Misner said it was a difficult decision to vote for Trump. He said the point of the Abandon Harris campaign was to punish the Democrats for supporting Israel during its war in Gaza, which the campaigners view as a genocide, and he hopes the Trump campaign will be more willing to negotiate with group leaders.
Vindication feels awful here, honestly.
“I think the biggest problem is that your messaging to Arab Americans can’t just be ‘Trump’s a fascist, Trump is Hitler. Big, scary orange man, vote for me.’ Part of being a part of the American political system is being able to separate yourself from your opponent and lay out a better vision. And she did not do that,” Abdelrahman said.
Negative messaging works, as much as people like to pretend it doesn’t.
If you saw a literal fascist openly declaring fascist things, and your response to the milquetoast opposition is “Well, you’re not seperated enough, stylistically”, you’re not much more than a fascist enabler.
In what fucking way is “Not fascism” not a better vision than “Literal fucking fascism”?
“She could have at least called for a ceasefire,” Khan said. (Harris repeatedly called for a ceasefire during her campaign, including during her Democratic convention speech.)
Ah, it’s just like being on Lemmy!
“Even in politics, humanity should be the first and the foremost thing to to be respected, to be valued, right? And [the] Democratic Party clearly, clearly, for an entire year showed us they do not care about human life,” Khan said. “They do not care about their constituents, how they feel about the massacre.”
Ah, yes, humanity is the first and foremost thing to be respected, which is why LGBT Americans have been served to fascists on a silver platter as a protest vote. Peak humanity.
Harris didn’t call for a ceasefire. She called for both sides to voluntarily stop fighting and negotiate between themselves and that the US/Biden should do absolutely nothing at all to pressure Israel into making that ceasefire happen, while at the same time exerting maximum pressure on Palestinians to just surrender with zero guarantees of food or safety. In fact, she gave speeches that her support of Israel is unshakeable and they’ll give Israel whatever it needs, despite the majority of Americans in polling saying they favor conditioning military aid to Israel and Ukraine. She had a solid year of not just polling data but evidence that Biden’s policy was a failure and not just unpopular, and she just insisted on repeating his mistake. It’s like if a pilot is nosediving a plane and then a new pilot takes over but decides to keep flying exactly the same despite everyone telling to stop.
which is why LGBT Americans have been served to fascists on a silver platter as a protest vote.
If you are queer and have any way out, get out. If you can’t get out, scrub your internet history as clean as you possibly can because they will hunt you down.
God I hate it but there’s going to have to be a new underground railroad for pregnant women and queer and brown people…
“She could have at least called for a ceasefire,” Khan said. (Harris repeatedly called for a ceasefire during her campaign, including during her Democratic convention speech.)
Keep in mind that Biden is still President and they completely ignored the letter they sent before about Israel having thirty days to change their human rights violations. So they clearly don’t give a shit even though they don’t even have to worry about reelection anymore so we can’t blame that.
Ah, yes, humanity is the first and foremost thing to be respected, which is why LGBT Americans have been served to fascists on a silver platter as a protest vote. Peak humanity.
You can’t feign outrage about people served on a platter when you did that exact same thing to people undergoing an active genocide. “First they came for the Palestinians, and I ignored them, because they’re not white.” Is that how the poem goes? You were willing to sacrifice an entire ethnic group so you can feel comfortable. Too many Americans were. Now we’re all going to suffer together, and frankly, we’re going to deserve it.
They just do not care about other people, so the suffering of one minority or another isn’t important to them.
Frankly, they were more irritated that these minority groups exist in the first place since they get in the way of whatever political goal they have. It’s like the movie Don’t Look Up, where the president says that this asteroid or comet or whatever is so inconvenient for her because she was going to spend the summer having a political fight over Supreme Court nominations and can’t they just push this extinction-level-event crisis back to another time, like the fall or after the midterms?
What I am not surprised about, at all, is that all the “don’t vote for her” people like yourself (apparently) are now claiming they are not in any way responsible for a fascist getting elected. It’s everyone else’s fault, but the person who literally said to not vote for the only other option than the fascist shares none of the blame.
And if that isn’t you, you’re defending people who share the blame. Which, I would say, falls into the camp of ‘pathetic’ as well.
Oh come on, Harris lost by a larger margin of all the Arab American voters combined. It’s foolish to blame her losing on this one community (who voted for her anyway). The community is suffering and you decide to add insult to this injury, as if we somehow were responsible and not the 70 million Trump voters.
Interesting how you decided I was talking about Muslim-Americans in one post and Arab-Americans in another post even though I was talking about neither group.
Also interesting how you seem to think Arab = Muslim and Muslim = Arab.
Nope. You said “people like yourself” and I was responding to that. You have no idea whether I’m Arab or not, and you may have inferred I’m Muslim because of my name or posting history, but you’re the one treating the groups as the same for this topic.
Nah man, fascism is already here. If you, me, and the rest of the Democrats were willing to tolerate a genocide to keep a system enabling a genocide, then it can’t be denied. We weren’t delaying fascism, we just weren’t the current target of it and because of that, you couldn’t see it. We’re all fucked but it’s because of these exact attitudes that allowed dehumanization to be accepted.
What, no? Well, as much as you’re saying that Palestinians deserve to be victims of a genocide to protect LGBTQ people. Brown people are already being genocided btw.
Not at all. It’s frankly telling that you view this as some sort of zero-sum game, that we must sell out one minority or another. We all succeed or fail together; it’s why Muslim-Americans and LGBT groups have been working together politically for over 20 years. Despite that, it was still shocking to see how many LGBT people immediately tried to abandon Muslim voters because they thought it could help Biden/Harris win in swing states, and still bash them even now after the election. (Even though anti-trans ads played a much bigger role) You’re doing what you criticize others for even here and now.
Hillary already tried this in 2016, throwing Muslim Americans and Arab Americans under the bus in order to boost her votes among conservatives and Republican voters. It failed, and Biden/Harris decided to try it again.
The DNC did that by running shit candidates back to back to back who either couldn’t defeat a blatant, moronic fascist or just barely beat him by the skin of their teeth with the aid of a massive pandemic and economic turmoil fresh in everyone’s mind. They sold out the whole country in favor of maintaining the status quo for their corporate masters and major donors.
I will always condescend to bigots and fascists, and I’m proud to do it. If we don’t “chase” them, they’ll win permanently.
I guess it’s easier to just roll over and pretend the biggest fascist of all is acceptable. That way you don’t have to admit that you made a bad decision, and you can spend the next four years savoring your moral victory and calling people “pathetic”. You’re awesome.
Good news! To the Republicans neither are important and they would gladly see both groups disappear, so a vote for them and a refusal to vote for the Democrats was just support for both Muslim AND LGBTQ+ genocide! Good job everyone!
And no, it won’t affect me, I’m a white CIS hereto guy living outside the USA.
I hope you sleep comfortably knowing that your protest vote or non vote will result in the death of more Muslims. I guess they’re not important to you either.
I’m not Jewish either, as a baptized Catholic you don’t have to worry, I’m safe, unlike those Muslims and LGBTQ+ and Ukrainians and so many more which you’ve condemned to genocide. Hell, even blacks, Latinos, first Nations and Arabs inside the US are in even more danger than they were because of people who didn’t want to vote for the lesser of two evils or who voted for the Republicans to “teach the Democrats a lesson”.
Well that lesson will be taught at the expense of a whole lot of minorities and foreigners so fuck you, especially since you recognize that you just made the whole fucking world more dangerous for everyone.
You’re the one who supported a far right lunatic and who tries to make yourself feel good by pretending that your choices don’t have consequences on yourself and others. Stop blaming others and act like a fucking adult, presented with a choice between two options you chose the one that would make things worse for the people you pretend you want to protect. You cut your nose to spite your face and now you’re in front of the mirror pretending it was all worth it because you can’t admit to yourself that your decision just made things worse.
Good luck with your deportation, hopefully you don’t get sent somewhere to die so you get to learn a lesson.
Edit: Aaaw, you’re mad and you’re downvoting all my previous messages, cute!
Your response was a strawman. No one was saying anyone was more important than anyone else, you just tossed out that nonsense instead of trying to actually participate in a conversation.
You don’t have an opposing position, you just want to be contrarian and make outrageous statemens, which is just a fancy way to say you’re a troll. Maybe it’s famous because a lot of people like you troll and get called out for that nonsense.
Where did I make it about Muslims? Quote me. The only time I even mentioned them was when I was talking about the “Don’t vote for Kamala” people caring about the genocide of Muslims overseas but not giving a shit about the genocides that were going to hit their doorstep.
It seems I was confusing you with another poster in this thread, and for that I’m sorry. You bashing “people like yourself” was ambiguous as was your comment putting down the needs of Muslims overseas.
Of course, I support the trans community and I think both our communities are about to suffer over the next few years.
Oh not this again, the flying carpet fallacy. Majority of American Muslims support LGBT rights, but that doesn’t matter to you because you’re judging me based on people in another country, who speak a language I don’t. Do you also bash American Christians because Ugandans lynch gays? Or do you bash American Jews because Israelis are terribly rightwing and extremist?
Way to push away your political allies who have been on your side for decades.
What are you even saying? I didn’t say anything about what American Muslims support. I wasn’t even talking about them.
I’m talking about what all the non-Muslims, many of whom never even talked to a Palestinian in their lives, said to not vote for Harris because of genocide, ignoring the fact that Trump was not only even more in favor of genocide of Palestinians than Harris, but also made his plans to implement domestic genocide very clear.
Because the important thing was their own self-righteousness.
Those people are not my political allies. Exactly the opposite. They’re the people who have participated in what is forcing me to flee the country for my queer child’s safety.
Also:
Or do you bash American Jews because Israelis are terribly rightwing and extremist?
You might take a look at my profile and see what communities I moderate and then think about asking me that question again.
It’s known as a rhetorical question. I was giving examples to show how stupid this double standard is, not that I was claiming you are bashing Jews. I can’t see your mod communities on mobile and frankly it’s not relevant.
You don’t have to be Muslim to be appalled by the carnage in Gaza or the rise of rightwing extremism now in charge of a nuclear armed state making aggressive wars on neighbors and oppressing minorities through continuous modern apartheid. Why are you so bent out of shape that this genocide shocked their conscience too? This wasn’t about self righteousness, it was about basic human morality; Biden actually spent his political capital and fought his own party and majority public opinion to accelerate Israel’s violence. He wasn’t just passively complicit but became an active accomplice and tried to make us all part of it by voting to continue it with zero changes or oversight. Browbeating the public to support it or else is not a winning strategy and he has only himself to blame, not any voters you want to castigate. A politician who can’t lead and can’t campaign and can hardly speak coherently in debates or policy discussions should be blamed for losing and not the voters. That’s how normal politics works. “Vote for the party no matter what” is not normal and you shouldn’t blame people for not sinking to your level of amorality or cynicism. You can’t blame Trump voters for ignoring his rape allegations and then get angry that Biden voters are wavering because of his inappropriate behaviors to women or his open support of genocide. It’s a double standard.
And despite this, despite breaking his campaign promises and shunning the community who helped him win last time, the Muslim-American community STILL turned out and majority voted for Democrats as we’ve done for the last 20 years. And we collectively lost anyway but you decided to make yourself feel better by blaming the victims here.
I’m still not talking about Muslim-Americans no matter how much you want me to be. Sorry. If you want to argue with someone about what Muslim-Americans believe, maybe post a topic?
Vindication feels awful here, honestly.
Negative messaging works, as much as people like to pretend it doesn’t.
If you saw a literal fascist openly declaring fascist things, and your response to the milquetoast opposition is “Well, you’re not seperated enough, stylistically”, you’re not much more than a fascist enabler.
In what fucking way is “Not fascism” not a better vision than “Literal fucking fascism”?
Ah, it’s just like being on Lemmy!
Ah, yes, humanity is the first and foremost thing to be respected, which is why LGBT Americans have been served to fascists on a silver platter as a protest vote. Peak humanity.
Harris didn’t call for a ceasefire. She called for both sides to voluntarily stop fighting and negotiate between themselves and that the US/Biden should do absolutely nothing at all to pressure Israel into making that ceasefire happen, while at the same time exerting maximum pressure on Palestinians to just surrender with zero guarantees of food or safety. In fact, she gave speeches that her support of Israel is unshakeable and they’ll give Israel whatever it needs, despite the majority of Americans in polling saying they favor conditioning military aid to Israel and Ukraine. She had a solid year of not just polling data but evidence that Biden’s policy was a failure and not just unpopular, and she just insisted on repeating his mistake. It’s like if a pilot is nosediving a plane and then a new pilot takes over but decides to keep flying exactly the same despite everyone telling to stop.
If you are queer and have any way out, get out. If you can’t get out, scrub your internet history as clean as you possibly can because they will hunt you down.
God I hate it but there’s going to have to be a new underground railroad for pregnant women and queer and brown people…
Oh great, this point again. They changed the meaning of the word ceasefire they were using. They tried to coopt the term into a meaningless one, while Muslims meant a ceasefire with actual effort and teeth behind it, meaning some sort of leverage, not the meaningless one of the Biden administration.
Keep in mind that Biden is still President and they completely ignored the letter they sent before about Israel having thirty days to change their human rights violations. So they clearly don’t give a shit even though they don’t even have to worry about reelection anymore so we can’t blame that.
You can’t feign outrage about people served on a platter when you did that exact same thing to people undergoing an active genocide. “First they came for the Palestinians, and I ignored them, because they’re not white.” Is that how the poem goes? You were willing to sacrifice an entire ethnic group so you can feel comfortable. Too many Americans were. Now we’re all going to suffer together, and frankly, we’re going to deserve it.
I wish I could upvote your comment more than once.
Gay people aren’t more important than Muslims
It would seem that they are considerably less important than virtue signaling to Muslims for many voters, yes.
Ah so we all need to respect your views, but when it comes to not wanting to support genocide label it virtue signaling.
Liberals are so pathetic. I’m sure that condescending everyone you meet will win you tons of votes.
You all spend so much time chasing fascist voters and then act so surprised when the fascists are suddenly legitimized by society.
They just do not care about other people, so the suffering of one minority or another isn’t important to them.
Frankly, they were more irritated that these minority groups exist in the first place since they get in the way of whatever political goal they have. It’s like the movie Don’t Look Up, where the president says that this asteroid or comet or whatever is so inconvenient for her because she was going to spend the summer having a political fight over Supreme Court nominations and can’t they just push this extinction-level-event crisis back to another time, like the fall or after the midterms?
What I am not surprised about, at all, is that all the “don’t vote for her” people like yourself (apparently) are now claiming they are not in any way responsible for a fascist getting elected. It’s everyone else’s fault, but the person who literally said to not vote for the only other option than the fascist shares none of the blame.
And if that isn’t you, you’re defending people who share the blame. Which, I would say, falls into the camp of ‘pathetic’ as well.
Oh come on, Harris lost by a larger margin of all the Arab American voters combined. It’s foolish to blame her losing on this one community (who voted for her anyway). The community is suffering and you decide to add insult to this injury, as if we somehow were responsible and not the 70 million Trump voters.
Interesting how you decided I was talking about Muslim-Americans in one post and Arab-Americans in another post even though I was talking about neither group.
Also interesting how you seem to think Arab = Muslim and Muslim = Arab.
Nope. You said “people like yourself” and I was responding to that. You have no idea whether I’m Arab or not, and you may have inferred I’m Muslim because of my name or posting history, but you’re the one treating the groups as the same for this topic.
Yet again, I’m still not talking about Muslim-Americans or Arab-Americans. So no, no I’m not. Because neither group is who I was talking about.
I know you want me to be talking about them, but I’m still not.
Nah man, fascism is already here. If you, me, and the rest of the Democrats were willing to tolerate a genocide to keep a system enabling a genocide, then it can’t be denied. We weren’t delaying fascism, we just weren’t the current target of it and because of that, you couldn’t see it. We’re all fucked but it’s because of these exact attitudes that allowed dehumanization to be accepted.
I’m sorry… did you just suggest that queer and brown people deserve to be victims of a genocide because of Democrats?
What, no? Well, as much as you’re saying that Palestinians deserve to be victims of a genocide to protect LGBTQ people. Brown people are already being genocided btw.
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Not sure what else you’d call selling out queer folk to feel good about yourself.
Not at all. It’s frankly telling that you view this as some sort of zero-sum game, that we must sell out one minority or another. We all succeed or fail together; it’s why Muslim-Americans and LGBT groups have been working together politically for over 20 years. Despite that, it was still shocking to see how many LGBT people immediately tried to abandon Muslim voters because they thought it could help Biden/Harris win in swing states, and still bash them even now after the election. (Even though anti-trans ads played a much bigger role) You’re doing what you criticize others for even here and now.
Hillary already tried this in 2016, throwing Muslim Americans and Arab Americans under the bus in order to boost her votes among conservatives and Republican voters. It failed, and Biden/Harris decided to try it again.
The DNC did that by running shit candidates back to back to back who either couldn’t defeat a blatant, moronic fascist or just barely beat him by the skin of their teeth with the aid of a massive pandemic and economic turmoil fresh in everyone’s mind. They sold out the whole country in favor of maintaining the status quo for their corporate masters and major donors.
I will always condescend to bigots and fascists, and I’m proud to do it. If we don’t “chase” them, they’ll win permanently.
I guess it’s easier to just roll over and pretend the biggest fascist of all is acceptable. That way you don’t have to admit that you made a bad decision, and you can spend the next four years savoring your moral victory and calling people “pathetic”. You’re awesome.
Good news! To the Republicans neither are important and they would gladly see both groups disappear, so a vote for them and a refusal to vote for the Democrats was just support for both Muslim AND LGBTQ+ genocide! Good job everyone!
Good news, genocide is genocide. You’re just upset it might effect you now.
Affect.
And no, it won’t affect me, I’m a white CIS hereto guy living outside the USA.
I hope you sleep comfortably knowing that your protest vote or non vote will result in the death of more Muslims. I guess they’re not important to you either.
What other languages do you speak?
But no, it doesn’t stop with the US, and if it’s not stopped no where will be safe for you either. Mostly cis white men died in the Holocaust.
French is my first language.
I’m not Jewish either, as a baptized Catholic you don’t have to worry, I’m safe, unlike those Muslims and LGBTQ+ and Ukrainians and so many more which you’ve condemned to genocide. Hell, even blacks, Latinos, first Nations and Arabs inside the US are in even more danger than they were because of people who didn’t want to vote for the lesser of two evils or who voted for the Republicans to “teach the Democrats a lesson”.
Well that lesson will be taught at the expense of a whole lot of minorities and foreigners so fuck you, especially since you recognize that you just made the whole fucking world more dangerous for everyone.
Sorry my genocide is finally affecting you, and yes it will affect you.
Hope you stop being a far right lunatic and stop supporting them.
You’re the one who supported a far right lunatic and who tries to make yourself feel good by pretending that your choices don’t have consequences on yourself and others. Stop blaming others and act like a fucking adult, presented with a choice between two options you chose the one that would make things worse for the people you pretend you want to protect. You cut your nose to spite your face and now you’re in front of the mirror pretending it was all worth it because you can’t admit to yourself that your decision just made things worse.
Good luck with your deportation, hopefully you don’t get sent somewhere to die so you get to learn a lesson.
Edit: Aaaw, you’re mad and you’re downvoting all my previous messages, cute!
Entirely missing the point, this has to be a troll
Oh hey, the famous .world reason for mass banning of dissent and opposing positions.
Your response was a strawman. No one was saying anyone was more important than anyone else, you just tossed out that nonsense instead of trying to actually participate in a conversation.
You don’t have an opposing position, you just want to be contrarian and make outrageous statemens, which is just a fancy way to say you’re a troll. Maybe it’s famous because a lot of people like you troll and get called out for that nonsense.
But queer people domestically are apparently far less important than Muslims in another country.
But I look forward to the people who told me “there won’t be a genocide of queer people” telling me that the genocide isn’t happening.
They just shut put their hands over their eyes whenever I showed them this after all…
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I never once bashed Muslims. This has nothing to do with Muslims. Stop trying to make it about Muslims.
Of course you are, it’s what your above comment is about, trying to make false associations as if that applies to my community here.
Where did I make it about Muslims? Quote me. The only time I even mentioned them was when I was talking about the “Don’t vote for Kamala” people caring about the genocide of Muslims overseas but not giving a shit about the genocides that were going to hit their doorstep.
It seems I was confusing you with another poster in this thread, and for that I’m sorry. You bashing “people like yourself” was ambiguous as was your comment putting down the needs of Muslims overseas.
Of course, I support the trans community and I think both our communities are about to suffer over the next few years.
Oh not this again, the flying carpet fallacy. Majority of American Muslims support LGBT rights, but that doesn’t matter to you because you’re judging me based on people in another country, who speak a language I don’t. Do you also bash American Christians because Ugandans lynch gays? Or do you bash American Jews because Israelis are terribly rightwing and extremist?
Way to push away your political allies who have been on your side for decades.
What are you even saying? I didn’t say anything about what American Muslims support. I wasn’t even talking about them.
I’m talking about what all the non-Muslims, many of whom never even talked to a Palestinian in their lives, said to not vote for Harris because of genocide, ignoring the fact that Trump was not only even more in favor of genocide of Palestinians than Harris, but also made his plans to implement domestic genocide very clear.
Because the important thing was their own self-righteousness.
Those people are not my political allies. Exactly the opposite. They’re the people who have participated in what is forcing me to flee the country for my queer child’s safety.
Also:
You might take a look at my profile and see what communities I moderate and then think about asking me that question again.
It’s known as a rhetorical question. I was giving examples to show how stupid this double standard is, not that I was claiming you are bashing Jews. I can’t see your mod communities on mobile and frankly it’s not relevant.
You don’t have to be Muslim to be appalled by the carnage in Gaza or the rise of rightwing extremism now in charge of a nuclear armed state making aggressive wars on neighbors and oppressing minorities through continuous modern apartheid. Why are you so bent out of shape that this genocide shocked their conscience too? This wasn’t about self righteousness, it was about basic human morality; Biden actually spent his political capital and fought his own party and majority public opinion to accelerate Israel’s violence. He wasn’t just passively complicit but became an active accomplice and tried to make us all part of it by voting to continue it with zero changes or oversight. Browbeating the public to support it or else is not a winning strategy and he has only himself to blame, not any voters you want to castigate. A politician who can’t lead and can’t campaign and can hardly speak coherently in debates or policy discussions should be blamed for losing and not the voters. That’s how normal politics works. “Vote for the party no matter what” is not normal and you shouldn’t blame people for not sinking to your level of amorality or cynicism. You can’t blame Trump voters for ignoring his rape allegations and then get angry that Biden voters are wavering because of his inappropriate behaviors to women or his open support of genocide. It’s a double standard.
And despite this, despite breaking his campaign promises and shunning the community who helped him win last time, the Muslim-American community STILL turned out and majority voted for Democrats as we’ve done for the last 20 years. And we collectively lost anyway but you decided to make yourself feel better by blaming the victims here.
I’m still not talking about Muslim-Americans no matter how much you want me to be. Sorry. If you want to argue with someone about what Muslim-Americans believe, maybe post a topic?
Sorry your support of genocide might now effect you
It’s like the literal progression of the poem and people still act surprised.
I have a long history here on Lemmy. Let’s see if you can find one single comment where I support genocide.
Affect.