(TikTok screencap)
The replies on this thread are absolutely fascinating. How can people be against physical books is a riddle to me.
I threw my back out this weekend moving boxes and boxes of my family’s books. Other than weight and shelf space, I have no complaints about paper books.
Right?!
I saw someone post recently that if libraries were invented today they’d never be allowed to exist and I fear that’s correct.
Have you ever seen a Cybertruck in the parking lot of the public library? Thought so.
I think actual digital data centers can have value for humanity. You need to store things like Wikipedia and Archive.org and other worthwhile sites and services somewhere.
What is shit is the explosion in “data” centers that are really more like gigawatt space heaters that spit out fake images and wrong statements on the side.
Kiwix library is a site where you can download wikipedia, project gutenberg, devdocs, and other stuff like that as .zim files, which you can open with the kiwix software and basically browse the sites offline/locally
Wikipedia and whole of archive.org probably fit on 1 rack full of drives. 99,999% of what’s on datacenters are literal garbage photos, videos and what not that people don’t delete, and their copies in many other locations for high availability.
You can download the entire Wikipedia and use it locally.
Yeah, I know the perversion of words is a regular thing (for various malicious or random reasons), but the the current use of “AI” and “data certes” really keeps fucking me mid communication (evey time I hear “AI” I think “oh, non-AI-AI”).
The last time this happened as much (iirc) was the word “literally” (as in ‘it literally keeps fucking me mid communication’).
So yes, data centres (libraries) are important, including managing risks of such centres (eg de/centralisation, concentration, etc).
I would say intelligence is important too but … I lack the evidence.Literally has meant figuratively longer than literally only meant objectively.
Touche.
Alas, I did not touch you!
Funny how words grow and change with use 😁
No, that was an invitation, do touch.
disagreed if it weren’t for digital media I wouldn’t have learned what I know today
Libraries are a lot more than books though.
Library of things gang.
I borrowed a Theramin, garden weasel, and a circular saw all in the same week doing a backyard garden project (the theramin was for fun)
I’d be down with publicly funded digital libraries.
Many states have them in the US. If you’re here check and see if your state does. It’s free and beyond useful
Libby is amazing for anyone who hasn’t discovered it yet. It’s likely your library supports it.
Libby + State library card = access to everything it seems
I used to shelve books for a living. I just love being in libraries. I like how quite they are… I love that people there have a purpose and it is noble. I love how it is the number one weapon against fascism. I love libraries. It is no wonder why they are defunding them in the USA. We are a disgusting people. I live in the arm pit of the world.
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Furry pr0n digital data centres (non-AI) are culturally important too - and it’s just not possible to print out everything, there is way too much stuff.
Won’t you think of the poor furries?
Who do you think keeps all the internet infrastructure up & running??…that looks more like a half-price books than a library…
TBF, the video showcases many different libraries and bookstores.
Yeah, there are no call numbers. Seems to be a used bookstore.
edit: used book store? Wikipedia seems to agree with “Used bookstore”, but it’s not the bookstore that’s used, it’s the books…
Huh, that’s what my local library looks like. Without the text, obviously.
Weird. Mine has the text. It just floats there. It makes getting through that hall inconvenient but you get used to it
Bro. IDK about other countries, but In India, Library Owners have changed the definition of Libraries. Now it is basically a room with desks and computers where people come to study with their own study material instead of having their own collection of books, study material (neither physical nor digital). It is a nice place to study but it ain’t a library, it is just a study room for fuck’s sake.
Thats a bit sad.
No it is not. Libraries have been used for >1000 years to gatekeep information and education by kings and churches. Digital media has democratized this.
There really is no point in taking up campus space to store very expensive paper that is hard to find, and can only be accessed by one person at a time.
My university is converting libraries to study spaces. Many modern scientific journals are only digital.
“Libraries providing access to books is gatekeeping because only one person can check one out at a time. Removing books from libraries democratizes information.” –Dumbass
Where in India? I’ve never seen this in the South.
Pune, Mumbai, NCR, Jaipur. These are the places where I have searched for a library and found study rooms instead. Normal Libraries still exist but they are not doing well in Tier 1 cities.
Sheesh. You can always find books in a library in Chennai. In fact there are lending libraries where they only lend.
I visited Chennai Book Fair 2 years ago. Man they have a big reading culture. I loved it. We middies and northies are still stuck with cow politics lol.
Chennai also has a huge political book culture with a ton of Periyarists, Ambedkarites and Marxists.
I’m half-expecting to see a full-torso apparition in that photo. Maybe some symmetrical book stacking, like the Philadelphia mass turbulence of 1947.
“Get her!” 👻
Facebook tier meme
Why are you on tiktok if you hate datacenters?
Why be so negative? There’s plenty of that everywhere nowadays.
- This post is currently the #3 post for the week on this channel.
- I’m on TikTok because it has very large liberal ecosystem.
Hope you have a great week! 😃
Tiktok runs from a datacenter.
You’re the one spreading negativity. I work at a datacenter and I’m sick of this misinformation and hypocrisy.
Oddly enough, the people who are complaining the loudest about datacenters are the same people who are terminally online and would suffer mental breakdowns if we “stopped funding datacenters”.
Hyperscale data centers and the generally speculative rush to build data centers all over has jack shit to do with social media.
Social media is what started the datacenter rush.
Maybe, just maybe, AI should do librarian work? Big virtual library where you can just ask a question and instead of answering it AI just points you to category or proposes some specific books?
The present problems with AI/LLM are already apparent.
Imagine a library where the librarian assembles the book for you based on your reading history, the whims of the rich person that paid for the library chain, and corporation that wants you to stay engaged with their chain of libraries. The book is handed to you and it’s written to not offend you or be objectively critical of the subject you’re interested in (because if you are asked to be critical of your views you might be butthurt and not come back), and to align with your existing views. Interleaved in the pages are ads for you, too. Just like print magazines. The sources for the info could be compiled from anywhere, but who needs those anyway? Nobody looks at them. The Librarian is only as good as its programming, so every once in a while it’s just gonna make shit up and it definitely won’t criticize the methodology of its developers.
Every time someone asks for that same book it’s different, because it’s re-written for each individual based on their data-mined profile, their required adult identity proof to use the service, and their subscription information.
Or you could go to a public library, for free, grab two or three books on the same subject and compare different views thoroughly and see where the authors got their information from.
Are you a bot? You responded clearly without reading what I said.
AI hallucinating content - sure, terrible, big issue.
But AI just helping you find the content you want? You know, lige Google Search was supposed to do before enshittification hit.
Also - go to your local library and check what books/topics aren’t there. Because sure as shit not every library is some infinite magic space with all the books on all the topics.
TF you ask if I’m a bot for? I didn’t try to sell you the New ™️ Gemini ©️AI Patriot’s Library ®️.
Yeah, I over-wote a response. Try this: The librarian now hands you the print books it wants you to see becaue it gets a better ad fee for that one, lets you view them online with more ads, doesn’t tell you about well-reviewed books taking a contrary view or even objectively disproving your question, etc. and you still need to subscribe, provide adult ID, and end up having a digital profile with the service.
Sounds like average doctor in the USA, isn’t it? And it wouldn’t be too far-fetched for a librarian to prefer some books over the others.
If I looked for “well-reviewed books” I probably wouldn’t ask a librarian or generally a single fallible person, rather I would look for a repository of reviews for books.
It’s sounds like just a search engine.
LLM is pretty much just a text predictor, predicting next word, next sentence etc in the conversation.
Being a search engine sounds like an upgrade.
In majority of cases LLM is downgrade.
We’d still need librarians to do the work at the physical libraries, and they’re always going to be the better people to ask. They’re not just people who like books; there is a lot of studying and training to be a librarian - I know 2, and they’re both among the smartest people I know, and definitely the most well-read. I’d go to them for a book-related question before I do anything else.
It’s not as convenient as just typing something up online, but that’s kinda the point. Unchecked pursual of convenience is what got us here - do the tried and true thing that takes a bit more effort, and you’ll be surprised at how much better it works than the convenient option.
AI is theft. It is designed to dumb you down and make you passive or reactionary. AI is slop and I have yet to find a real purpose for AI. People think they lost their job to AI but the top 10% is the only ones spending any money. We are not on the spread sheet. Our economies are shrinking the wealth is being concentrated to the capitalist class and now we live in a age of brazen imperialism. AI doesn’t provide any meaningful value to the working class. It is a magic trick. Karl Marx was right. Chapter Thirty-Two: Historical Tendency of Capitalist Accumulation
I’m pretty sure it already does that
Looks like a DJ Shadow video clip.
No that’s kinda dumb. A digital copy of the book can serve so many people compared to one physical copy of the book. You have issues with how datacenters are used to exclusively serve capital interests.
No that’s kinda dumb. Libraries do so much more for communities than house physical books, and at the same time those important historical paper records and books need to be stored somewhere public and accessible. Digital records can be altered. Digital books can be altered. Physical is crucial.
I didn’t say I was against libraries. I just said physical media is subpar compared to digital media. I can give all my friends a digital copy of a book, while still having a copy of it, physical can’t beat that.
And yes libraries are great, not what I’m debating.
And so can physical books be changed, heard of editions and reprints? A physical book is only as good as what’s kept in circulation
Libraries do so much more for communities than house physical books
Can you give examples? (Just curious, I haven’t been to one in ages)
Libraries do so much that it’s difficult to express without leaving something out. As Shin said, they provide a “third place,” which is worth reading about if you’re unfamiliar with the concept. Briefly, humans psychologically need places to gather outside of home and work or school. Libraries are one of the few places left in society where a person can simply exist without being charged for the privilege. That alone is incredibly important.
Third places are essential for building real communities, and they cannot simply be replaced by billionaire-owned social media platforms. A real-life bulletin board or community events calendar does not have algorithms, sponsors, or an agenda to push. Libraries give people a physical space to connect with their neighbors and communities directly.
They also offer free classes on everything from filing taxes to gardening, crafts, and technology. They host community groups, events, nonprofits, support groups, makerspaces, and even tool or small appliance lending programs. They allow people to expand their horizons, try new things in a risk-free environment, meet others with shared interests, or simply receive support from their community.
Libraries also provide employment assistance, including resume building, printing services, computer access, and help navigating online applications. They regularly assist older adults trying to navigate phones, government forms, and increasingly hostile dark-pattern-filled websites. On top of that, they provide free internet access to people who either cannot afford reliable internet or do not have quality service at home. The internet, like knowledge itself, is an invaluable resource, and libraries help ensure equal access to both regardless of income.
They are also one of the few places where a person can privately seek information they may be too embarrassed to ask about openly or search for from a personally identifiable device. That privacy matters.
Libraries preserve local archives, history, and community knowledge as well. Keeping those archives public and physically accessible matters because physical records cannot be quietly altered or erased as easily as digital information can.
They are also among the few remaining safe and quiet public spaces for children. Libraries encourage literacy from an early age and provide access to books, ebooks, audiobooks, movies, music, and research databases that would otherwise cost individuals hundreds or thousands of dollars. They give curious people of any age the ability to learn, explore, and broaden their horizons. And despite what some people assume, not all knowledge exists online.
Even looking strictly at economics, libraries save communities money constantly. Instead of every individual person needing to buy every book, tool, printer, subscription, or educational resource themselves, the costs are shared publicly and everyone benefits. The money invested into libraries returns to communities many times over through education, employment assistance, literacy, civic participation, and even public health outcomes.
But beyond all measurable benefits, libraries make communities feel human. They are one of the last institutions built around the idea that access to knowledge should not depend on income. They create places where curiosity, learning, creativity, and simply existing peacefully are treated as worthwhile on their own.
Axing libraries to save a few pennies is not fiscal responsibility. It is a death knell for the community itself.
I agree with libraries, tho not what I’m talking about.
Thanks for the explanation! 🙂
Read about “the third place”
for one thing, they often host social groups, often around reading, but not only.
Why not have both?
Just cause I said I like hotdogs doesn’t mean I don’t like hamburgers
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Anyone can read a physical book. Digital books are gatekept behind devices.
Edit: I honestly can’t believe the replies I’m getting. Who knew people oppose physical books that have existed for hundreds of years? This is depressing.
Do you even pdf bro? Or epub? You know kindle but there’s a whole new world for you out there
Go ahead, read a pdf without a screen.
You know what is usually included in most public libraries and allowed to be publicly used usually free if charge? (it can vary from library to library)
Computers. The kind that can be used to access a vast digital library
Because the library might not have a specific book you’re looking for. Or the library might burn down and having non centralized rudimentary backups and archives of data, such as books, means that we can re-print and replace physical media that was damaged.
You can burn a book but if it’s digitally backed up and free to access, the content within the book is unburnable.
Anyone can read a physical book.
No. Some people were never taught to read. Books that aren’t in braille are gatekept from blind people. As well as giving you access to more content, digital devices can overcome these limitations.
Ebooks are by that logic also inaccessible to the visually impaired without further software. What is this shit comparison? You can’t be serious.
A book is also a device, just less complex. The proliferation of digital devices is widespread and resilient enough that needing one to access a book isn’t gatekeeping in itself. Especially since you don’t need a digital device to access a book, digital books aren’t stopping you from having physical ones. But it is a convenient, versatile and affordable way to gain access to more books than any traditional library could hold.
a book is also a device
No it’s not. By no stretch of imagination is a book a device. Physical books don’t require any extra purchases, and the information in them is inherent.
By no stretch of imagination is a book a device.
device noun de·vice di-ˈvīs
1 : something devised or contrived: such as
a(1) : a piece of equipment or a mechanism designed to serve a special purpose or perform a special function …
Are you honestly arguing that a book is a device like for instance a computer is? Or a mechanical lock is?
just go to the place that has book. Find book. read book. simple. A book isn’t a device. If i want to read something digitally, i need to have a device that is good to read.
just go to the place that has book.
Sure why not, just as long as you live next door to a vast library and it isn’t raining today, that could be a viable option. Or just keep a huge personal library in your own home. or…
If i want to read something digitally, i need to have a device that is good to read.
ah… there ya go
just as long as you live next door
Not everyone lives in the suburbs or the US or both.
raining today
Umbrella, raincoat, your own vehicle, Uber
keep a huge personal library in your own home
I wish I had a 1000 sq ft space just to keep books.
ah… there ya go
But I need to have an e-ink device for this. Reading on LED Screens is not that great for eyes. E-readers have their place when you are traveling or something but not when you’re sitting at home. If you like them as your primary then great for you.
Nobody is saying digital libraries shouldn’t exist. They should co-exist. And most of the times it is not going to be the primary reading medium for the majority. Open P&L of any publisher and you will see (if they categorize) physical books still account to over 80-90% of their revenues. Physical libraries are the most affordable and recognizable way to access literature and knowledge.
Let’s be clear, I’m not going to argue against the worth of physical books. I love books, use my local library a lot, and don’t own an e-reader. I’m only disputing the assertion that the need for reading devices means digital books are gatekept. e-readers and the like are widespread, reasonably affordable, and likely to become more so. Digital books are also accessible by other (not so ideal for reading) devices, which are even more ubiquitous.
It’s like saying that physical books are gatekept by the need for a reading light.Gatekeeping implies some exclusive access which is not generally available. Book knowledge was gatekept before the existence of public libraries, even more so before the printing press. Even now the accessiblility of physical books and libraries depends a lot on where you live. Digital information, by contrast, has become broadly available extremely quickly and will remain so.
Digital libraries are still libraries
Good thing many libraries nowadays have both. Also libraries offer much more than just books. My local library offers cool classes/programs for kids in the summer.
The only good data centers are not-for-profit ones.
What do you think I meant by relationship to capital?
Any cheap ereader suggestions?
I always end up not buying one because of the price and/or the size, if it’s mobile phone size, it feels just very very small (even a big phone like ~7").
Downvote because TikTok is bad
