Depending on how the next four years go I’m on the fence between Bush Jr. and Trump but I’d like to hear from you
Edit:
Top 10 suggestions so far (unordered):
- Andrew Jackson
- Andrew Johnson
- George W. Bush Jr
- Ronald Reagan
- Richard Nixon
- James K. Polk
- Woodrow Wilson
- James Buchanan
- Franklin Pierce
- Donald J. Trump
No one said Buchanan.
Reagan
George W Bush Jr.
Yes I am handing him the worst president title, even over Trump.
Because, it was his mishandled War on Terror, that plunged the country into massive national debt. He crashed the housing market. He literally had waged a war on obese people, minorities and other things as distractions from his failure to capture Osama. He allowed American Surveillance with Patriot Act I and II. His cabinet were all crooks and he was just a dumb puppet.
He is essentially the ripple effect of everything we’re dealing with today and Trump is merely the symptom of that.
Trump is definitely in the bottom quintile, but also anyone putting him in the bottom 5 is just recency bias.
Most people who argued for Trump said it’s because of Jan 6th and his other felonies and that he was allowed to run again and became reelected (even tho a partition of the us citizens are to blame for the latter). I also think people already value him lower because of Project 2025 and out of fear what will happen during his 2nd term.
Wasn’t it Nixon who sold the americans out? Or Truman?
Ronald Reagan did more damage to this country than any president before or after him.
I’m continually shocked by how often I learn of some structural systemic issue, pull the thread to see where it started and- oh, surprise, it was once again Reagan.
It’s no coincidence that Reagan and Margaret Thatcher had such a close relationship - they thought alike.
In Britain, Thatcher is still reviled by many for sweeping changes. Killed the coal industry without giving support to the many thousands employed there and put the North into recession, took milk away from children, depowered the unions (which were too powerful at the time, tbf) and generally put the Tory Party on the London & Banks first mantra that they’ve been on ever since.
Before or after him so far
I feel like the “so far” is implied…unless you’ve somehow figured out how to 100% accurately predict the future and you haven’t told anyone.
…By the way, if that’s the case, rude.
George Washington. This thing should have been nipped in the bud.
Would that have changed much (Except for his name & face being literally everywhere in the US) or would they just have taken another founding father as their idol?
I would hire nucular George every day for the next 4 years to get rid of the orange dipshit.
It is absolutely fuckin bonkers that Trump is so bad that a person can say they yearn for the good old days with Dubya without a hint of sarcasm
Plenty of choice. In my view, most presidents were rambling reeking right wingers in some way or other, save for FDR and Teddy Roosevelt, who were the two presidents I’d actually call capable and outspoken on civil rights (rather than just pragmatical like Lincoln). They did have their blemishes, but less than e.g. Andrew Jackson.
So many presidents were terrible for one people or another.
Andrew Jackson? Held hundreds of slaves and quite literally led an ethnic expulsion against Native Americans (the Trail of Tears).
Lincoln? Mostly good, but did not forbid slavery in the form of penal labour. If one were to abolish slavery, why not go the full mile?
Wilson? Rabid antisemite, pretty much.
Hoover? Might’ve tried to tackle the Great Depression – but did so by allying with large coorporations, effectively being corrupt and choosing bribery.
Truman? Dropped nukes and set the stage for “we support any government that hates people being remotely leftist”.
Nixon - corrupt and wanted to sidestep the rule of law, all for his own profit: to stay in power. Other than thaf, decent, but that’s a big “other than that”.
Reagan - enough said. Ultracapitalist, misleading, made the US economy far worse by accruing debt like there’s no tomorrow, and shoving it onto the poor – typical oligarch behaviour! Militaristic, power-hungry. And no, he did not end the Cold War: Gorbachov did.
JFK: socially pretty good, actually. But economically, the cutting of the top rates made the richest keep more money. At least it wasn’t down below 50%, but still. Had that happened, I think the tax rates would’ve allowed wealth accumulation.
And so on.
So, in my view, it’s hard to focus on who is the worse, and better to rather focus on what is the best. Ted would be my candidate. Not only social progress, but also economical, and in a way that favour the worker – and he also was environmentally aware. That is a good president.
FDR and Teddy Roosevelt, who were the two presidents I’d actually call capable and outspoken on civil rights (rather than just pragmatical like Lincoln). They did have their blemishes
Blemishes? FDR seized the property of 200,000 Americans and threw them into concentration camps because of their race. The guy’s bottom 10 if not bottom 5. He’s easily the worst Democrat of the last 100 years.
Woodrow Wilson was so racist that he was quoted in an epigraph for “The Birth of a Nation.” You know, the 1915 movie about how awesome the KKK was, which became the first true “blockbuster” film and which led to a huge resurgence in KKK activity. Not only that, but Woodrow Wilson also personally invited the filmmakers to screen the movie in the White House - the first movie ever screened in the White House, by the way. Honorable mention!
As well as hating black people he also hated Slavs too and laid the foundations for anti-soviet US foreign policy
what? He gave the Slavic nations self-determination, there are roads named after him in e.g. Czechia, Slovakia; and wtf is bad about anti-Soviet foreign policy?
lol
and wtf is bad about anti-Soviet foreign policy?
-adolf hitler
wtf is bad about anti-Soviet foreign policy
The Soviets wanted deescalation after WW2, and supported self determination for liberated countries including Korea, Vietnam, Greece and Italy. Whatever you think of communism, the American policy of “containment” is directly and indisputably responsible for the suppression of democracy in dozens of countries and wars which killed tens of millions of people all because some of those people would have elected communist and socialist leaders we didn’t like.
He gave the Slavic nations self-determination
Absurd claim. Slavic nations risen due to collapse of the three european empires in WWI.
Andrew Jackson and it’s not even close. Not to downplay the horrible crimes committed by many of our other presidents but I don’t think anything rises to the level of the Trail of Tears.
Remove Jackson from the running and it’s a more interesting conversation, however thinking about it reveals just how interconnected all of this stuff is. While the current genocide is occurring under Biden, we can’t forget that the conditions that lead to Oct 7 were created under Trump. For that matter so were the conditions that lead to the escalation of the war in Ukraine.
I think the worst in my lifetime by a mile is Dubya, but while his wars were massive and consequential we can’t forget that George Senior also killed scores of people in Iraq, and Clinton carried out the sanctions regime that killed scores more. Clinton was also the one who broke Labor’s influence within the Democratic Party - but it was Obama who was swept into power on the promise of a working class revolution only to smother it in its crib.
But yeah my top two are Jackson and Dubya but beyond that I’m not sure there are a lot of crimes in the history of America’s presidency.
For that matter so were the conditions that lead to the escalation of the war in Ukraine.
Complete mind palace nonsense. We literally impeached him for threatening to not send weapons there for the civil war that ended up exploding into the full scale invasion.
Not that he had good reasons to do a good thing, but your recollection of history is completely fucking inverted
but beyond that I’m not sure there are a lot of crimes in the history of America’s presidency.
okay maybe I’m expecting too much from you
…you know we genocided an entire continent of people, right? And continue to?
We literally impeached him for threatening to not send weapons there for the civil war that ended up exploding into the full scale invasion.
Ah yes, the impeachment that accomplished so much and is extremely relevant.
I don’t care what Trump said or would have preferred, under his administration our government continued to fuel and escalate tensions in the region when we should have been pushing Ukraine to implement Minsk II and end the civil war. Maybe you could classify it as a mistake on his part instead of malice that he didn’t stop the arms shipments even though he really wanted to, but people are still liable for mistakes.
you know we genocided an entire continent of people, right? And continue to?
I literally cited an episode from that genocide as my reasoning for Jackson being the worst president.
While W. sucked in many ways, there is no way he is the worst. Off the top of my head I can easily think of four better contenders: Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan (both guilty of pro-slavery fuckery before the Civil War), Andrew Johnson (fought to let the Confederates off the hook after the war and opposed the 14th amendment), and Donald Trump (first president to be impeached twice, first to be convicted of a felony, and may be remembered by future historians as the spark that ignites the next Civil War).
Andrew Jackson???
Andrew Jackson was also a bastard, especially for his treatment of natives. But I meant Johnson.
I know you did, I was just adding 1
Ah, gotcha. I misunderstood.
donvict ain’t done yet, either. i think the damage and legacy he leaves behind, leaking out that giant diaper, will be the worst of the bunch.
Btw. question from Germany regarding Trumps Felony: I read that people convicted of a felony may not vote yet I also read that Trump cast his in Florida. Hoe does it actually work?
He was convicted in New York so Florida doesn’t care.
America doesn’t have laws and isn’t a functioning society.
It is complicated because the rules are different in each state. Also, Trump was convicted in New York state but he resides and votes in Florida.
For out-of-state convictions, Florida defers to the other state’s rules. New York would allow Trump to vote if he resided there because he is not currently in prison, so Trump can vote in Florida legally.
https://apnews.com/article/trump-felony-conviction-can-he-vote-b95e7b4c9158d999e8bc89b00fbda911
He’s rich and white so laws don’t apply to him.
He is kinda orange
Question from another European about that, he’s convicted but never got a sentence? Or did he and why in that case isn’t he serving?
Sentencing was delayed until after Nov. 5th, and now it’s been permanently delayed. I’m sure the conviction will be overturned at some point while he’s in office
But have can you delay a sentence?
I mean it sounds so foreign to be told in court that “Yeah you’re deemed guilty… but we’re telling you your punishment later. Maybe.” instead of just BAM guilty, straight to jail it will be!Sentencing isn’t always done at the same time a verdict is given. Often a judge will take time to research the punishments available in the law. Sometimes they’ll take advice on a person’s character, and consider the level of remorse the convict has for the crimes.
There was a small public outcry last year when a celebrity was convicted of sex crimes, and other celebrities known for their work against sex trafficking wrote to the judge to ask for leniency. It made the news because famous people were involved, but it’s a common occurrence.
He also wanted to wait to see what the Supreme Court would rule in the presidential immunity case, and I honestly can’t blame the man for delaying indefinitely following the results of that. This judge and his family received a lot of death threats and harassment from Trump’s supporters, but he also had to consider that Trump is immune to whatever crimes he chooses to commit in office.
Non burgers here: I believe the sentencing for the conviction was delayed till after the election. And since that they have announced it has been delayed indefinitely.
How is this even possible? Aren’t sentences supposed to come with the verdict?
The punishment might come at a later date (it might in my country where you can be told that in 3 months you will serve jail time), but the sentence?
andrew jackson (or johnson can never remember which) for the trail of tears. absolutely awful
Jackson was trail of tears, Johnson was the one who killed reconstruction. Both very bad.
Andrew Jackson was Trail of Tears, but I actually think Andrew Johnson was arguably worse. He was Lincoln’s Democrat vice president (he was brought on to help “balance the ticket” instead of sticking with his strongly abolitionist first term VP Hannibal Hamlin), who started dismantling reconstruction and giving the power back to the former slaveowners.
You can pretty much lay Jim Crow at his feet.
kinda hard to argue apartheid is worse than genocide imo
I’m not really trying to weigh and decide if 6000+ deaths and forcible removal of 100k+ people from their homes is better or worse than 100 or so years of systemic oppression followed by more, quieter oppression. Instead, I’m looking at this from the perspective of alternatives.
After the Civil War we very nearly had a moment when we could have maybe did something real for racial equality beyond anything we’ve seen even up to the present day. The Freeman’s Bureau was fighting for wages for former slaves, and was generally a force for working class empowerment. Black congressmen were already being voted into office rapidly. If it were left to do its work, it might even have helped to innoculate the Irish- and Italian-Americans against future union busting on Black/White racial lines a few decades down the line.
Instead, after only about a year, Andrew Johnson started fighting and dismantling the Bureau, placing the former slaveowners back into a de facto master/slave relationship with their former slaves, giving the old Southern Democrats back their political power, and generally restoring the status quo as much as possible. The Bureau itself lasted only 5 or 6 years, don’t remember. The KKK rose up because reconstruction wasn’t there anymore to prevent it, because the Democrats wanted so bad to just put all of the states back in the union and go back to bad old days, and so on.
That was never a realistic moment that I know of in American history where people against war with the native tribes of this land had outsized power and influence. Jackson completely ignoring the Supreme Court’s ruling was awful, but while the ruling was grounded in good moral and legal principles, it was, like it or not, extremely unpopular. There wasn’t an entire party with a supermajority in Congress that could have kept up the pressure on this issue.
To only count the direct deaths of the forced march and not the deaths resulting in having your land stolen and along with it your ability to reproduce your society is straight up genocide denial.
After the Civil War we very nearly had a moment when we could have maybe did something real for racial equality beyond anything we’ve seen even up to the present day.
And this is absolving responsibility of all the people who maintained slavery, which one could argue is even worse than jim crow.
I’d probably say someone like Andrew Jackson before even thinking about Trump being the worst. Jackson did a literal genocide with the Indian Removal Act
Touché. His first term wasn’t that horrible (although it wasn’t good either). I’m still mad they organised a meeting with Kim just to tell him to go fuck himself. That character development could become spicy. On the other hand would we even have had a meeting with Clinton in power?
But hey, he still has four years and a lot of plans to claim a podium place.
That meeting with Kim was probably to woo him like US previously did to Iran to make them abandon nuclear armaments, but thankfully DPRK govt can read and do know what happens to countries who believe empty US lies. So since that didn’t work, US in a second abandoned their friendly mask and went back to previous policies.
It’s tempting to pick someone recent, but the real answer is probably Andrew Jackson. He successfully engineered a genocide, trampled the Constitution and human rights, and was actively hostile to limits on Presidential power.
We’ll see if 47 surpasses him. He’s set up to do so. It’s going to be wild to see what happens when Trump order troops to fire into crowds of American citizens.
We always seem to get this crazy hyperbole that Trump is going to be some competent fascist that’s going to perform some great coup that will end the US, but in reality it always seems the real damage he does is the evil bureaucracy that erodes rights and liberties while exacerbating things in foreign policy.
Jan 6th was very flashy, but comparatively speaking, nothing really happened.
I’m not afraid of Trump’s competence. I’m afraid of Trump’s cult of personality and the competent people that are now handling him. We didn’t elect Trump, we elected Project 2025.
Handling is a somewhat strong word here though. For better and worse, he’s very impulsive and egotistically sensitive. His last administration left a huge wake of people that haven’t been rehired and likely won’t be.
Even if we assume his new lackeys care enough about the Heritage Foundation to attempt to implement their plan, I’d be amazed if they could corral his attention long enough to get him to sign anything in.
Have anyone but him and Biden overseen genocides?
Every president since the 70s has overseen genocide, even ignoring the one you’re likely alluding too.
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Pretty much all of them actively participated in various genocides and massacres, either directly like native genocide or Philippines or all the aerial massacres of XX and XXI century (even the one who was president for a month), or indirectly like even the “most peaceful president” Carter supported the massacres in Indonesia.
overseen? Yes.
With Jackson, it’s not overseen, it’s orchestrated
Just wondering if you had a few other overseen examples off the top of your head since you seem knowledgeable on this.
