Not that there’s anything wrong with people wanting to learn mandarin but I wonder whether this uptick in engagement with the Chinese world will just be a blip and soon people will get bored of it and look for more “Western” platforms again.
Like, when the enshittification of reddit and Twitter took root, you would also see very big numbers of users flocking to alternative platforms like Lemmy (like yours truly!) or Mastodon but in the end, after the initial novelty wore off, how many of those people actually ended up sticking around or moved on to something else after a short while?
My point is that it is still way too early to judge whether RedNote will become the next TikTok in the US, or whether this could be the start of a mass grassroots movement for American and Chinese people to get closer.
Shame it’s Duolingo though. HelloChinese and DuChinese are way better for actually learning the language.
HelloChinese is a little better on content and a lot better on not being an annoying ad machine.
Yeah good luck with this on Duolingo lol. I’m years down the line and also having studied full-time over there, still far from “fluency”.
I think it’s great for basic grammar and vocabulary. Pair it with a grammar text book, dictionary, and media in the target language (written and spoken) and you should be able to understand the language fairly quickly. If you can get conversation practice with a native speaker, you’ll learn so much faster.
As with learning anything, you have to commit yourself to using multiple resources. Duolingo has been a great way for me to pick up vocabulary. Do I use it for sentence structure and grammar lessons? No. But it’s a fun way to replace the monotony of flashcards.
Yes, as any resource it shouldn’t be discarded completely, but there are always much better resources out there which for me makes Duolingo a time waster. Even if I would start anew with another language. It’s an app made by a company who doesn’t care about learning or languages, they just want to make people to stay for as long as possible on the app and pay for stuff like to restore their streak. Especially now since they’ve started using AI to generate content
Duolingo is a game for points and badges. it’s not actually useful for learning anything.
I believe it is called a classical education
Firefly timeline!
FIREFLY TIMELINE!!
FIREFLY TIMELINE!!!
I guess it’s better than some alternatives, at least because we never found out what the Space Confederates were fighting for
I don’t get the connection between losing access to tik tok and starting a +20 years journey to learn chinese
I believe that a clickbait title about 400 idiot people starting the first lesson in Duolingo and then quickly quitting without deleting their accounts is the through line here.
“only idiots show interest in a second language” is a take for sure
The context of this bump is people being so enamored with tik Tok that they’re interested in a second language just to use a potential replacement.
You can be a dumbass but still be interested in a second language. That doesn’t imply everyone interested in a second language is a dumbass.
That’s very clearly not what they meant and you know it.
A small but vocal chunk of people moved to another Chinese social media app with the announcement of the TikTok shutdown. This app is mostly used by Chinese users unlike TikTok. The idiots are the ones trading one foreign monitoring app for another - one which doesn’t even primarily use the language they speak
Okay buddy 👍
Well, considering that I speak 4 languages myself, maybe that’s not the take I was going for.
It shouldn’t take quite that long.
Real anti capitalists learn Esperanto
Nah, they’d learn Toki Pona, because it’s an amazing interlanguage.
I’m no anti capitalist, but I also learned Esperanto a few years ago. But nobody really speaks it, so I switched to learning something a bit more practical (SO’s native language so I’m less helpless when we visit their country).
Есперанто товарищ!
May I ask why?
Because it’s a W language meant to foster international communication and understanding.
Sorry for my ignorance, what’s a W language??
W, like winner. It’s internet slang. It’s a winning language.
You sent me down this rabbit hole, you meanie.
Lol, I had never heard of that before. That’s awesome!
I was like “oh a programming language you can speak now I want to learn it.” 😭
Esperanton estas bona lingvo. Ĉu vi parolas Esperanton?
Jes. Mi lernis paroli Esperanton antaŭ kelkaj jaroj. Estas amuze, sed neniu parolas ĝin.
This Tiktok ban is going to make people in the US do what they never did before and learn a second language. 万岁
More like start learning a second language and give up after a week.
This may be a stereotype, but TikTok specifically caters to people with short attention spans.
Yeah learning to speak Mandarin is one thing but learning to read it feels fucking impossible if you don’t start young.
Step 1: Die
Step 2: Reincarnate in Taiwan (don’t pick mainland China like I did in my current incarnation)
Gateway learning.
I learned Spanish to write love letters in 2nd grade.
And now 30 years later, I know like a dozen languages at a basic level, but still good enough to be sent all over the world on business trips for free.
I wonder how many 7 year olds are picking up Mandarin to protest this tiktok thing.
什么万岁？
No one is learning any language using shitty Duolingo all they are learning is how to parrot useless phrases and vocab with no explanation on how to form sentences or actually use the language properly for themselves.
That depends on how you use it.
I use DuoLingo as daily practice, and I add a bunch of other stuff to it as well. I did really well learning Esperanto this way, and have learned a fair amount of Spanish and Korean as well. Generally:
- Duolingo for a couple weeks, blitzing as many lessons as I can
- Find lessons elsewhere (YouTube, books, etc), while using Duolingo for 5-10 min/day
- Read childrens books (look up everything you don’t understand) and watch children’s shows (write down what you don’t understand) in the language, and use that to review grammar and vocab
- Read the news in the target language, looking up unknown words
- Watch TV in the target language
- Finish up the Duolingo course while doing the above
Duolingo by itself won’t get you fluent, but it’ll teach you basic grammar (if you read the grammar notes), vocab, and build a habit of learning with a minimal time commitment. Use it as a sort of stretching routine before more serious study.
All this hatred for a tool that is bridging the gap between not speaking a language and being able to understand basic sentences.
Except for the fact that it is designed to keep you coming back and hopefully paying them for the privaledge whilst making people believe they are learning something useful.
It is in fact counter productive to actually learning a language properly. I used it for a year and a half trying to learn Spanish and in that time I never really learnt anything of worth. On top of that my native Spanish speaking girlfriend told me on numerous occasions that the things it was “teaching” me were flat out incorrect.
I learnt more useful language skills in a month on Busuu than I did in a year and a half using Duolingo. So yes there is a lot of hate because it wasted a lot of my time for absolutely zero benefit and in some cases taught me the wrong things so I had to go back and “unlearn” all the bullshit it constantly pushed to me.
It isn’t a tool to bridge a gap, it is a word game designed to get you addicted to “streaks” and then hopefully remove money from your wallet under the guise of teaching you something.
People that seriously want to learn a language should be dissuaded from using this trash app as it is only counter productive to the learning process, they should instead check out Busuu or listen to Language Transfer which is free and vastly superior!
I see what you mean, but I don’t think anybody should expect Duolingo, atleast in the early stages, to teach conversation. The streaks are just a way to keep people engaged. That’s the biggest issue in education, which is keeping people engaged even during the tough parts.
I do agree though. I use Duo as a method of practice side-by-side learning in an actual language school. My personal opinion is that nothing good ever comes of a single source. I always keep looking for different sources of information.
I also see how this might not be how other people function, so I don’t really see any reason to object to your point.
TL;DR - Fair enough. To each their own. Nothing is ever perfect and I agree that you shouldn’t charge money for something that isn’t “correct”. But for the most part, it isn’t worthy of hate as much as just distaste? Maybe there’s a better word for it.
I used Duolingo for a while (for French and Spanish) but it didn’t allow for progress at the rate that I wanted to go. Then I realized that it was holding me back by design, to keep me using the app regularly. I know people who have done well with it, but it wasn’t a good fit for me.
Once I realized I could just skip sections, my progress shot up.
I am admittedly salty about my own experience with it which definitely skews me towards the negative view of it, I just dont like to see people jumping on that app and thinking that that alone will see them through learning a language.
I do see your points of using it as a supplement to learning through other methods but also due to the fact that it taught me a few different things that were flat out wrong I just think that there are better supplementary learning resources.
Also personally I really struggle with languages and wasting so much time on that app really destroyed my motivation for learning the language in general and as such my initial momentum has gone and I haven’t really progressed at all recently. Engagement is important like you say and I dont think the streaks are a bad idea but the way they implement them is insidious in that it is all tailored to keep you in app and hopefully paying them IMO.
My initial message was more in disgust of the app as a whole, I wouldn’t go as far as to say I expressed hate otherwise I’d have used much stronger language but again everyone’s opinion on that line will be different. I just dont think it is good at all and if I can dissuade people from using it then I will. Maybe I should have put the alternatives I mentioned in the first comment to balance out the message but it is too late now :D
Yeah. That’s true. There’s definitely scope for improvement…
I dont think the streaks are a bad idea but the way they implement them is insidious in that it is all tailored to keep you in app and hopefully paying them IMO.
I mean, that is what all of these apps earn from anyway, so while not a great tactic for most apps, I give Duo the pass since they atleast deliver on what they promise, which is a step towards learning foreign languages.
My initial message was more in disgust of the app as a whole, I wouldn’t go as far as to say I expressed hate otherwise I’d have used much stronger language but again everyone’s opinion on that line will be different.
Fair enough lol. I get it. I have the same feeling for people watching dubbed anime 😭. I get why but still, goddamn it.
but it is too late now :D
😬 better late than never.
Off-topic : Chicken Little fan? Your username harkens to the old days.
I have heard of Chicken Little, is it an animated film or something? Anyway no, it is from the intro of Power Stone on the Dreamcast.
Oh… Yeah its an animated film where the literal plot is that the sky is falling. Pretty fun movie NGL.
I used it for a year and a half trying to learn Spanish and in that time I never really learnt anything of worth.
Might want to start with English first. (Emphasis mine)
I think it is you who needs to learn that in the UK we also use English and it is spelt learnt. Gilipolla
Go learnt some more and get back to the US speakers.
I found language transfer very weird as you start with way too much english and I guess you need to jump at least 4 hours to learn interesting things
I kind of see what you mean but for me I really liked it as I am not very good at languages at all, maths and science makes more sense to my brain.
I appreciated that they went through and made links with the English language based on the common root that they shared be it Latin or whatever. For me this helped me a lot to understand what was going on in the background of the language and how I could relate it to what I already know.
Everyone learns differently and so will find different methods effecrive. Duolingo was a lot better when it first came about but now it is all about getting people trapped in a loop of feeling like they are learning something when they aren’t so they can maintain subscribers.
I speak 4 languages, and when I need surface level basics for a trip, I’ve found the Duolingo helps get the wrote memory part of see a shape, hear a sound.
For actual terminology or grammar, it’s OK, but it doesn’t deserve the hype it gives itself. I can make up my own lessons with Google Translate better than Duolingo.
Agreed. I just use it as a supplement to my actual learning.
And it’s so fucking slow. Like yeah I remember the word for man and woman please stop asking me to click on it especially with the image next to it…
Its called spaced repetition. Its helpful for people to remember something over repeated learning.
If you find it too easy, you can choose to jump ahead or find better alternatives.
I know spaced repetition, but it’s too much repetition and not enough space. The jump ahead feature is bad because you just do the quiz twice until you success then you jumped without knowing previous stuff and you’re stuck with once again slow minded repetition just that it’s now a more “advanced” vocabulary
If you fail the quiz, don’t retry that one.
I can usually crank out a segment in a day if I feel like it’s slow. Since I also use other resources, I’ll skip ahead periodically.
If Duolingo is your only resource, you’ll have issues. You should be exploring other resources as well and using Duolingo as a way to get in some practice on the go. Most of my Duolingo use is on the toilet or while cooking, and I set aside time for more serious study.
Fair enough. I have benefited from Duolingo as a practice tool. But I do see Duo being tedious for people who truly wish to progress faster.
i tried learning spanish with it, now i know how to order a hamburger with cheese but it won’t teach me much else… just the same fucking sentence over and over again. every now and then it drops in a new word and then we’re back to the hamburger thing.
Hamburgesa con quesa? Muy bien
Isn’t Mandarin grammar super easy? It is relatively easy to speak, definitely less so to read/write.
Easy or not that doesnt excuse Duolingos lack of explanation of any rules or concepts present within the language you choose to learn.
IDK how long ago you used it but I use it to practice Chinese (in addition to having a tutor) and it does have an entire tab about grammar and vocalization, it just doesn’t always show you those lessons early on and focuses on vocab. Actually I think it has one of the best pinyin “tone” lessons I have seen.
I don’t speak Mandarin so I just share what I’ve heard from a friend who does. Supposedly there are very little rules to explain and other than writing system and how exotic it is, it’s one of the easier languages to learn. All of this sounds perfect for Duolingo. Obviously once you get the basics there’s no other way than immersing yourself in a language but that first hurdle should be easier to overcome.
I dunno, I found it helped me with German a bit.
Geez, calm down hater
Hate is justified as it turns people away from actually learning a language
Yeah, isn’t that great!..
你们还要学中文？
老子一出生就已懂中文了。
你们已经迟到了，party 早就开始啦！
Just as I finally see Chinese culture gaining more global cultural relevance— and it had to be in order to bypass a ban of an intrusive app.
Gotta rise up to that Firefly/Serenity lore.
the app wasn’t banned, the company refused to split American operations off.
… And because they refused, is now banned.
So, yes it was.
no, they were given the option.
- split into two companies
- close down operations in the US
that’s pretty cut a dry they chose to end operations in the US. The US didn’t ban them.
#2 is a ban.
I’m really not sure why that’s so hard to understand. If I said, “sell me your house or get out of town,” how is that not me running you out of town?
☝️🤓 Well, actually…
Removed by mod
so when other companies that refuse to adhere to labor laws in the US move their factories to other countries, are they banned?
Removed by mod
Can anyone explain to me what makes TikTok and now this RedNote so much better than the other short form options (YT, Insta… others) that people think learning a completely different and unfamiliar language is not only viable, but the best option?
I want to learn another language for travel purposes, which to me makes sense. I’ve never had the itch to learn one so I could use a social media platform.
It’s not even to go for a TikTok clone, it’s more to do with the avoidance of Meta products because they’re following Twitter and allowing toxicity and constantly pushing ads and influencers and MAGA. Someone decided hey it would be funny if we just installed an actual Chinese app just out of spite since we’re effectively getting censored anyway so getting censored on a chinese app to blow it all up would be funny. It was supposed to be a meme.
Turns out the chinese people on there were mostly excited to get so much attention and an opportunity to talk with americans. Loads of kids there practicing their english, and people felt so welcomed they’re trying to learn the language and everything’s subtitled in chinese+english because they want to communicate back and make their content accessible to them out of respect. There’s plenty of content there to teach chinese to the newcomers too. Bunch decided to stay because it’s just pretty nice since the lack of politics and “sensitive” topics it’s a very positive and welcoming platform for once.
The whole thing is a completely accidental cultural exchange on a massive scale, and a very rare case where americans and chinese people kind of can talk directly like that. Both sides gets to peek at the other’s lifestyle and bond over common things instead of hating on eachother. They aren’t learning chinese to use the app, they’re learning it to communicate and exchange with the people. The chinese government seems unconcerned and welcoming as an extra fuck you to the US.
The algorithm is surprisingly not really biased nor pushing propaganda. It’s happily suggesting me openly queer content (with a lack of hate comments and americans being called out for their hateful comments), they have gun content, they have a car scene, they have their thirst traps (with respectful comments), it’s really not all that different than us and not the propaganda machine the US is so concerned about. It kind of leans more left than TikTok if anything, which makes the ban even more questionable.
I do wonder though if some of those people are just ccp agents making content. Operating anything in China you’re required to be overseen by CCP so I highly doubt that they don’t carefully sift through comments.
I do find it funny that people would rather pick chinese spyware cause our spyware has too much political leans and censorship.
I’d be surprised, unless they somehow managed to train 9 year olds into tricking americans into teaching them english on a live call all basically overnight, at the scale of several thousands of them. If that’s chinese propaganda then man they sure have heartwarming propaganda. I’m sure there’s inherent bias due to culture, it’s still China. But I doubt they were prepared for this at all.
It also was never really picked with the intent to switch, the meme was to just download it and browse it a bit so it goes at the top of the downloads chart and beats Meta. The happy accident is the part where people browsed it and figured it’s pretty nice on there and turned the whole thing into a mass scale cultural exchange.
The irony in all that is I haven’t found anything sketchy in it yet. On Android they’re not asking any non-standard permissions, much less than TikTok or even YouTube both of which ask for accessing connected biometric/fitness devices. REDnote asks for the device’s ad ID. All the sensitive ones are runtime permissions it doesn’t ask until you ask for it like access the camera to post a video. I’m sure they track everything you do in-app like everyone else, but nothing that gives me the ick having installed. Facebook Messenger in comparison wants full access to telephony and SMS services, your contacts, start background service on boot, bluetooth and NFC. I haven’t pulled out WireShark yet but from a basic Android permission perspective it doesn’t have access to much of anything to begin with.
It’s literally just a random chinese app intended for mainland China, and that’s kind of what sticks about it: it’s just not really that evil. There’s no ads, no influencers, no celebrities, those are all bannable offenses even. It’s just… kinda nice and nobody expected that at all.
Here’s a snapshot of the evil propaganda they’re so afraid of: https://www.max-p.me/p/2025/rednote/rednote-snapshot.mp4
Their daily life looks just like ours, similar hobbies including cars and guns and tanks and cat ears.
I wouldn’t overthink it. It’s just a youthful rebellion/protest thing. Old people banned an app young people like and young people were like, “Ok, fine. We’ll use a different app, assholes.” And they found one even more Chinese just to be obnoxious.
But to answer your primary question, Instagram is a bloated app with a terrible algorithm made by a garbage company owned by a garbage person. But just as important, Instagram is also where TikTok users’ parents are. Youths don’t want to hang out with friends where their parents are watching. Hell, I’m middle-aged and I was annoyed when my mom followed me on Instagram. Like, “Stay on Facebook, mom. That’s the boomer app.”
I’m sure almost every TikTok user is a YouTube user too. But YouTube Shorts isn’t the same as TikTok. Shorts are basically a way for established creators who make longer, professional videos to make little casual ones between their main video releases. It’s not a drop-in replacement for TikTok. The vibe is different. (If Shorts had been released as a totally separate app with a separate algorithm, it’d be a drop-in replacement for TikTok but they just duct taped it onto YouTube proper.)
Plus, the data and national security excuses were always horseshit. Congress was trying to protect American dominance in social media and during the debate, members of Congress said their issue with TikTok was that it didn’t have an Israel boner. https://forward.com/culture/688840/tiktok-ban-gaza-palestine-israel-antisemitism/
Forward is a publication aimed at a Jewish audience, for the record, so that’s not some antisemitic conspiracy theory.
They said a 216% spike
That could be an extra 15 people
sick society
Can you just use duolingo as a translator?
No.
