Not when you’re new in an unknown city. In my local city the ratings still make sense, I compared it with my own experience, so why would that change drastically elsewhere? It’s often the only option you have, visiting every website individually is too time consuming and doesn’t tell you anything about the service either. I bet even you look at reviews. It’s easy to say their are faked but there is no non faked alternative.

            • Onse@lemmy.ml
              11·
              7 months ago

              Visit a new city and spontaneously finding a good restaurant matching your criteria. I heavily rely on reviews for this usecase as well as being able to search e.g. for „vegan restaurants“ in a certain area, which also matches reviews with the word in it.

    • Substance_P@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      8 months ago

      The problem for me is when someone sends me a location pin it is almost always a Google map link. I have the same issue with people in my community using whatsapp.

        • Substance_P@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          8 months ago

          I guess you are right, for me I just try to avoid all Google links and products in the first place. I understand that you can tweak privacy controls and settings that allow you to manage how your data with Google is collected, I could also use a privacy browser or incognito, but my main issue is not giving any of these juggernaut corporations a chance to swing and cash in on my personal data.

  • kbal@fedia.io
    413·
    8 months ago

    Normal people: Gladly give google maps access to location data at all times and never think about it

    Me: Instinctively worry that on the rare occasions I do use google maps it’s somehow identifying me and keeping track of all the locations I look at, so I sometimes look at random places I’m not really interested in just to throw off the algorithms.

    But most of the time I prefer osmand.

    • delirious_owl
      131·
      8 months ago

      Me: can’t install Google Maps because my phone doesn’t have gapps. Awesome.

    • SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      6·
      8 months ago

      Osmand is really cool and it’s really capable but I understand that it isn’t for people who don’t want to tinker a bit to make things work just right for them.

      For that Organic Maps is what I recommend.

        • tuhriel@infosec.pub
          2·
          8 months ago

          I usually use OsmAND for my motorbike tours where I love the adaptable UI. But importing round trips is a big hit or miss, where most of the time it just skips all intermediary stops

          And for daily “driving” (hehe) I do miss some traffic info :-(

        • SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          2·
          8 months ago

          Idk how the new user experience is now but back when I first downloaded it I wanted a hybrid of sat imagery when cell signal allowed, with an overlay of offline OSM data. This was for two reasons, hiking and to see if the mapping in that hike area needed any major land use edits.

          Anyway I had to fiddle with the menus and settings for a while to get the overlays where I wanted it to be. Don’t get me wrong I was able to figure it out but for users who want to install and go it can be understandably frustrating

    • refalo@programming.dev
      3·
      8 months ago

      You: thinking they weren’t already tracking you by a zillion other means including wifi/bt and cellular triangulation

      Me: google-free wifi-only phone with all radios/mic/camera physically disconnected unless I need something specific

    • mojo_raisin@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3·
      8 months ago

      Or have your phone location turned on and be super boring back and forth. When you deviate use a burner.

    • utopiah@lemmy.ml
      31·
      8 months ago

      Normal people: Gladly give google maps access to location data at all times and never think about it

      Yet also same normal people get utterly genuinely shock when they see a map of their past locations for the last 3 months.

    • Fleppensteyn@feddit.nl
      1·
      7 months ago

      Giving it a try since I haven’t heard of this.

      It seems to have cool options, but for navigation it’s just completely unusable.

    • Dog@lemmy.worldEnglish
      55·
      8 months ago

      Who in their right mind would charge a subscription fee to download and/or update maps?

      Edit: I only found out about this after my father downloaded the app on his phone, and it said he only has 5 downloads remaining before downloading the map for my state. It’s extremely dumb for a “privacy focused maps app”

      • oddsys@lemmy.world
        15·
        8 months ago

        Only from walled garden app stores, the full unrestricted OSMAnd APK is available for free without restrictions from fdroid

        • Dog@lemmy.worldEnglish
          34·
          8 months ago

          But isn’t it open sourced? Can’t they have like a buymeacoffee? Not lock the most important feature behind a paywall?

          • kudos@lemmy.ml
            10·
            8 months ago

            It’s not locked, build it yourself or download the apk from fdroid. If that is too complicated for you (or anyone else), maybe pay for the service being provided then?

            • Dog@lemmy.worldEnglish
              17·
              8 months ago

              Ahh yes, let me install an Android PacKage on an iPhone

              • AFaithfulNihilist@lemmy.world
                16·
                8 months ago

                That just goes with a territory of having an iPhone. When you bought that device you signed on to a culture of consumption that is enforced by the developer of that device.

                The developer can’t force Apple to let the developer give it to you for free. Apple doesn’t tolerate free very well and anything that is free on Apple is likely either a privacy nightmare or is paid for by some subscription you have with Apple.

                This isn’t a problem with the app It’s a problem with the Apple.

              • kudos@lemmy.ml
                4·
                8 months ago

                If only there was some alternative like paying for the software you use 🙄

      • delirious_owl
        4·
        8 months ago

        If you really want to you can just download them outside the app for free. I like that it provides a free option for those with more time than money and a paid option for those with more money than time.

    • Ebby@lemmy.ssba.com
      24·
      8 months ago

      Google saw neat idea, built cool software, users happy. Replace cars to generate map data with phones for utmost accuracy. Trends of maximizing profit from cool technology makes users sad and services suck like other popular sites. Host begs Google not to make maps suck next.

    • The Snark Urge@lemmy.worldEnglish
      9·
      8 months ago

      Every free tech service can be (notionally) graded on how much value it offers for how much of your data it sucks up and monetizes. Most of the time we see an initial high value that gradually decreases as the developer gets greedy.

      Google maps has managed to become Google “best” service, but it’s important to be aware of the scale of problem we’ll see if they start squeezing it for increasing profits, since it sucks up so much of our data and manages to be so useful.

      That’s the bulk of it, but there were other points being made about solving for edge cases that seem less central to the point.

    • Kairos@lemmy.today
      2·
      8 months ago

      Google has a massive leg up in its technology and use cases so everyone uses it. The guy described it as a “1%” problem (as in the last percent of use cases that are hard to add to the app) and Google doesn’t have as many of those.

  • FriendBesto@lemmy.ml
    12·
    8 months ago

    Most people into Privacy, either stumbled upon the niche or work(ed) in some IT or related field. Have tried talking to the family, they are in denial or do not care. Or think that using WhatsApp is a wise choice and/or they are immune to ads. Somehow. It’s like talking to a goat who has more desire for habit over sense.

    I remember playing with Google Now, thinking it ‘neat’ and then within seconds realizing that in order for it to work optimally meant giving Google everything. It got me to root my phone and removed Goople Play Services and/or different ROMs. Today, I do not use Google for anything or use front-ends with a VPN or if ever really needed, Tor.

    Organic maps or OSMAnd. Plus, I find these two better for cycling and hiking, over Gmaps. If you must use Gmaps briefly, then GMaps WV from F-Droid.

  • ben_dover@lemmy.world
    4·
    8 months ago

    what’s a good alternative if one’s using GMaps mainly for travelling instead of navigation (i.e. looking up nearby restaurants and getting reviews, public transport, attractions and their opening hours, etc.)?

    • Possibly linux@lemmy.zipEnglish
      12·
      8 months ago

      Organic maps is what I use. Keep in mind OSM is built by the community so in places with lower tech literacy it will incomplete

    • blurg@lemmy.world
      41·
      8 months ago

      Used to know someone who looked for cars around a restaurant, or long lines waiting to get into a tiny cafe, asked wait staff for interesting places they liked to go; went into non-chain stores where locals shopped (off the main streets); asked walkers and service station workers for directions. Always had wild stories about what happened, if you could get past their private nature. Weird fucker, unpredictable, never could get used to’m. Likeable enough, though.

  • utopiah@lemmy.ml
    1·
    8 months ago

    I for one don’t talk about it… because I don’t use Google Maps. I briefly mention OSM or CityMapper when people send me GoogleMaps links but otherwise better to show than tell IMHO.